Hilarious Scene - Fantastic Character

[trakand_01]

I love Setalle Anan.

 

I'm reading CoT, Mat has gone into the wagon to see Tuon as Luca's circus is packing up, they're waiting for Thom then they're off.

 

He's just had to flatten himself to avoid a flying cup, and Tuon has snatched up the chamber pot.

 

Selucia takes it off her, and this to start with made me laugh, Tuon is so powerful but Selucia takes it off her like you would skillfully take a fragile ornament out of the hand of a toddler; quite obviously its an action Selucia has had to take on many an occasion.

 

Setalle, who up until this point has been quietly sat doing her needlework, not really paying much attention, calmly reaches up above her head (I have the image of her continuing with her needlework with her free hand, hardly taking her eyes off it), and pulls another cup off the shelf, hands it to Tuon and murmers "we have plenty of these".

 

I had to have a good giggle - the mental image of Tuon, bottom lip out, Selucia the hard-worn mother and Setalle Anan the mischievous granny, replacing a valuable weapon with an invaluable one as if to say "I'm not saying don't throw anything, just dont throw that. Of course I dont expect you not to throw anything!!"

 

;D

[Guest leebarr]

That is funny. Most scenes with mat and Taun together are

[aevogt]

I'm not a big fan of Satelle.  She fawns over Tuon, knowing what she is and how she has treated women who can channel.  If Satelle had any sense, she should have taken the first opportunity that presented itself to put Tuon down for a little dirt nap and let the Corenne tear itself apart the rest of the way.  Forget convincing her, put her away.

 

What else can you expect from a Brown 'eh.

 

I'm also pretty damn disappointed with Teslyn, Edesina and Joline.  They barge into that wagon and let Tuon and Selucia get the drop on them.  They should have walked in, tied everyone in there with flows of air (except Mat, who would have been fending off a pair of Warders who don't like him in any case) then turned her over a chair and beat a little cooperation into her noble...keister.  They were all stupid. Isn't Joline Green?  Battle Ajah my ass.  You'd think Teslyn, of all people, would at least have been on her guard, she knows they have a'dam in there.

 

I hated that whole scene.  it was ridiculous.

 

Don't walk in making demands.

 

Walk in making promises as to what the future holds.

 

In case you haven't figured it out, I'm not a big fan of Tuon either.

 

 

 

[Snowy Dawn]

``I'm not a big fan of Setalle.  She fawns over Tuon, knowing what she is and how she has treated women who can channel.  If Satelle had any sense, she should have taken the first opportunity that presented itself to put Tuon down for a little dirt nap and let the Corenne tear itself apart the rest of the way.''

 

Setalle has her reasons but we are never told them (she is ex-Aes Sedai, after all: since when do they tell anyone their reasons :-) :-) I don't think she fawns over Tuon so much as that she is trying to educate her. In any case, as she tells Mat she came along on this journey to mediate between him and the three Aes Sedai, but also, no doubt, to help him get the three north of Seanchan held territory to freedom. It is Mat, IIRC, who sticks her into the wagon with Tuon and Selucia, since he, correctly as far as I can see, thinks her best fit to keep an eye on them.

 

But even Joline and the other two don't try to kill Tuon; once they learn that she is a high lady among the Seanchan, they try to persuade her to lead her people back over the Aryth Ocean. This ends up with Mat freeing the three after Tuon had put them temporarily back in A'dam, and then with him burying the damn' things (in night in the rain, no less). See the last part of the chapter ``The Short Path'' in <i>Knife of Dreams</i> (p. 239 to the end of the chapter.

[Luckers]

Yeah, I think Setelle with her non-confrontational method is achieving far more than anyone else ever has. Whether her ability can be healed or not, i think she will play a very large part in the reformation of the Seanchan.

[trakand_01]

Also, Tuon has been completely calm througout (after her initial try-to-kill-mat-with-hands-and-feet fight but to be fair, she was being kidnapped) so why should Setalle become agressive or violent towards her? Would we think more of her (or the Aes Sedai) if she was un-provokedly agressive towards Tuon, who has shown nothing but calm resignation to her situation? I certainly wouldnt, I would actually lose a little respect for a woman who would verbally or otherwise attack someone who was themselves a prisoner in every sense but being physically chained up.

 

I think Tuon sees it as an adventure. She's not concerned that they will be looking for her, indeed Mat says she seems completely unconcerned that Suroth is probably considering suicide for the shame. I also think Tuon has become very very skilled at not showing emotion when things upset her - she said herself there have been many attempts on her life, her siblings many have been assassinated. She needs to stay calm, sharp and not become completely irrational.

 

We have seen that Setalle is very skillful at simply... melding into the circumstances. Making the best of her situation. She was once Aes Sedai, she was burned out and sent out of the tower. She went to Ebou Dar and despite not being Ebou Dari, took on all of their customs, married, had children, ran an establishment with fantastic skill, and now she finds herself in another situation, and once again she is making the most of it. "What cannot be changed must be endured" is a Lini saying and I think Setalle has similar thoughts.

 

 

[Snowy Dawn]

``Whether her ability can be healed or not, i think she will play a very large part in the reformation of the Seanchan.''

 

Hm... Suppose Damer and Nynaeve do figure out a way to heal her. I had visions of Tuon insisting that she come with Rand to their meeting to negotiate a truce (and Mat, also, yes?), only to have Setalle walk in with a brown-fringed shawl and great serpent ring on. That would be a shock for Tuon. Even if she did not wear the shawl or the ring, Tuon, if close enough, might be able to sense that Setalle is now able to channel. BTW where did the Setalle was Martine Janata of the Brown theory come from? All the FAQ says is that ``it has been suggested that...'' It would be appropriate of course given Elayne's interest in objects of the power that the most enthusiastic previous student thereof in the recent past should turn up---and if it is her, wait until she finds out about Aviendha's talent :-) :-)

[trakand_01]

I'm not sure that Setalle could be Healed. It's not like severing, being burned out. When you are severed, the stub is still there, it just needs something to bridge the gap, but when you are burned out... the link would have to be completely re-built.

 

I guess if Flinn could work out exactly where the link needed to go from and to, he could perhaps build a new one, but that is like saying that ANYONE could be 'healed' into being a channeler.

[Predic]

setalle is the perfect aes sedai (well ex-aes sedai anyway)

  the problem with most of the rest is that they have grown so used to the power of saidar that they can no longer connect with the realities of the real world

 

I.E. they only see what they want to.

setalle on the other hand has been stripped of her power and had to live as a normal person. And she has combined her real world lessons with those of the tower, a very unique and widely experienced point of view (especially if she gets healed )

 

with the upcoming re-introduction of setalle into their world (assuming she is renitroduced) she will, i think, become a uniting force between the tower and the rest of randland

 

she will, post the last battle help the tower return to the true meaning of aes sedai as it was before the breaking, by helping to cement the lessons the tower is now painfully learning.

1. they are not all knowing

2. they are not - and should not be all powerful

3. to copy spidermans uncle with great power comes great responsibility (for its moral use anyway)

 

pre the last battle setalle will a way of convincing tuon that aes sedai should not all be collared and to cement a lasting peace between randland and the empire.

 

 

p.s. tuon can't sense setalles ability to channel because she can't channel (just like someone who could learn but hasn't) because she was burnt out

 

[trakand_01]

I look forwards to any meeting between Setalle, Cadsuane and Sorilea.

[Predic]

definatly its almost a pity they will prob all agree with each other(after some intense staring )

 

cause if they didnt it would be some battle for dominance.

 

i can see setalle as casduane's replacement (casduane has to die soon  doesn't she?)

since like casduane one of her most important life events has been extremely humbling

[Luckers]

I'm not sure that Setalle could be Healed. It's not like severing, being burned out. When you are severed, the stub is still there, it just needs something to bridge the gap, but when you are burned out... the link would have to be completely re-built.

 

Mmm. It's a long lasting discussion, but since Cyndane was healed, and Moiraine almost certainly must be (for ascetics) it seems that it is indeed possible. And requiring nothing more than the normal method since the Aes Sedai that healed Cyndane would know nothing else, and that worked.

 

BTW where did the Setalle was Martine Janata of the Brown theory come from?

 

Its almost certain. Martine was burned out roughly three years prior to Setelle's appearence. Martine was mentioned directly after meeting Setelle, Setelle shows a reverence for ter'angreal unlike any Aes Sedai known, and Martine was obsessed with ter'angreal.

 

Its pretty much a given.

[Tel Janin Aellinsar]

Yeah, I think Setelle with her non-confrontational method is achieving far more than anyone else ever has. Whether her ability can be healed or not, i think she will play a very large part in the reformation of the Seanchan.

 

At the risk of sounding repetitive, I'll mostly agree but add my two cents.  I think that Setelle will have to be healed in order to have the type of reforming effect that I think she will.  I'll briefly (or I'll try to be brief) explain my logic: 

 

Tuon has no idea that Setelle ever could channel as of yet (or at least I don't think she does, I'll confess I have only read CoT 5 times and KoD 3 times, all the others I'm more reliable on having read the rest of the series (Books 1-9) at least 10-12 times-I've lost count-since I started reading them in 2001)  Point being I do not think that Tuon knows that Setelle was Aes Sedai, and it will certainly shock Tuon when she learns that someone she likes had the ability to channel, but I do not think that this will be enough to evoke a massive change in Tuon's or the Seanchan's worldviews. 

 

Tuon's view of women who can channel is colored by her Seanchan upbringing.  The Seanchan view of channelers is based on what Luthair and his followers found when they reached the east coast of Seanchan 1000 years ago (and I also assume that Luthair inherited his father's hatred of Aes Sedai as well).  Luthair and his army found a land where Aes Sedai openly vied for individual power, with nothing like the three oaths to provide any sort of public reassurance or the euivalent of the white tower to act as a governing body of the Aes Sedai.    Remember, the first a'dam was actually created by one of the so-called Aes Sedai.  If I was raised in a culture that enslaved all channelers because of their history of inherent untrustworthiness, I would expect all channelers to sprout a trolloc's horns if they ever got off the leash.  (Of course, the value of the damanae to the Empire provides a strong impetus for the imperial family to perpetuate this stereotype because, let's face facts, without the damanae the Empire would lose its most valuable resourse.  I remind everyone that Suroth was terrified of this very result, which is one of the reasons she kept the fact that the sul'dam could channel a secret.)

 

Sorry for the diversion, but I'm just trying to say that Tuon was raised in this culture and buys into it.  Even in KoD when she talks about rejecting the part of herself that can learn to channel because she chooses not to touch the power because it would be wrong.  (I do not remember the exact quote and my friend is just finishing his first read of the series and he has borrowed my copy of KoD, so I do not have it to verify the exact words)  While Setelle is still burned out, Tuon could rationalize that Setelle in fact changed and became the woman that she likes/respects only after she lost her ability to channel.  The only way Tuon's affection (for lack of a better word) for Setelle can have the kind of impact that I and apparantly Luckers are envisioning would be for her to be healed and prove to Tuon that she is who she is in spit of her ability to channel rather than because she could not.

 

NB.  Luckers, I'm not trying to put words into your mouth, but from your post I assume you mean that Settelle will be an important (if not the most important) factor in reforming the Seanchans' view of channelers.  If I misunderstood, I apologize.

[aevogt]

The power of the empire is based on collaring women who can channel.  Unless they are crushed, every woman in the westlands who can channel will wind up wearing a leash.  With the possible exception of the Aiel. 

 

The Tower can't fight them.  What exactly about being collared places them in danger?  That means no One Power.  They'll wind up damane and the empire will spread unless, as Rand attempted, they are driven back by force.

 

Tuon is the Empress.  Do you think she's just going to change her mind and decide the free the damane because she likes Satelle Anan?  I highly doubt it.  She's of the Blood.  If she frees the damane, her entire nation collapses and she knows it.

 

It won't end until every Suldam and Damane are severed from the source or bound on the Oath Rod. 

 

Job done and dusted either way.

 

 

[Luckers]

The power of the empire is based on collaring women who can channel.  Unless they are crushed, every woman in the westlands who can channel will wind up wearing a leash.  With the possible exception of the Aiel. 

 

The Tower can't fight them.  What exactly about being collared places them in danger?  That means no One Power.  They'll wind up damane and the empire will spread unless, as Rand attempted, they are driven back by force.

 

Tuon is the Empress.  Do you think she's just going to change her mind and decide the free the damane because she likes Satelle Anan?  I highly doubt it.  She's of the Blood.  If she frees the damane, her entire nation collapses and she knows it.

 

It won't end until every Suldam and Damane are severed from the source or bound on the Oath Rod. 

 

I think you see this too one dimensionally. The Empire's facing blows to come on this issue--the revelation about sul'dam will shake them, and their own upbringing will work against them--after all, if you can't trust women who can channel, how can you trust their control to women who can channel? Then we have the sul'dam Elayne convinced could channel turn up demanding to be made damane, having two previous sul'dam openly and notoriously seeking to learn to channel, and more than probably to become Aes Sedai. And what of cimple assosiation--the Seanchan will fight alongside Aes Sedai and other channelers in Tarmon Gai'don, and however much you hate a person, fighting beside them builds a bond.

 

Yes i think Setelle will play an integral part, but that part will be bringing Tuon to see the realities of the Empire as they are, not in making her decide to change the Empire. The change will already be occuring--is already occuring.

 

And to be clear i don't believe it will happen in the scope of the series. I believe this social reformation is what RJ spoke of when he spoke of writing an outrigger series dealing with Mat and Tuon ten years after Tarmon Gai'don.

 

But furthermore i think your dire comments about the Empire continuing to sweep out are impossible at this stage--even assuming they have the strength and the will left after Tarmon Gai'don, too many female channelers know how to travel and disguise their ability and invert their weaves, and too many other such things for the Seanchan to ever be truly successful this side of the Ocean.

[Bob T Dwarf]

All they've gotta do is to keep on doing what they're doing.

 

Dose every woman with forkroot.  If she can channel, no matter if she's got that ability totally shielded, she will pass-out.

 

The North and the East must be as one.  The South and the West must be as one.  Whether they conquer it or whether Rand just cedes the territory to them, they do seem destined to increase the territory they hold.