Damane?

[aevogt]

Can a Damane wear the bracelet of another damane?

 

If not, why.

 

Why can't a Damane remove the collar from another Damane?

 

 

[algspkr]

Can a Damane wear the bracelet of another damane?

No

If not, why.

An a'dom creates a link.  The person with a collar is guiding and the person with bracelet is following.  You can't lead and follow at the same time.

Why can't a Damane remove the collar from another Damane?

Wish I knew.

[Rahlian]

Why can't a Damane remove the collar from another Damane?

Wish I knew.

 

I do not know the specifics of why, but they cant. When Eggy was a damane, i believe she tried something similar with a fresh caught damane, but it only ended up woth them both writhing on the floor. Probably is something like why a damane can't move the bracelet of her leash.

 

Although, why can't a damane put the bracelet of her collar on?

[aevogt]

I was wondering that as well.

 

Probaly has to do with not being able to move the bracelet.

 

Guiding and leading are different words for the same exact thing.

 

 

[cheyjade]

When Egwene is in her room at Falme channeling at the collar, she thinks about when she tries to touch the collar with any intent of removing it.  It cramps up her hand. Trying to carry the bracelet makes her vomit. I assumed that trying to remove ANY collar would give them cramps.  To try to remove them as hard as the two sul'dam were in The Great Hunt, it may very well make them violently ill.

[trakand_01]

I always thought it must be something similar to requiring obedience. If the sul'dam says "you will not remove the collar" or "you will not move the bracelet" and they simply cannot do it.

 

I'm pretty sure if it could be done, Moghedien would have done it.

[trakand_01]

What I would be interested to learn, however, as an after thought, is;

 

Can the collars be used on men?

Can men wear the bracelets?

What is the effect of the collar and bracelet on someone who GENUINELY cannot channel (as we know that the common belief that the Sul'dam couldnt channel is wrong)?

What would be the result if someone tried to put the collar on Mat?

 

We know that he can handle the collars, but what if someone put one on him, and tried to channel at him, or if he wore a bracelet, and a woman the necklace, and she channeled?

[Rahlian]

The collars cant be used on men, nor can they wear the bracelets. the Empress toys with Lords by making them wear the bracelets and somethings they die painfully. Its prolly the men who could learn to channel.

 

Im pretty sure there is no effect on a non-channeler - see above

Nothing would happen to Mat, non-channeler and medallion negate any effects

[Luckers]

The collars cant be used on men, nor can they wear the bracelets. the Empress toys with Lords by making them wear the bracelets and somethings they die painfully. Its prolly the men who could learn to channel.

 

Indeed, it is.

 

Im pretty sure there is no effect on a non-channeler - see above

 

No effect on the non-channeler. The damane on the other hand experiences painful cramps, the same as if she had tried to move the bracelet herself.

 

I do not know the specifics of why, but they cant. When Eggy was a damane, i believe she tried something similar with a fresh caught damane, but it only ended up woth them both writhing on the floor. Probably is something like why a damane can't move the bracelet of her leash.

 

Unfortunately, no, this did not happen. However given the sul'dam practice putting two damane in the same room (Heartfriends, its called) its clear that a damane cannot free another damane.

 

Can a Damane wear the bracelet of another damane?

 

Unknown. The normal formation of links would suggest not--yet that is not reliable as this link already evades the normal rules in a number of ways. For instance it offers no protection against burning out, includes none of the strength of the leader of the circle, and enforces various rules. So yes, it is unknown.

 

 

[Rahlian]

Well, i am of the opinion that a damane cant wear the bracelet of  another damane ofr a number of reasons.

 

1) If a damane could put the bracelet on, it stands to reason she could take the collar off of the damane whose bracelet she was wearing.

 

2) In a normal circle, you can't be in two seperate circles, one you lead ant the other you don't AFAIK. I vaguely seem to recall something about this being said in the bubble of eavil that strikes the Salidar Tower (dunno which book). Then again, this is all vague recollection, so I could be way off on this.

 

3) I belive that it is highly likely that trying to move/remove another damane's bracelet/collar would have painfull consequences, for much the same reason as stated above. Of course, Seanchan are taught that damane are not human, and have to be collared for the betterment of mankind, and most Seanchan damane have been indoctrinated so they belive that they must be collared and therefore would never attempt to excape.

[algspkr]

I do not know the specifics of why, but they cant. When Eggy was a damane, i believe she tried something similar with a fresh caught damane, but it only ended up woth them both writhing on the floor. Probably is something like why a damane can't move the bracelet of her leash.

 

Unfortunately, no, this did not happen. However given the sul'dam practice putting two damane in the same room (Heartfriends, its called) its clear that a damane cannot free another damane.

I believe that it is a Bethamin PoV where she is thinkning about why she fled at Falme.  She said that she came upon Rena and Seta where they were left by the wonder girls despritaly trying to remove their adoms and being covered in vomit for their trouble.

[Luckers]

Let me preface by saying that i dont know if a damane can wear anothers damanes bracelet--i think its probably unlikely, but i suggest neither. So im pretty much only commenting on the issues.

 

1) If a damane could put the bracelet on, it stands to reason she could take the collar off of the damane whose bracelet she was wearing.

 

The strictures on the a'dam are clearly linked to intent. Therefore whatever keeps a damane from taking off another damane's collar would not stop her from wearing the bracelet--just perhaps not opening the breaclet.

 

2) In a normal circle, you can't be in two seperate circles, one you lead ant the other you don't AFAIK. I vaguely seem to recall something about this being said in the bubble of eavil that strikes the Salidar Tower (dunno which book). Then again, this is all vague recollection, so I could be way off on this.

 

Elayne removes the bracelet because she is not sure what the effect would be of joining a circle when she is already linked to Moghedian, but that is as subjective as our own arguments.

 

The problem is that whilst you are correct about normal circles, the a'dam circle already defies what occurs with normal circles so that becomes a moot point.

 

3) I belive that it is highly likely that trying to move/remove another damane's bracelet/collar would have painfull consequences, for much the same reason as stated above. Of course, Seanchan are taught that damane are not human, and have to be collared for the betterment of mankind, and most Seanchan damane have been indoctrinated so they belive that they must be collared and therefore would never attempt to excape.

 

Mmm. All of which is true, though i would point out that the consolidation ended only two hundred years prior. Before that there must have been situations of marath'damane being leashed who did not suffer from the indoctrinations of the Empire.

 

 

A fact occurs to me that i would point out. In tGH we hear of an account of Sherraine Sedai being overwhelmed by six damane, and it seems to be suggested that those damane were linked when they shielded her--certainly Ryma collapsed as if she were being used against her will. Beyond that in KoD we witness two women leashed by a single sul'dam... Tuon. Again, varience in the obviously suggesting linking pattern.

 

Ultimately i simply think we don't know enough to say for sure... though again, if pressed i would probably say that its not possible.

 

I believe that it is a Bethamin PoV where she is thinkning about why she fled at Falme.  She said that she came upon Rena and Seta where they were left by the wonder girls despritaly trying to remove their adoms and being covered in vomit for their trouble.

 

Ah, good catch. Much more solid than my Heartfriends theory, lol.