Why did Halima kill those Aes Sedai?

[RobertAlexWillis]

The Cabriana connection is the most obvious one, but there are alternative, if weaker, reasons for each to be removed. The fact that Kairen was to be involved in the plan to is a sort of reason to off her, and Anaiya was one of the few Aes Sedai who really believes Egwene is a Dreamer. Egwene's recent warning about her Dream involving a Seanchan attack was all but brushed off by the Hall. Anaiya may have served to convince some of them to take it seriously.

 

 

That said, those are pretty weak reasons. The connection between these Aes Sedai and Cabriana Mecandes remains the likliest reason they were selected. But Halima had to be considering offing a few of the Sisters anyway, just for the psychological effect.

[cannon]

I think the main reason those Aes Sedai were killed was because of Halima's fear of the Black Tower joining with the rebels and uncovering her.

 

Once she decided she was going to kill some Aes Sedai to drive that wedge and sow distrust, Anaiya and Kairen were obvious choices because of their relationship with Cabrianna and the possibility of them discovering something.

 

I think that if she had planned to kill them all along, she would have done it earlier. And I don't love the idea of one of them just talking with her randomly and catching her in a lie.

 

The issues of Anaiya believing Egwene is a dreamer and Kairen being part of the Harbor plan were just icing on the cake. From Halima's perspective, it couldn't have worked out better. She gets rid of the two Aes Sedai who could "out" her, and disrupts Egwene's plans.

[RobertAlexWillis]

And I don't love the idea of one of them just talking with her randomly and catching her in a lie.

 

I hate to put it in these terms, but that fact that you don't like it doesn't make it any less valid as a potential occurence ...

[cannon]

And I don't love the idea of one of them just talking with her randomly and catching her in a lie.

I hate to put it in these terms, but that fact that you don't like it doesn't make it any less valid as a potential occurence ...

 

Pardon the euphemism, I misspoke. What I should have said was "I don't think the idea that there was some off-screen conversation in which Halima let something slip and was caught in a lie by Annaiya is as plausible as the known threat of the Black Tower"

[Bob T Dwarf]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm...

 

Is there, in fact, any threat to the Dark from the Black Tower? The general consensus has been that the BT is firmly under the thumb of Taim, and Taim is firmly in the DO's camp. That he's set up his own little conclave of Dreadlords.

 

If anything, insinuating the Black Asha'man/Dreadlords into the good graces of the Salidar Aes Sadai would put far more of a monkey wrench into the works than keeping the two groups separate.

 

If keeping them apart is truly why Jordan had Halima kill those two, then it's just another inexplicable example of bad guy stupidity.

[cannon]

Is there, in fact, any threat to the Dark from the Black Tower?

 

The threat lies in some innocent Asha'man and/or DF moron giving away Halima's secret and compromising her position.

 

Anaiya was killed the very night the SAS decided to approach the Asha'men, and the method of death was most definitely designed to make them distrust male channelers. To me, that really suggests they want to keep those groups apart, and that was the reason for the killing.

 

And if Halima isn't the one torturing Sheriam, then someone else is definitely set on those two groups not getting together as well. Sheriam pretty much freaked out when the idea was brought up and voted through.

[Bob T Dwarf]

What leads you to think anybody in the BT knows Halima's secret?

 

The other 'gar was the only one other than the DO, Shadar Haran, and the other Forsaken who knew she/he even exists, and he's been dead since the Cleansing.

 

Are you suggesting that the 'gars run around blabbing each other's secrets to all and sundry?

 

How would some random Asha'man as far distant as the BT know, not only that the Dark has an agent inside the SAS, but exactly who that agent is? If the Dark's operational security is that lax, then they do take the cake for stupidity.

[Gentled Ben]

Are you suggesting that the 'gars run around blabbing each other's secrets to all and sundry?

 

How would some random Asha'man as far distant as the BT know, not only that the Dark has an agent inside the SAS, but exactly who that agent is? If the Dark's operational security is that lax, then they do take the cake for stupidity.

I agree with Bob here. The other FS don't even know for sure that Cyndane is Lanfear, and Balthamel was almost as secretive, historically, as Moghedien. From Aran'gar's POV during the Ansaline Gardens coffee break, it would appear that Graendal is hip to Aran'gar's previous identity (because she tells Graendal something like, "C'mon, you know I've never been one to form alliances"), but if so, I'm pretty sure that Graendal is the only one who knows, as Osan'gar is dead. If the other FS are in the dark about it (no pun intended), why would the BT have any information about it?

[Barnabas]

i dont think cannon meant the secret that theyre a forsaken reborn, but a woman who can channel saidin. i personally think halima offed the aes sedai to throw suspicion onto the black tower, esp the way it was done, but the people chosen (anaiya and kairen) had the reasons of potentially realising she didnt know cabrianna, and then for anaiya throwing a spanner into the seanchan "sneak attack" (whether this happens or not is debatable i know) and for kairen her role in sealing Tar valon, both of which are issues for other forsaken (semirhage and mesaana). what im saying is aes sedai were killed for a larger purpose, but i think the aes sedai who actually died had fairly select reasons to be killed. sorry for being a touch long

[cannon]

What leads you to think anybody in the BT knows Halima's secret?

 

Barnabas is correct. The secret I was talking about is the fact that Halima can channel Saidin.

 

The BT doesn't need to know she's forsaken, they don't even have to have any prior knowledege of her existence. All they have to do is show up while she's channeling and say "Hey, wait a minute".

 

Eben already did just that in Winter's Heart, so Halima knows it's a potential problem.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Unless Halima is stupid enough to channel in plain sight of one of the Asha'man, what does she/he have to fear? If there are Asha'man about, male channeling that occurs out-of-sight would just be taken as one of the others, and nothing at all unusual.

 

If Halima finds it necessary to channel in plain sight, then she/he is busted anyway and it's already time to get outa Dodge.

 

Anaiya dying to keep the possibility of Egwene being a real Dreamer from being taken seriously may have some real merit. It seems to me that Egwene's headaches were all about Halima compelling her to forget the dreams she was having. Or report them to her but forget she'd had them and thus deprive the SAS of that foreknowledge. She wouldn't want anybody wondering about why the dream reports had stopped coming.

 

Kairen being killed to throw a spanner in the attempt to block the harbor may be equally valid.

[cannon]

Unless Halima is stupid enough to channel in plain sight of one of the Asha'man, what does she/he have to fear? If there are Asha'man about, male channeling that occurs out-of-sight would just be taken as one of the others, and nothing at all unusual.

 

Well we read in KoD that her channeling during the Sitter's meeting pretty much gave her away. Maybe she was afraid of something like that?

 

However, even if she wasn't particularly afraid of the Asha'men (which I will conceded you may be right on), I still don't think the Shadow wants those two groups of channelers to get together.

 

You made the point about Taim being a DF, but how do we know the sisters are going to choose Asha'men from Taim's pool? Based on the numbers of men loyal to Logain, it seems like about a 50/50 shot. It seems like a poor idea to bolster your enemy's ranks in such a way.

 

To me it makes more sense to keep those groups opposed to one another, and continue sewing seeds of distrust.

 

It seems to me that Egwene's headaches were all about Halima compelling her to forget the dreams she was having. Or report them to her but forget she'd had them and thus deprive the SAS of that foreknowledge.

 

Really? I always felt that Halima was causing the headaches in the same way that Semihrage would cause pain in her victims. Then Halima begins massaging Egwene and stops giving her as much pain, thus making her invaluable to Egwene because she can "help" with the headaches.

 

Compulsion is an interesting idea, but seems overly complicated for what Halima was actually accomplishing. If Egwene was under compulsion I would think she would be doing much more detrimental things and acting differently.

 

You're probably going to counter with "well that would give it away", but I'm talking on a smaller scale. Egwene has shown time and again that she's not under anyone's thumb, and that she is Amyrlin, and in control. If she was under compulsion, would she have invoked war powers? discovered how to make cuendillar? brought in all those novices to swell their ranks?

[Bob T Dwarf]

Egwene, like Rand, has succeeded by being unpredictable.

 

I don't think anybody on the Dark side thought for an instant that she'd be capable of coming up with any of the things she has. The Sisters and Sitters surely didn't and they know her far better than the bad guys.

 

If she is being Compelled, it's a subtle Compulsion. Enough to cause her inner conflict and thus bring on the headaches, but not enough to alter her outward manner or appearance to others.

 

My guess is Halima "healed" her headaches by reinforcing the Compulsion each day. "Forget your inner conflict. Relax and accept what you must do."

 

Egwene is just a little too independent and single-minded for that to take very well, so she subconciously continued to fight to break free. Oops, another headache.

 

Maybe I'm giving Halima too much credit, but it seems a total waste of resources just to have her/him there to cause a little incidental mischief and rub Egwene's temples.

[Gentled Ben]

Maybe I'm giving Halima too much credit, but it seems a total waste of resources just to have her/him there to cause a little incidental mischief and rub Egwene's temples.

It's more than he accomplished in TEOTW. Some of the FS, like Semi or Rahvin, have done damage on an obvious scale, by disrupting or destroying kingdoms, and others, like Aginor/Dashiva, don't seem to do much at all. Be'lal sucked, and so far, so has Moghedien. In fact, both Moghedien and Asmodean HARMED the DO's cause more than they've helped it. Lanfear didn't do much, other than helping Asmo betray the Shadow, and we don't know what she's about as Cyndane, so realistically, given the track record so far, disrupting Egwene's headaches and spreading terror throughout the rebel camp with the murders of the two sisters is still enough for Aran'gar to draw her paycheck.