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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

What in Randland....?


Brooke
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Does any one other than me have questions that cannot be answered by the books written so far and doubt we'll ever get the answers to?

 

Like...

What in Randland are the people East of the Aiel Waste doing? We hear about "fantastical" creatures and good that come out of their lands, but why aren't they being affected by this shadow...

 

Or What in Randland happened to turn the peaceful people into the Aiel? We know there was some great sin...but I've never heard of so many people going from completely peaceful to complete and total warrior society. Maybe that happened during the breaking though. If a lot of them were split up the ones that were in the three-fold land could have gone one way while the others in the softer land could have stay with the Way of the Leaf.

 

Who in Randland actually build Rhuidian, and when? We get part of the story, but who put the cloud (yes I know it's not really a cloud per se)cover on it and decided to turn it into what it is today?

 

Where there always 7 Ajahs? From the portal stones we saw the 7 colors...where all the Ajahs co-ed or were some just for women and some just for men...what in Randland did the Red Ajah do before it was a beehive of man hating fools? I bet they used to be hippies... ;)

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We get some info about Shara. They buy people as slaves, they do not allow outlanders to have any diurect contact with them, or even see anything other than special cities, they produce silk...

 

How the Aiel turned into the warriors they are today is quite well exlained when Rand is in Rhuidean. Basiaclly, they felt forced to go that way in order to survive.

 

We can only guess about who put the cloud at Rhuidean. My guess is the Aes Sedai we saw with the Jenn Aiel who started to build the place. And I do not think Rand is completely wrong when he thinks to himself that the place could have been built just so he could find it.

 

The 7 Ajahs is quite new, the number was set around the time the White Tower was founded.

In the AOL, Ajahs were nothing like they are in the 3rd Age. They were groups organised for specific reasons, who dissipated once the goal was achieved.

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Well apparently no one cares much about the Shara. Majsju you didn't tell me anything I didn't know. I want to know what in Randland are they doing? It's like they are all sitting around picking their noses completely oblivious to the problem every one else in the world including people that no one else except for maybe the sea folk new existed until they tried to take over land they have no right to any more. RJ didn't spend all that much time talking about these people. Just rumored about them and what not, but that's all he did to the Aiel before they really started showing up. Maybe something spookey will happen before the last battle and they will finally join the rest of the world in the fight over the shadow...but I'm thinking they will just obliviously let the last battle go on and stay in their cities. Maybe I'm too curious about them.

 

And where did either of you get the information about the Ajahs in the AoL. From what it sounds like there were a lot more AS way back when. THey had to have some way of organizing themselves. Maybe they got to remain citizens of their home land and only had to Travel in for special commity meetings. But the seven colors had to of still held some signifance, or whoever built the Portal Stones just thought it dressed the tall pilars up nicely.

 

Did we ever learn what happened to that city though? Did the Aes Sedai with them turn into the wise ones or did they leave and rejoin the wetlanders?

 

Why in Randland is Bella (the slowest horse out of the Two Rivers) still around? You would think Mandarb was keeping an eye on her or something.

 

I guess this thread was more about what people were hoping to get answered in the last book, what little mysteries are still unexplained (the little ones not the big ones) that may or may not make it into AMoL.

 

Like...will we ever find out what the ter'angreal that novices enter is really supposed to be used for? Easy way is send Aviendha to look at it...will it happen though...probably not.

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I would like to see more of the Sharans too. It would be interesting. Though I doubt they will be suddenly brought into the last book.

 

One thing you may or may not know about them is that it is believed that during the Trolloc wars they were "infected" with the Shadow. As I do not have my books with me I cannot give you the exact quote or which book it is in.

 

I would also like to see the song be rediscovered or become of some use, but I doubt that will happen as the Nym will have to be recreated again for the song to have any effect.

 

I am also interested in exactly what the Ogier are. Are they there own race or were they also constructs of the Power (as the Nym were)?

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what are the sharans doing? they're in the midst of a civil war caused by the declaration of rand as the dragon reborn and (from what i can remember)the poltical turmoil caused by the kidnapping of their equilevant of an emperor and empress by graendal.

 

ogier are their own race.  it is believed(or is it fact?) that they came from another 'world' through the portal stones.

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If I remember correctly from the BWB, Shara has never been touched as much by the Shadow as "our" lands, which allows them to keep contact with others to a minimum.

And that they are clouded in mystery does not necessarily mean RJ ever had any real plans to use them in any major way. It can just as well be mostly a matter of worldbuilding, like the Land of Madmen. But who knows, we did get a cameo appearance of a Sharan in KOD, perhaps we will see more in AMOL. If nothing else, it could be a pool of channelers for the Shadow, as they are quite outnumbered in that department.

 

The Ajahs in the AOL were explained in the BWB. As for the seven colours at the Portal Stones, those were not built by Aes Sedai, they predate the AOL.

 

That Bela is still around...Well, she does belong to one of the female main characters. And since neither Egwene, or anyone else who has borrowed Bela, is very likely to ride headfirst into battle, Bela is not very exposed to any immidiate danger. Of course it helps that Bela can channel ;D

 

The Ogier are a real race, brought to randland through the Portal Stones.

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    I am curious about all those things and more and we can debate this until the cows come home, but we won't know for sure untill we get our bloodthirsty hands on AMOL. I hope we get most of our answers, better yet all, but if we don't the way I look at it, is these questions were there to keep our interest. And we can debate this further after the next book is released. Not trying to be offensive to Brooke, and I know it's fustrating as Hell, but sometimes we have to be patient. We may be pleasently surprised, I hope so.

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For the record, I had like 1200 words of response typed out, but I highlighted it and copied it in case clicking "Insert Quote" erased it when I clicked it.  It didn't, but I accidentally did when I copied a section of the quote and could no longer paste my giant response.  So, in retaliation against my own stupidity I'll be doing slightly shorter answers.  They're all backed up by The World of Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time(which everyone should have!). Some of what I say has already been said... I just like being thorough(sometimes).

 

What in Randland are the people East of the Aiel Waste doing? We hear about "fantastical" creatures and good that come out of their lands, but why aren't they being affected by this shadow...

 

They were hit in the Trolloc Wars but very, very few of them admit it. We know they were because the Aiel know they were. Also, Graendal kidnapped the Sh'boan and the Sh'botay, so there's another hit from the Shadow.  There's probably a lot of hysteria and fighting going on inside their lands, but they would never let any outsiders know.

 

Or What in Randland happened to turn the peaceful people into the Aiel? We know there was some great sin...but I've never heard of so many people going from completely peaceful to complete and total warrior society. Maybe that happened during the breaking though. If a lot of them were split up the ones that were in the three-fold land could have gone one way while the others in the softer land could have stay with the Way of the Leaf.

 

They all followed the Way of the Leaf, some split off after having used weapons sort of on accident(they were forced out and shunned for breaking the Way). More and more people joined them to protect the Jenn Aiel(those who had not resorted to violence and were still pledged to peace in any circumstance).

 

Later, after the Jenn had settled in Rhuidean and the rest had moved on, all but the Jenn Aiel had forgotten the Way of the Leaf ever existed.

 

Who in Randland actually build Rhuidian, and when? We get part of the story, but who put the cloud (yes I know it's not really a cloud per se)cover on it and decided to turn it into what it is today?

 

The Jenn Aiel and their resident Aes Sedai began building the city of Rhuidean almost as soon as they arrived, mostly from the memories the Aes Sedai had of the World and its cities prior to the breaking. They even planted the last chora tree there(as you may remember, no city is really a city without a chora tree).

 

The Jenn and their Aes Sedai then built the ter'angreal used to test Wise Ones and Chiefs(it preserves their rich history and would someday mark the Dragon Reborn). Afterwards, when they knew that they were not long for their world, they protected Rhuidean itself by emplacing a dome of mist to hide it's existance from the world outside. The Aiel helped by killing any outsiders that tried to enter it.

 

Where there always 7 Ajahs? From the portal stones we saw the 7 colors...where all the Ajahs co-ed or were some just for women and some just for men...what in Randland did the Red Ajah do before it was a beehive of man hating fools? I bet they used to be hippies... ;)

 

The seven Ajahs were formed after the Breaking, after the formation of Tar Valon and the White Tower. There were originally over 12 White Tower Ajahs, though they had not begun calling themselves such.  It was after the election of Elisane Tishar as Amyrlin Seat that the seven Ajahs we know today were formed(or at least cemented in history)- by her seven closest advisors(apparently they were the most powerful color-affiliated sisters, so their respective Ajahs grew and lasted).

 

That means, of course, that the hunting of male channelers had already begun, so the Red Ajah most likely always were "man-hating fools." :)

 

Also, Portal Stones predate the Age of Legends, so there's the chance that in another Age, there were also seven Ajahs like "today". Who knows, but I don't think RJ was so big a fan of coincidence to exclude the possibility.

 

Hope I helped. :)  And get yourself The World of Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time! It r awesome. 300-ish pages of info and illustrations on just about everything you'd want to know and slightly more. 15 USD, I think.

 

Hope I helped.

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Guest The Thin Inn Keeper

They all followed the Way of the Leaf, some split off after having used weapons sort of on accident(they were forced out and shunned for breaking the Way). More and more people joined them to protect the Jenn Aiel(those who had not resorted to violence and were still pledged to peace in any circumstance).

 

Later, after the Jenn had settled in Rhuidean and the rest had moved on, all but the Jenn Aiel had forgotten the Way of the Leaf ever existed.

 

To elavorate a little, from memory... I think the first use of weaponary had to do with a group of men going after a member of their family who had been kidnapped(?). I also seem to recall that there's a reason why the Aiel hate the sword. I think it was because someone in the group that started using weapons saw that, while the sword was only used to kill, the spear can be used to hunt and therefore was more useful as a tool/weapon. i.e. if you were skilled with a spear you could do more than kill. Might be totally off track here.

 

The seven Ajahs were formed after the Breaking, after the formation of Tar Valon and the White Tower. There were originally over 12 White Tower Ajahs, though they had not begun calling themselves such.  It was after the election of Elisane Tishar as Amyrlin Seat that the seven Ajahs we know today were formed(or at least cemented in history)- by her seven closest advisors(apparently they were the most powerful color-affiliated sisters, so their respective Ajahs grew and lasted).

 

That means, of course, that the hunting of male channelers had already begun, so the Red Ajah most likely always were "man-hating fools." :)

 

Also, Portal Stones predate the Age of Legends, so there's the chance that in another Age, there were also seven Ajahs like "today". Who knows, but I don't think RJ was so big a fan of coincidence to exclude the possibility.

 

I've always seen Ajahs as being akin to political parties and their formation as follows:

 

The AS form the White Tower following the Breaking. Now, some sort of concept of grouping by colour had existed in the past, ie. before the AOL, as evidenced by the portal stones. As AS politics get back into full flow once the WT has been up and running for a while, they start to form what are essentially political parties, identifying themselves with the colours of the Ajahs. Perhaps at the beginning the colours didn't mean anything, but over time they became associated with the political agendas of the groups. eg. The group of AS who advocate fighting the Shadow, bringing justice to lawless areas and generally opposing the unopposable, choose green as their colour. As time goes on, anyone who shows similar charecteristics gets pushed toward the Green "Party", you know, "they're the ones for you." Over time, this solidifies into set stereotypes, which ensure that the Ajahs remain fairly constant in their make-up and outlook.

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Few tidbits to add.

 

I believe, though I am unsure, that is was an RJ question of the week where he explained that the Ayyad were blamed for the disappearance of the Sh'Boan and Sh'Botay, and either before or after this attempted to actively seize control. The Ayyad are Sharan channellers.

 

Shara is fighting an "n" sided civil war, where [a lot]<[n]<[infinity].

 

The transformation of the Aiel into fighters is extremely well-documented in the Shadow Rising. Shortly, if you're a pacifist hippy in a post-Apocalyptic Mad Max world, everyone's just going to take your women and your stuff. Then they're going to laugh at you, and take your stuff again.

 

A few hotblooded young men tried to steal their sisters back, and accidentally killed. They were cast out, but followed the Jenn, protecting them and stealing back from those who attacked their brethren. They were what Aram needed to become, a kind of society of Warders/Protectors. Overtime, those Jenn who lost loved ones increasingly turned to them, and/or joined their tribes, until they outnumbered the Jenn.

 

Other splinter groups include (probably) the Kaensada hillmen in Seanchan (the Aiel-colored People of the Great Lizard, or some such, who have an involved honor code involving service to worthy High Ones and wear Aiel mullets), the Amayar (who follow the Water Way), the Tinkers (who kept the first covenant {the Way of the Leaf} but broke the second {guarding the *angreal}, and the Jenn. Since the Aiel were apparently recognized in part by their "racial coloring" in the AoL, it's possible to speculate that all people with their coloring are descendents of those who stole Aiel women (such as the Arafellins).

 

In the Age of Legends, an ajah was a political voting bloc formed around an issue- an issue driven lobby group, basically. During the Breaking, ajahs became permanent roving "bands" of Aes Sedai who took in and trained young girls. The seven surviving Ajahs come from the seven key groups that formed the White Tower, and the Tower's government reflects this confederation government, with all the Ajah secrets et al.

 

Historically, the "purposes" of the seven Ajahs make sense, given the Breaking.

 

Grey- Preserve civilization, keep society together by keeping the cohesive groups in contact.

Yellow- Preserve civilization, Heal the damages done by the Breaking (the Yellows aren't a useless group at all if they also originally specialized in animal, plant, and planet Healing)

Blue- Preserve civilization, correct the slide of society into barbarism (Justice now!)

Brown- Preserve civilization by preserving knowledge, especially of the One Power, as it's in danger of being lost, to rebuild later.

Red- Preserve civilization, stop the madmen!

Green- Preserve civilization, finish the War of Power (the Shadowspawn were to some extant *driven* to the Blight, they didn't vanish after the Sealing).

White- Figure out just what the hell happened with the Tainting and the Sealing, I believe. I've also seen it put forward that they originally tried to achieve the emotionless perspective of the Pattern to decipher the KC and permanently defeat the DO.

 

As you can see, the Whites aren't the cool kids.

 

EDIT: BELA.

 

Bela is very symbolic throughout the books.

 

Most people don't seem to appreciate that RJ describes clothing, horses, etc., as incredibly important symbolic elements, nearly as important to the story as the Rand/Sammael/Asmo-as-Sun God, Lanfear/Egwene-as-Moon Goddess imagery.

 

Bela is used for some kind of analog to humility.

 

When Egwene was summoned, as a common criminal (for the wording is the same) after admitting her shame to the Wise Ones, she rode Bela to Salidar.

 

Siuan now rides Bela, whenever she is forced to confront her lowered station.

 

Egwene rode Bela to her humbling capture, as I recall, as well.

 

Conversely, Egwene rides a glorious horse when she is Egwene as Amyrlin, much like Rand rides Tai'Dashar (Glory). When Rand is being Rand, in between his moments of glory (between sunrises as Sun God) he rides Jeade'en. I'll be shocked if the series doesn't end with some form of Rand riding to a farm somewhere on Bela, perhaps with Egwene knowing the horse is gone and keeping her silence. Rand and Tam, after all, were originally the same character- the scarred soldier returning home from the traumas of war and seeking a normal life.

 

When we meet Lan and Moiraine, Lan rides the powerful black war-stallion Mandarb (black, color of powerful, destructive, masculine saidin) and Moiraine the delicate white mare Aldieb (white, color of precise, enduring, feminine saidar- Aldieb can match Mandarb step-for-step, after all).

 

Choice of color and grandeur in clothing is also extremely important- Rand in particular is fascinating in this regard. When Rand unleashed his attack upon Rahvin, he did so at noon, wearing red with gold thorns- the sun and sunbeams, balefire as clothing.

 

There's also the book cycles you didn't ask about, where the books featuring Sun God figures and Moon Goddess figures find success in alternation- it's not for nothing Rand's "great appearances"- the Crescent of Tear (where he "eclipsed" Moiraine, Lanfear, Egwene, etc.), Rhuidean where he became He Who Comes with the Dawn, and Al'Cair'a'hien'allen, Hill of the Rising Sun, are all in the East. These cycles are also reflected in his clothing- he wears primarily black during his periods "voyaging in the Underworld" - Far Madding, visiting Andor when Elayne was in her full glory, incognito amongst the rebels, recovering in Tear after the Cleansing (the great "sunset"). Clothing, choice of horse, these are very interesting things to follow.

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Well apparently no one cares much about the Shara. Majsju you didn't tell me anything I didn't know. I want to know what in Randland are they doing? It's like they are all sitting around picking their noses completely oblivious to the problem every one else in the world including people that no one else except for maybe the sea folk new existed until they tried to take over land they have no right to any more. and rejoin the wetlanders?

 

 

This, unfortunately is human nature. How many people step in to stop a fight on the street? "Not my problem, not affecting me." Is the mentality that many people take. To look at it in modern terms, take Iraq. (I'm not talking 'should we or shouldnt we', personally I dont think Blair had much choice in the matter, I just wish he'd told us the truth.) The US, the UK, Canada, Australia, a couple of other European countries, but how many other countries got involved? And why should they? Its not their war.

 

If the shadow is not affecting Shara, and the Sharans have very little idea of what is happening, then why should they intervene or come to Rand's aid? He has sent no emmissaries to them, and vice versa. The Dragon is nothing to Shara, apart from telling us it is there, we really NEED to know nothing more. It is there, but the Shadow doesnt stretch that far.

 

As for Bela, in joking terms she is invinceable, but in reality, she's not a warhorse. Apart from the odd skirmish, she's never been ridden into battle, and has pretty much always been kept safe in a stable block somewhere. There's been very little opportunity for her to be killed. And when Egwene, riding her, was in danger, she was also in the presence of Rand, Mat and Perrin - you've got to appreciate the ta'veren effect, along with the fact that Lan was protecting them.

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Well you guys are just no fun. Apparently you have no unanswered questions. I guess I should read this BWB and then I will have no unanswered questions.

 

Unanswered questions?

 

Try, "Who killed Asmodean?" or "Is Verin Black Ajah?"  ;D

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Not at all, that's the beauty of the forums; it's physically impossible to fail at any thread, it just cannot be done because no matter what your opinions are, what questions you ask, either you will gain confirmation or agreement from other people, you'll learn something you didnt know, other people will learn something they didnt know, or you'll encourage people to think about things they hadnt previously considered.

 

What I find fascinating is the little details that each individual person picks up. I'm absolutely positive that we each know one tiny little thing that no-one else has noticed or picked up, even Luckers or RAW, wherever he may be.

 

I hope he's ok (RAW). If he isn't, I'm annoyed - he could know who killed Asmodean...

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There's also the book cycles you didn't ask about, where the books featuring Sun God figures and Moon Goddess figures find success in alternation- it's not for nothing Rand's "great appearances"- the Crescent of Tear (where he "eclipsed" Moiraine, Lanfear, Egwene, etc.), Rhuidean where he became He Who Comes with the Dawn, and Al'Cair'a'hien'allen, Hill of the Rising Sun, are all in the East. These cycles are also reflected in his clothing- he wears primarily black during his periods "voyaging in the Underworld" - Far Madding, visiting Andor when Elayne was in her full glory, incognito amongst the rebels, recovering in Tear after the Cleansing (the great "sunset"). Clothing, choice of horse, these are very interesting things to follow.

 

I would also like to add the Prophecy (or viewing/foretelling, can't remember which) of "Twice dawns the day of the last battle" and that Lews Therin was also Lord of the Morning.

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Yes, Rand was born to Shaiel, actually Tigraine Mantear, on the slopes of Dragonmount during the Aiel war. Tam found him there.

 

The prophecy says something like "Born of the ancient blood, raised by the old blood", referring to Aiel blood and (presumably) the blood of manetheren.

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'infected' with the shadow??  i'm not sure what you mean.  sharans deny that they ever invaded by trollocs during the trolloc wars(HIGHLY improbable - its believed that lying to outsiders is part of their culture).

 

That's what it said in the book, "infected", I'm pretty sure anyway. I'll look for the quote and give it when I find it. It could have been a POV though, so not necessarily true. I myself am not entirely sure what it means either but Shara does seem to have a bit of the "Aridhol" mentality to it.

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I believe that the Aiel were more or less created from the Traveling people in order to stand guard over Rhuidean.  This would ensure that the power items would be available and protected for Rand when he needed them.  They would be there for him to find and no army would be strong enough to fight their way in and take them. 

 

I do not believe that they were sent to the Three Fold Land for punishment but rahter they are there for the purpose of safe guarding items of power for the coming battle.

 

 

 

 

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    To Brooke, I agree with Trakand 01 that even if you think it may be a stupid question (I think that alot about mine.) we wouldn't be on this site if ALL of the questions were answered. I definetley agree with you in asking the little questions. Obviously the big questions will be answered, so we get a chance to debate among ourselves the little ones. If they don't all get answered, then you get the priveledge of putting your own answer in if you can't get a better answer from someone else. Keep Asking!! It makes us think more and we definetly need more thinking in this world!

 

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There is only one 'rule' on these forums (apart from the ones about not posting duplicate posts etc) that we have to abide by in order to have a successful time: if someone doesnt agree, take it in good faith. There have been lots of arguments over the past few weeks which all bases on either different interpretations of the same thing, or different opinions.

 

Keep on with the little questions though - it stands to reason that eventually we'll either answer them or cotton onto something much larger that we hadnt seen before  ;D

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