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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Re: Wheel of Time Movie?


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I think that the movies should last for about 5 Hours each. That way it would have a better chance of doing the books justice. But hey that's just me I want to hear what you guys think! You might think 2 or 3 hours or heck you might not want them to make a movie so there would be no chance of ruing the books.

 

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Yeah I clicked 5 hours in the poll, but there id so much stuff in those books I'm not sure 5 hours would do. LotR was much smaller and even at 3.5 hours they cut alot out. I think they would have to break each book down into several movies maybe like three 3 hour movies per book or two 4.5 hour movies. This would put the amount of movies at 36 or 24, I certainly would see them all as I would love to see the WoT brought to life. Those making the movies would love it too because of the devoted fan base that ensures a good turnout, so more money in there pockets. The actors would age quite a bit though, I myself could withstand this, they could make a younger actor look older, then when he was 30 years older or how ever long it took to get to the end of the series they could always make him look younger. Another alternative would be to changout the cast once in the middle of the series, maybe with a poll put online to get peoples opinions on who they should switch them to, I could also live with that.

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If someone were to try to make films out of the whole series the actors would all be geriatric by book 6, and it would take a vast mountain of cash. The commitment in time and resources for a consistent product would be astronomical and completely unprecedented. The plot would be altered by the inevitable script compromises (most of the secondary plots and characters would vanish mysteriously), then by the inevitable marketing compromises (more romance, no crazy Rand, only one wife, etc…). Either you’d need to pare away the plot until you had one, maybe two, definitely no more than three 2 hour films, or endure an endless succession of directors and actors and scriptwriters, all with different points of view and ideas about the source material. Jackson barely managed to pull off LoTR (which is much, much shorter), barely, and still the studio releases aren’t very coherent unlike the directors cut which runs to something like 12 hours, and even that doesn’t touch anything but the main plot points.

 

If you wanted to do this for the screen, big or little, you’d be better off in the anime/animation world, which would probably be much more loyal to the books, and could be done with consistent direction by a much smaller group of people, at a fraction of the cost. A major plus would be, you wouldn’t have 10 Rands by the end, or even worse, a 45 year old Rand pretending to still be 20.

 

Personally, I feel literature is a different medium that film. Why does the world need another bad fantasy film adaptation? We’ve got the books and we can all read.

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I think it would be nice to see a Wheel of Time fime. However i'm one of those guys that sits in the theater and picks apart books turned to movies like no other. So the only way i would be happy would be if the used the actual books as the script. of course hat wont happen. Also i would much rather see a live action film but i dont think it is feasible to do it corecttly. An anime version of the books would be possible but i think it would be a little wierd seeing as in my head i se real people not cartoons. Either way it is done I dont think it could be done in a movie. To be done correctly it would have to be an incredibly long TV series.

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Guest Dreadlord

5 hours being the biggest option is shocking. I have heard that a book by a certain author people arent very  fond of here (Terry Goodkind) is being made into a TV miniseries. Wizards First Rule will aparantly have 20 (ish) episodes, and Wizards First Rule is a story in itself (the next book is a spin off with the same people).

 

Imagine one of the Wheel of Time books being put onto TV, whether a film or TV series. If they were going to put EotW on TV they would have to agree to all of the series seeing as EotW doesnt end the story, or even end part of it. It is just a waypoint between books. Wizards First Rule is a story on its own, which is why they could make a TV series out of it. If the Wheel of Time was made there would be at least 200 episodes, each an hour long I think, personally I think it would be too big a project for anyone to do it properly. Plus theres the question of how often would they play episodes. If it was 200 episodes (which it could do easily a lot more than) they would have to show an episode a day to get it done in less than a year, and I doubt whoever made it would have enough money to pay for the broadcasting. Not unless it was a major company doing it

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Adaptations are rarely good, but we live in an age of multimedia. People like pictures, always have. People long to hear a physical voice put to ideas, stories. We may often find that after reading a book, there is an urge to experience that book which we've come to love, in a different way. Some move on to audio books.

 

Then it goes from there. Some want to hear the audio books with a full cast to do the voices of all of the characters. Sound effects to go in the background. Illustrated interpretations of the scenes...We may squabble over the details, but everyone can appreciate an honest attempt to capture a scene from the books in a picture.

 

Hell, I often search youtube to see if anyone was daring enough to do a little amateur theater interpretation of a scene as I've seen done for other stories. No matter how cheesy it is, I still enjoy the fact that there are people out there who love the books enough to do something creative and artistic that's within their means to do.

 

That said, I have been, in my free time over the last year or so, been working on a script to film the eye of the world. Mind you, I know very little about writing a script, but I find its relaxing just as hobby to work on things like this regardless of the chances it would be put on screen or published or whatever. The rights ultimately belong to the Rigney estate, so I wouldn't make a profit from it even if I was looking to do so.

 

I find it a little frustrating though when someone expresses an honest desire to see the book in another form of media, say visual/film and then there's the inevitable percentage who shoot it down because they're "purists" who think it's a travesty to taint the books by representing the story in a graphic form.

 

It's simple: Everything is impossible until someone does it. That's a big theme in the books too. There's always some Aes Sedai or Forsaken or some lord or scholar who says, "But that's impossible! No one has done such a thing in (blank) Ages, years, centuries...ever."

 

And then someone like Rand is like: "Well, I just did it. Sorry to shake your cage so much, but I had to change the water out."

 

Lord of the Rings was impossible to do and despite what some may think of the result, it was still done with a whole lot of work and care put into it. True, they left out a lot but then again they put in a good deal that we might never have thought possible until Peter Jackson broke the mold and negotiated a landmark triple film adaptation deal.

 

If we can think outside of the bounds of conventionality, some pretty astounding things can be accomplished.

 

I'm pretty sure we've all heard the story of how RJ's series grew from an estimated 6 novels into what it is now, the most massive, epic world ever put into print. All in a straight shot storyline with one book leading directly into the next with incredible cohesion. I hardly think he sat there with his notes thinking, gee, I can't finish this all in 6 books the way I want, but I better do the conventional thing and wrap it all up in a neat bow. That ought to appease the distribution AND the fans.

 

Look, this story is ready made to be put on film. It is very cinematic. The attention to detail is such that anyone who looks at these books can almost draw the clothes these people are wearing, just from memory. The big obstacle is the size of the story. Big deal!

 

You're telling me you can have around half a dozen different series dedicated to Star Trek spanning over 40 years, around a dozen movies or so over the last 30 years all based on what was probably one of the hokiest genre concepts ever? I mean, I like the series as much as any casual observer would, but let's face it. When it first started out it was basically bad costumes, cheesy acting and William Shatner having sex with as many intergalactic humanoid females in go-go boots that he could find.

 

I mean, it's pretty much making something out of nothing.

 

I think some people believe that making a movie out of wheel of time would be making something INTO nothing.

 

Hey, this is a labor of love. If you wanted to adapt the story, you'd have to love it. It's too massive, too complex, too impossible to even attempt, unless you lived and breathed this story.

 

I think anyone who attempts to adapt the story deserves a chance if they have it. It's not an easy thing to do. I've been working on my script on and off with the free time I have for over a year and I've not even made it out of the Two Rivers yet.

 

Perhaps I'll post up a sample if anyone wants to read a partial draft. I have The Eye of the World in ten episodes planned out. The first and the last episode would each be around an hour and a half while the rest would be about 55 minutes, kind of following the model for an HBO series like Rome or The Wire. In that, I think this story could be done in like fashion, 10-13 episodes dedicated to one book or maybe condensing two books or parts of books together. The series would work in seasons. So, perhaps 5-6 seasons in as many years. Depending on the budget and on the contract, you could convince the studio to release and film some seasons back to back and release them in alternating seasons, cutting the time by perhaps a third. Probably long odds on that, but worth a try. I'm thinking no less than 5 years to finish, which works. I'll take a look at what I have and might post some of my script breakdown.

 

Otherwise just PM me and I'll PM you a bit of it. I'm kind of in the mood to hear criticism or advice, share details with other writers and fans. I'd appreciate it. Haven't worked on it in months, so some feedback might get me on track to work on it some more. Thanks

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Why not do WoT as a television series, an hour long, every week, til its done

 

That would work the best but has the biggest problems.

 

It cant get canceled

Actors have to stay

Aging for some of the younger characters will become a problem.

 

It can get canceled, that's just the hard truth, but since the series has a built in story, it puts pressure on the studio to either complete it or don't. It's different than your standard television series where the story is written on the fly from season to season.

 

Put it this way: Look at a series like Heroes. I thought it was pretty neat in the beginning, but then I just get frustrated at all of the false endings, people coming back to life, main characters getting shot on 3 separate occasions and surviving every time as if it were a paper cut.

 

Another example is Lost. That's exactly what it did to me. I'm lost there. How many seasons can you write and not give a single freakin answer that sheds any light on what is going on. I'm pretty sure they've spent 75% of the airtime in flashbacks.

 

Now, you can like a show like that, and that's fine. I'm all for it, but you can see what I'm saying right?

 

Anyone here ever seen Babylon 5? I remember that show. Now that show had several seasons and there was a set beginning and an end. They were rushed to finish it, but still for what they allowed to do, they did some pretty cool things with that series. They used few big names, and the graphics are dated, but they squeezed every ounce they could out of the writing.

 

If you use a lesser known cast, you can most likely get them to stay on for about 5-6 seasons.

 

And I know what some people want to say. It's tempting to say, "That's not enough time."

 

Thing is if you squeeze two books into a season for 6 seasons, 13 episodes a season, that's about 6 hours per book which you can put on screen. That's way better than 3 hours per book spread out over 15-18 years.

 

The principle actors must be about 17-19 years old, no doubt. If it ends up taking 8 years, they'll end the series at the age of 25-27 years old. That's about the time when most people start to look noticeably different from when they were a teenager. Besides, the characters will have all gone through so much, three years pretty much would have aged them 10 in appearance.

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Why not do WoT as a television series, an hour long, every week, til its done

Totally, it's the only adaptation I can think of which could do the books and their universe justice. But I agree with Jonn, even if one season could englobe 2 books (which I doubt) it would still mean 6 seasons. Rare are the shows that manage to last that long and moreover, last and be successful.

 

But then, with the writer's strike and the lack of TV shows for the present, it could totally work :D

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Why not do WoT as a television series, an hour long, every week, til its done

Totally, it's the only adaptation I can think of which could do the books and their universe justice. But I agree with Jonn, even if one season could englobe 2 books (which I doubt) it would still mean 6 seasons. Rare are the shows that manage to last that long and moreover, last and be successful.

 

But then, with the writer's strike and the lack of TV shows for the present, it could totally work :D

 

Doesnt have to be the wholes series. Doing the tv show to the end of TDR would still work and to anyone not a WoT fan would look like he series is completely done. It the contracts are done for evey 3 books, youll be laughing.

 

Also, animation is a great idea. Then it wouldnt be a matter of finding an actor who has "almost the right look". Animation is cheap, you pay the actors who do the voices (and barts voice hasnt changed in 20 years), there is no searching the world for places to shoot on location to match the story (although theyd probably choose New Zealand and Australia to shoot, cheaper and massive amounts of different climates to choose from).

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You're telling me you can have around half a dozen different series dedicated

to Star Trek spanning over 40 years, around a dozen movies or so over the last 30 years all based on what was probably one of the hokiest genre concepts ever? I mean, I like the series as much as any casual observer would, but let's face it. When it first started out it was basically bad costumes, cheesy acting and William Shatner having sex with as many intergalactic humanoid females in go-go boots that he could find.

 

I mean, it's pretty much making something out of nothing.

 

I think some people believe that making a movie out of wheel of time would be making something INTO nothing.

 

I don’t think this is really the point. There are major structural differences between the Star Trek franchise, which was conceived as a serial, and the WoT series of novels. The story arcs on Star Trek are very tight, the plot lines no where near as complex. Plus the premise is open ended (you <i>can</i> have five different TV Shows and tons of movies, and swap out characters like light bulbs); because it was intended to be a serial. If you look at TV programs they all(more or less) share that basic format, an open ended premise with a smallish cast. It’s apples and oranges.

 

The story arc in WoT is enormous. The cast is gargantuan. I’m not saying “it’s Impossible” I’m basically saying that films and television are business first. Maybe if you had the same kind of fan base LoTR has, you could get the number crunchers to justify such a huge, massive project (this is much, much bigger than LoTR), but then look at the failed attempts at LoTR which preceded Jackson. I’m not sure I’d want any literature I loved to go through that. I still haven’t forgiven the world for the Dune debacle.

 

I don’t know how familiar you are with the way films (at least big studio releases, who are the only ones who might have the money to do this) are made. Marketability is a major concern, for television even more so. It trumps script, artistic integrity, and loyalty to the source material. Studios want the biggest audience possible and will (and do) make sweeping changes to ensure mass appeal. Plus contrary to popular belief, they are very socially conservative; Pillow friends would go first (Horror of Horrors gay people), Rand’s three women next, then plural marriage amongst the Aiel. You can’t have a leading man who’s going insane, you definitely can’t have him die. Leashing women wouldn’t survive, nor would all the spanking (it’s too close to S&M).

 

In the end you wouldn’t recognize the product. Rand would be some 35 year old action star with big box office appeal, whichever of his women survived the scripting and the cutting room floor would be some marginally vapid starlet.

 

None of this means it can’t be done. You love the series, no doubt that comes across in your script, unfortunately scriptwriters generally end up being the first casualty of the movie machine.

 

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Has anyone here ever watched HBO's, The Wire?

 

Many people haven't even heard of it, but this show ran for 5 seasons over 6 years with the mostly the same cast.

 

It all took place in Baltimore, Maryland. It was a epic piece of television which many hail as one of the best to ever been filmed. Still, the studio seemed less interested in marketability or even awards. It was a hit internationally and it's getting some syndicated play on BET, but for the most part it's one of those under the radar shows.

 

Still, the show is pretty much structured like 5 novels, one per season, but all contained in the same universe with underlying themes and a structured plot. Beginning, middle and end. It's one of the realest shows you can watch. It's just wrapped up and it was all planned out by the head writer to be that way. It wasn't drawn out like the Sopranos. It wasn't open ended. Could they have done 2 more seasons? Of course. But that's not what the writers wanted.

 

My point is, if the writers have control of the project, something like this can be accomplished and I think the Wheel of Time could be done in such a way regardless of whether or not there's a commercial audience to play to. You could sell it to a studio as a groundbreaking project. It's only fitting because Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time, it is groundbreaking.

 

I don't think there's an epic fantasy that's so large and has such a huge scope of vision, while still retaining a linear plot.

 

In terms of television, outside of soaps, the only series I could think of was Star Trek, but as Dbob pointed out, although some of the arcs were very tight and well done, the shows were more or less open ended.

 

Look, you could film one season of Wheel of Time and that would cover Eye of the World. you could whittle that down to 6 or 7 episodes if you want to. 10 if you're lucky to get a willing studio and production party. If you fail to get the support to continue, you've at least put Eye of the World on the screen, 6 or 7 hours worth of Wheel of time for us to look at and hear and feel. Eye of the World would end as a cliffhanger, but it's still good on its own.

 

Could it be canceled? Sure, but you will still have put a great story in a visual medium that could be enjoyed by a more massive audience.

 

As fans we feel that this piece of literature should get more recognition. I feel that way at least. Sometimes I just get frustrated with all of the speculation and moaning about how impossible it would be to film, and then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

They said the same about Lord of the Rings for years and years. Said the same about Dune as well, but that got its own run as a series.

 

You're telling me that stuff like The Golden Compass and Chronicles of Spiderwick and the like are the only fantasy people want to see?

 

The industry has made the miscalculation in thinking that only kids like fantasy, but they forget that the large portion of the audience for Lord of the Rings were young adults, people who read the book when they were kids. Those movies were wrapped 5 years ago, your young adults are now fully adult. Still, they've reverted because they think that fantasy equals Harry Potter. Harry Potter equals kids and kids equal MONEY.

 

I grew up watching movies like Raiders of the Lost Arc, Temple of Doom, Goonies, Ghostbusters, Willow. I watched cartoons like Thundercats, Transformers, He-Man, Voltron...My generation grew up on high adventure and fantasy and we're closing in on our 30's soon. That appetite for the genre hasn't faded. It's obvious because we watch things like 300, Resident Evil, Kill Bill, The Matrix, The 5th element...Then of course there's Star Wars. Every studio wants a Star Wars franchise. I happen to think Lucas went backwards just like the industry, then tried to right the ship at the end with Revenge of the Sith. He went backwards by taking what appealed to a teenage-young adult audience and then he turned it into a lunchbox, pandering to kids affair. Then he went Emo. Were the films entertaining? Yes, but they created some problems in the genre and the marketplace.

 

Now the studios are stuck on the idea that every fantasy/adventure project has to reach the same insane heights of popularity. To a degree, we've all been duped along with them. We're stuck to thinking whether or not the studio would accept the books into film form instead of thinking about whether or not we would personally enjoy seeing the movies in a visual form, on a big screen.

 

Frankly, I couldn't give a crap about whether or not the film version is a financial success, so long as I enjoy it.

 

I really enjoyed Ultraviolet, but most people didn't, but it's a semi cult classic and it's on cable just about every day. whenever I get the chance I sit down and watch my favorite scenes. No commercials, no hook.

 

I approach a possible film or television version of Wheel of Time the same way. It'd be artistic, simply for enjoyment, and for expression, and that's how it should be sold.

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Personally, I love the idea of seeing Wheel of Time on the big screen, but I'm yet to see a book turned movie that hasn't made me feel disappointed. Stories and plot lines get twisted or dropped, and maybe we don't care about the success of the actual movie, but the producers sure will. In Stormbreaker (Alex Rider by Anthony Horowitz) they decided their weren't enough female characters, so they chose one from another book later in the series and wrote her into the first one. I'd rather not have the Wheel of Time ripped to pieces by the film industry, can't we just enjoy the books?

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Guest Dreadlord

Don't get me wrong, it would be immense to see it on TV but I really doubt it will happen. I want them to make a game after the series is finished, one that did the whole story in one, but where you could go good or bad. Fight Tarmon Gaidon and save the world, or fight Tarmon Gaidon and RULE the world mwa ha ha sorry the Taints getting to me abit

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Personally, I love the idea of seeing Wheel of Time on the big screen, but I'm yet to see a book turned movie that hasn't made me feel disappointed. Stories and plot lines get twisted or dropped, and maybe we don't care about the success of the actual movie, but the producers sure will. In Stormbreaker (Alex Rider by Anthony Horowitz) they decided their weren't enough female characters, so they chose one from another book later in the series and wrote her into the first one. I'd rather not have the Wheel of Time ripped to pieces by the film industry, can't we just enjoy the books?

 

Well we won't have the particular problem of not enough female characters. In fact, sometimes I get the distinct feeling that some people think that there are too many female characters. heh

 

I think one of the problems here is that people think that books and motion picture media are translatable word for word, image to image. This is not true. People have a hard time separating their feelings about two different things.

 

Look, I think everyone knows that the book is usually better than the film adaptation. This is true for almost all movies from books.

Hate to sound harsh, but you're not exactly taking a controversial stance when you say such things. It's actually kind of cliche'.

 

So, if this is generally true, what's the point in arguing the...point. It's a given.

 

Now that we've gotten over that, you can then look at the merits of each work as they stand alone. We all know the book is better, so try to focus on the film as if there were no book. Does it work? Is it entertaining?

 

I find that if I can think about it more flexibly, a lot of movies improve in my esteem and I get a lot more enjoyment out of the medium.

 

It's art.

 

I find it interesting that people get immediately stuck into preconceived ideas and notions and then this determines how they think about even an idea of a project.

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Like Lord of the Rings any film made of WoT would be a interperation of the work not a literal translation of the books. The thematic material will be translated as best as it can be. But alot will have to be modified to make it work as a film.

 

The Dragon Reborn has so many story threads in it that intercutting them and keeping it interesting will be hard. I think TDR as a example will have more parts to intercut than The Two Towers or Return Of The King. And I am sure that some would want some part of New Spring added to the first movie which will take alot of time and have to be cut down so much to keep room for EotW's story. EotW will have alot of bits that will need to be shot and intercut with other things as well. Especialy after the group breaks up.

 

Now lets talk Visual effects.

 

EotW will have to have alot of CG work in at lest 70-80% of the film. Removing things like highways power poles contrails from airplanes and the like as all period movies need. Digital extentions to add background visuals the film makers want. Mountain view that don't exists, things of that nature. Then there is the whole issue of bringing things like Channeling and the different types of shadowspawn to life. Most of the Shadowspawn will have to be CG creatures. The fades and perhaps the drakar could be done with actors but the others can't be, what was done for the chronicals of narnia as far as guys in the suites for the minatars wasn't all that good and wouldn't work for the kind of scenes WoT calls for. And for places like Camelyn or Tarvalon you would be looking at set peices build on par with the Minas Terith sets for Lord Of The Rings for each city as well as all the major citys in the WoT world and that gets VERY expencive. You could for go it and just use digital sets but that complicates things as well. Digital sets are all well and good and for things like Star Wars but I don't think it could work in a WoT movie.

 

All and all if it's ever done your looking at billions of dollars to make 12 movies and with the way hollywood is going I don't know if they would have the draw to justify the expence.

 

 

[glow=green,1,500]Darth_Andrea[/glow]    starwars1.gif    anim-ring.gif

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One of my big problems with them making a movie or Tv show is that people who see it will think that they know what the Wheel of Time is about when all they saw was a chopped up distorted version of a great mans dream. There are people who after seeing a book based movie who go out and read it but most say I've seen the movie i know how it goes. I just dont want that to happen to RJ's work.

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One of my big problems with them making a movie or Tv show is that people who see it will think that they know what the Wheel of Time is about when all they saw was a chopped up distorted version of a great mans dream. There are people who after seeing a book based movie who go out and read it but most say I've seen the movie i know how it goes. I just dont want that to happen to RJ's work.

 

As it stands, the same people who would never have heard of the wheel of time save for the movie, probably will never hear about it or give it a chance, period.

 

Look, there is always going to be the large percentage of people who are willfully illiterate and won't read even if a dollar popped out of the page every time you finished a new one. An exaggeration, but you get my point. That's fine if they get a stupid opinion of RJ's vision, because they never will "get it" anyway.

 

BUT, there may be that 15 to 20% of the people who simply have never heard of Robert Jordan or the books, who liked Lord of the Rings, but never decided to read the book until after seeing the movies...found that the style of writing Tolkien used was kind of old fashioned. They may like the Wheel of Time films enough to pick up the books and find that they like the books even better.

 

By the time any series of film or television reaches The Shadow Rising, most people will have caught up to late in the series. They won't be able to resist. That's the faith I have in these books.

 

I used to be one of those people who wouldn't read anything for pleasure until these books came into my life.

 

Thing is, I do love film and television.

 

Ever since I read Shadow Rising, I've dreamed of seeing it on screen with color and moving pieces. It wouldn't be the books, but they would be inspired. These pictures would then inspire.

 

You honestly think that even a bad film could do harm to these books? A mere film could destroy RJ's vision?

 

We are who we are. We're fans. If there is a film and it is indeed successful and it inspires a new generation of fans, then you will have the privilege of being the geeky snobs who get to say: "I've been reading these books for years before this film was even shopped to the studio."  8)

 

Won't that be fun?

 

No film can ruin the books. Don't ever fear that, guys. We who love the series, will always love it.

 

In fact, that's the only reason I would enjoy any film version of the wheel of time, is because it would be made with a love for the material. Not a bastardized corporate affair. I'm with you on that.

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You make a very good point and i really apreciate what your saying and where you are coming from. seeing on it on film really would be great. I am just one of those purist you were talkin obout earlier. Not really sure if it was you I'm just to lazy to check.

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I would hate it. Absolutely hate it.

 

Not because they wouldnt do their best, but because, well, their best just wouldnt be good enough for me.

 

Nothing short of a 12-series Lost-type fandango could possibly fit in enough detail as to make me happy, I'm afraid.

 

Call me awkward, but that's how it is. I love the books, i feel as though i know the characters and i would do nothing but criticise it should they put their own interpretation onto it...

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