Rand's illness

[taters]

What's up with Rand siezing the power? Maybe I didn't read the books carefully enough, but why does he have to fight to stop himself vomiting etc. Also, when did Lews Therin start talking to Rand in his head?

 

Cheers

[Luckers]

Rand's Power Aquisition Syndrome, as ive seen it called, seems to be a direct result of the progression of the taint in him. With the taint cleansed its likely it wont get worse, but nor will it get better. It seems to be an ongoing trend of RJ's to injure Rand in some permanant way. To date we have the never healing wounds in his side, the PAS, the encroaching insanity and effect of LTT--not to mention his injuries in KoD.

[Blade]

actually it is generally thought to be due to the combined balefire's done by moridin and rand when they were killing sammael in shadar logoth. It is not actually sickness due to the taint. Since their two balefires crossed, they have been linked and it shows a point of view where moridin looks like he is going to sick up when Rand draws on the power. The only insanity we might be seeing is the fact that LTT is in his head, which grendael lists as a form of insanity.

[Luckers]

Hmm... good point. I must concede the point. Although didn't Moridin seem angry, not sick, in the moment you suggest?

 

As for the rest. LTT is gaining increasing control, and with it Rand's mental state is declining. Semirhages statments are very clear about the potentials results, and since they came from Graendal who was an expert...

[Jedimuppet]

Hmm... good point. I must concede the point. Although didn't Moridin seem angry' date=' not sick, in the moment you suggest?

 

As for the rest. LTT is gaining increasing control, and with it Rand's mental state is declining. Semirhages statments are very clear about the potentials results, and since they came from Graendal who was an expert...[/quote']

 

Semirhage is a liar.

J

[Blade]

true, she is a liar, but if she is lying, it is very convincing since it is the only thing that seems to make sense as to how LTT got into his head.

[taters]

any way, thanks a lot to all three of you, that was really anoying me! But I'm happy now :D

[Jedimuppet]

true' date=' she is a liar, but if she is lying, it is very convincing since it is the only thing that seems to make sense as to how LTT got into his head.[/quote']

 

Think about it this way: we know she likes to make people afraid of each other. She supposedly scared her captors in the AOL into letting her go. She messes with you. It's totally in character.

 

As to how LTT got in his head, why is that any more convincing then the idea that he's a very special kind of reincarnation. I have my own theories about time being warped by closeness in the pattern, but that's for a different place. Semi has a motive for saying what she said, and we've heard the Forsaken lie before. I do not believe Rand is mad, and it's not the taint messing with him. It's the BF thing mentioned above. I think the bowl also messed all the AM up for a while.

J

[Blade]

Well the one thing I have trouble explaining is how she knew that he had LTT in his head, and not only knew that he was in his head, but that it was the real version of him as well. He has been careful to conceal the fact that he's talking to someone in his head so I'm inclined to believe she's telling the truth. She may be doing it to serve her own ends, but I still believe it for true.

[Jedimuppet]

Well the one thing I have trouble explaining is how she knew that he had LTT in his head' date=' and not only knew that he was in his head, but that it was the real version of him as well. He has been careful to conceal the fact that he's talking to someone in his head so I'm inclined to believe she's telling the truth. She may be doing it to serve her own ends, but I still believe it for true.[/quote']

 

Or she knows what's really going on, and deduced LTT's presence, and decided to convince the good guys that their leader was crazy.

J

[rd2000]

Well the one thing I have trouble explaining is how she knew that he had LTT in his head' date=' and not only knew that he was in his head, but that it was the real version of him as well. He has been careful to conceal the fact that he's talking to someone in his head so I'm inclined to believe she's telling the truth. She may be doing it to serve her own ends, but I still believe it for true.[/quote']

 

She explained that since Rand knew things about their age only LTT could know, that he heard LTT's voice. She even mentioned that hearing a real voice was not precendented with Rand, but that it was harder to heal. Plus the fact that Lanfear referred to Rand as Lews Therin, and he is called "the Dragon Reborn"

[Jedimuppet]

Well the one thing I have trouble explaining is how she knew that he had LTT in his head' date=' and not only knew that he was in his head, but that it was the real version of him as well. He has been careful to conceal the fact that he's talking to someone in his head so I'm inclined to believe she's telling the truth. She may be doing it to serve her own ends, but I still believe it for true.[/quote']

 

She explained that since Rand knew things about their age only LTT could know, that he heard LTT's voice. She even mentioned that hearing a real voice was not precendented with Rand, but that it was harder to heal. Plus the fact that Lanfear referred to Rand as Lews Therin, and he is called "the Dragon Reborn"

 

But the only reason to help people who hear voices is because they're *not* real...if they are real, why heal?

 

If the voices are real, you must not heal!

J

[hapazard]

Rand's Power Aquisition Syndrome' date=' as ive seen it called, seems to be a direct result of the progression of the taint in him. ...[/quote']

 

Power Aquisition Syndrome means the fever and dissieness a channeler will experience after the first 3 times he/she uses the one power

[Kadere]

the reason LTT starts talking in Rand's head is the effect of Ishamael tryiing to take Rand's soul at the end of TDR. While he goes to grab Callandor he feels a tearing:

 

Ba'alzamon's blow struck him as he leapt, struck inside him, a ripping and crumpling, tearing something loose, trying to pull a part of him away.

 

It's in the next book the we first have LTT speak, when Lanfear shows up. This battle with Ishamael is the reason LTT begins to talk.

[Luckers]

Power Aquisition Syndrome means the fever and dissieness a channeler will experience after the first 3 times he/she uses the one power

 

It's used frequently to describe Rand's state.

 

But the only reason to help people who hear voices is because they're *not* real...if they are real, why heal?

 

If the voices are real, you must not heal!

 

Why? A broken leg is real... or the voices brought on by Syphallis could be termed the reault of something that is physically real. For that matter so is schitzophrenia, in a more esoteric sense. Just because it is real doesn't mean it isn't dangerous, or that it shouldn't be healed.

 

As to Semirhage, that whole scene strikes me as her being truthful. Indeed, as far as i can tell Semirhage doesn't do much of anything without deep reason. She isn't a liar, she's an intelligent, driven person. She will lie, yes, if there is reason... but if she was doing so here, her lies coincided very closely with what is actually occuring--Rand does hear LTT's real voice in his head, and Graendal would know about it. Additionally we've seen that the Rand/LTT relationship is growing more and more problematic and unstable. Semirhages assertion that it can result into a desent into terminal madness fits what we know at every stage, and her attitude when she gave the assertion makes me conclude that she was telling the truth.

[Jellybelly]

Agreed.

[Jedimuppet]

Power Aquisition Syndrome means the fever and dissieness a channeler will experience after the first 3 times he/she uses the one power

 

It's used frequently to describe Rand's state.

 

But the only reason to help people who hear voices is because they're *not* real...if they are real' date=' why heal?

 

If the voices are real, you must not heal!

[/quote']

 

Why? A broken leg is real... or the voices brought on by Syphallis could be termed the reault of something that is physically real. For that matter so is schitzophrenia, in a more esoteric sense. Just because it is real doesn't mean it isn't dangerous, or that it shouldn't be healed.

 

As to Semirhage, that whole scene strikes me as her being truthful. Indeed, as far as i can tell Semirhage doesn't do much of anything without deep reason. She isn't a liar, she's an intelligent, driven person. She will lie, yes, if there is reason... but if she was doing so here, her lies coincided very closely with what is actually occuring--Rand does hear LTT's real voice in his head, and Graendal would know about it. Additionally we've seen that the Rand/LTT relationship is growing more and more problematic and unstable. Semirhages assertion that it can result into a desent into terminal madness fits what we know at every stage, and her attitude when she gave the assertion makes me conclude that she was telling the truth.

 

Has it occured to you that she's trying to explain away a potential ally to the Light? Think about it..she convinces everyone he's crazy, and denies him his best chance at winning. Look what LTT has taught him already...

 

You guys aren't at all suspicious of her comments?

J

[Inara]

she's undermining his confindence in himself, as weel as the comfidence other have in him to weaken his position. nobody wants to follow a madman..more people will question his decisions, etc.

not to mention that the people there with him are more or less his most trusted.

psycological warfare was always her speciality, if not her hobby.

[Jedimuppet]

she's undermining his confindence in himself' date=' as weel as the comfidence other have in him to weaken his position. nobody wants to follow a madman..more people will question his decisions, etc.

not to mention that the people there with him are more or less his most trusted.

psycological warfare was always her speciality, if not her hobby.[/quote']

 

Exactly!

J

[Jellybelly]

That doesn't mean he's not crazy. To Rand it is more like the revealing of a secret he does not want known, more than a lie to discredit him as a leader. That is the way I read it at least, especially since it lines up nicely with what RJ has told us about Rand's madness.

[Jedimuppet]

That doesn't mean he's not crazy. To Rand it is more like the revealing of a secret he does not want known' date=' more than a lie to discredit him as a leader. That is the way I read it at least, especially since it lines up nicely with what RJ has told us about Rand's madness.[/quote']

 

He would be crazy if the voice wasn't there.

J

[Jellybelly]

We have had this discussion before, and I do not see how the reiteration of it will convince any of us to change opinion.

 

I see it like this: In a world with reincarnation, the types of madness which cause people to hear voices in their heads, may sometimes cause a person to hear a real voice, the voice of a former life, which has been jostled into activity by the disease, so to speak. I do not think this makes you any less insane, because it would create heavy problems with a person's mind, as we have seen it do with Rand.

 

I see no reason why Semirhage would lie about this, when the truth is as grim as the fiction.

[Jedimuppet]

We have had this discussion before' date=' and I do not see how the reiteration of it will convince any of us to change opinion.

 

I see it like this: In a world with reincarnation, the types of madness which cause people to hear voices in their heads, may sometimes cause a person to hear a real voice, the voice of a former life, which has been jostled into activity by the disease, so to speak. I do not think this makes you any less insane, because it would create heavy problems with a person's mind, as we have seen it do with Rand.

 

I see no reason why Semirhage would lie about this, when the truth is as grim as the fiction.[/quote']

 

You only think the truth is as grim as the fiction because you already believe her. For some reason it didn't strike you as odd that somebody who hears a real voice is considered insane, rather than clairvoyant. I mean, theoretically, mediums in this world hear other voices, but they're not insane, even if their lives are complicated. Insanity is not comprehending reality...if you're comprehending reality correctly, no matter how it affects you, that's not insanity.

J

[Jellybelly]

Yes, I already believe her. Why? Because it makes sense, with the information RJ provided us on the state of LTT over the years. I am fully aware of the fact that Semirhage may well be a liar, but in my opinion it would take the books in an interesting direction if she were telling the truth. I guess we will all find out which is the truth when AMoL comes out in a few years or so.

 

And besides, we are talking semantics. This is not science, as people, as people as we know are not reincarnated in the real world. There certainly is not any reliable research supporting it as far as I know. However, Semirhage says that this is a type of insanity that is known of in this world. This is not clairvoyance, as that could be defined as listening to external voices; (if you accept that so-called media actually DO hear voices)Rand's problem is wholly internal, he is hearing a voice inside his head that should not be there, normally. That sounds like a disease to me.

 

Of course, without Lews Therin's knowledge, there is a very real possibility that Rand could not win the LB. But his condition is still a disease, which according to Semirhage is made all the worse because of the fact that LTT is real. If that is not a plot device that can create some really interesting situations and tension, I do not know what is. Yes, I do accept what she says as true, because it makes for an interesting story.

[Inara]

the truth thatshe told is much more disturbing than any lie. rand cannot deny it truthfully hence the undermining.

about the crazy v clairvoyant thing, LTT is real, but he IS mad, by anyone's standards. rand hasalready picked up some of his personality traits, ans sometimes behaves in a way that is highly unusual, which he has to justify to himself all the time. if he is not mad already, he is getting there.