Goodkind vs RJ

[Moghedian]

BURN THE DISBELIEVER! Nah, you're entitled to your own opinions. I prefer WoT, however I still think that GRRM is a very good writer. It is partly the length of the books that makes me love WoT and the detail put into all the sub-plots.

[Warrak]

All the above is strictly opinion.  We obviously all love RJ or we wouldn't be logged on.  In my humble opinion Goodkind did NOT hack RJ.  Parts of his story line are similar, but you can find similarities like this in any book.  Don't you think Eye of the World is very similar to Lord of the Rings?  JR didn't copy Tolkien, but the direction of his story had to start in a setting like that.

Regardless, JR, Goodkind, and George Martin are all awesome authors and their works are great reads. Definately worth the time.

 

PS...For those of you that like Goodkind, you should read David Gemmell.  He also just recently passed away.  His work (mostly single books or trilogies) is very brutal, violent and fast paced. 

[Luckers]

Except its a little more complex than that. The number of the specific similarities between the two books--and more importantly their positioning and purpose in the plot are just too great. But thats already been said several times and with much greater eloquence in this thread, so look back to previous pages.

 

There is also the issue that whilst RJ is quite open about the similarity between the Eye of the World and the Lord of the Rings--at the time he began writing you needed to connect your fantasy series to LotR in order that it sell--whilst Goodkind flat out denies ever reading WoT.

[Warrak]

I don't think it's that complex.  He either copied the WoT series or he didn't.  Most fantasy books and series have the same basic plot.  RJ and TG share those same core ideas (fatherless/motherless country boy vs. big bad wolf), but it ends there.  Sure the main character's name starts with a 'R' and sure both have collars to harness magic, but that's it. 

All other similarities are again based off the core ideas that most writers in this genre use.  Again, this is just my opinion...

 

As far as TG reading RJ, I would put money on the fact that he has read the WoT series. 

[Luckers]

Actually, again, it is that complex. It's there. The use, and progression of the similarities deny a simple same-source reason. Yes, ideas such as the boy growing to manhood on a quest, of magic swords and destiny--even of collars and leashing magic and sisterhoods of sorceresses all are well based in mythology, and appear unilaterally accross the Fantasy genre, and thats fine--but it is the way that the use in the Sword of Truth specifically correlates with the use in the Wheel of Time which is so problematic.

 

Sisters of the Light with their hidden Sisters of the Dark. Rada'han and a'dam. Wizards webs and weaves of the Power--both elemental, though sorry, the wizards webs have a sixth power, ice, so clearly can't be related.

 

The way the world is constructed, the way those constructions work within the plotting--its too similar. Too specifically similar in too many of the right ways. And also too dissimilar in too many specific ways, which would not occur with coincidental similarity. He took from Jordan, and changed specific things to make them appear dissimilar.

 

Don't get me wrong, if your gonna steal from someone steal from the masters--it made his early books somewhat readable. Certainly when he moved on from plagarising Jordan to plagarising Ayn Rand the books took a dramatic turn for the worse.

[zzyzx_scarecrow]

I'm bordering on downright mean -

 

Goodkind reads like a middle-schooler, the sex and violence is his attempt to be edgy.

 

And yes, all fantasy authors pull from the same set of archetypes, but their skill lies in rearranging them in a way that isn't [overtly] cliche.  Everything about Goodkind's work strikes me as cliche and overdone.  I think his use of language is clumsy.  I've only ever read Wizard's First Rule, but it felt like the first draft of an amateur.

 

 

Sorry for being a jerk.

[Guest Dreadlord]

The thing about Sword of Truth is that each book for the first half of the set is one story that ends with the book, the next being a spinoof. This makes Sword of Truth a less daunting series to pick up, although like most on here I can see that Terry Goodkind DEFINITELY read Wheel of Time.

 

Another thing about the Sword of Truth is that Terry Goodkinds plot devices are too visible. At the end of WFR Darken Rahl opens a box, dies, and all is well. But then it turns out that opening a box, even the wrong one, makes the veil weaken. It just seems like he wrote a book and then searched through it to find something to give him an opening for another-yet with Wheel of Time it doesnt even HINT at being near the end until the middle of the series. Wheel of Time is by far the better for me-since reading it it seems pointless reading a stand-alone book, just doesnt seem like enough of a story anymore with one book

[DuDZiK]

Thanks for the heads-up on Goodkind I was just about to purchase one of his books.

 

This is exactly what I hate about these sorts of threads. For gods sake let people form their own damn opinion and stop acting like you're superior because you think you read a superior book. And bRANDan the same holds true for you; don't let other people decide for you what to like and what not to like, because at some point in your life you're going to have to be independent and be able to form your own opinion about things.

 

Personally, I go back and forth between liking WoT or SoT more; right now I'm leaning on WoT. For those who bash TG, saying he's a hack and has the writing ability of a first grader, get a life and get off your high horse because you're not impressing anyone. Saying you like RJ better than TG or that WoT is a better series than SoT is one thing, outright bashing him like he raped your mother or something is for children.

 

I apologize for anyone who takes offense to this whom I did not intend to reprimand, because I acknowledge that these kinds of people are few and far between.

[anamul]

I agree with "DuDZiK".Two years ago I purchased three GRRM books, based on a reccomendation of a WOT forum. Sad to say that I was deeply disappointed and vastly angry.I was furious.GRRM might be a talented writer but he isn't my kind or of my taste.

 

I read fantasy to escape from harsh reality of my own life for a couple of hours.I guess some people do that.

 

So when you recomend any writter or series, please keep in mind that not every one's taste is like you.

 

WOT is a far more better story than ASOIF.It doesn't matter wheather RJ is less talented or not, cause he has found the symphony, the symphony that appeals to me.I don't care if every one else thinks otherwise.

 

So, if you like a static and deep romance between  main characters(Rand and his trio, Richard and Kahlan,Gavril and Kiukiu, Garion and C,Nedra, Simon and Merrimele, etc) and if you don't like character dies in every chapter or so, and if you like a central character or two to be constant through out the series like LOR,WOT,SOT, Belgarion, Elenium etc. Then GRRM isn't your type.

 

One have to keep these things in mind before recomending any series or Authore.

If you like pure fun, read HP and discworld and types. Cook Glen is fun reading, too.

If you like your charcater cut short and die in every chapter, then Steven Erikson, GRRM and types is for you.There is no centre character in those series.

 

As for Goodkind reading WOT, I don't think so. In his fan forum, some people mentioned that He can't read....for some kind of disease or somethingg.

 

Goodkind himself said he didn't read WOT and I believe him. BUT HE HEARD THE WOT AUDIO BOOKS. There is no doubt about it.

But I still like SOT, in fact SOT is my second favourite after WOT.

If not for nothing else, just for Kahlan.

 

In short, each person to his or her own.

 

So please don't reccomend books unless you are ready to lay out all the facts. It cost me 50$ USD last time I listened to any one. I am not going to do that again.Such a waste of time and money.

A better example would be, Heroes and Prison Break. I like Prison Break and I despise Heroes. As it is, any one who is reccomending good TV series, will more likely reccomend both of them.

 

Also, don't slander any Authore,just because you don't like them, doesn't mean others don't.

 

 

[Guest Dreadlord]

Well, in threads like these when people ask you opinion what are you supposed to say then? Those who think Goodkind copied alot from Wheel of Time are only voicing their opinions like asked for. If people dont want them then maybe threads like this shouldnt be opened.

 

Im not saying dont read Goodkind, or that they are a bad read; just that it is obvious where Terry got a lot of his ideas. I am an aspiring writer myself and one thing I have noticed is that many things in books or films start off a chain of thought that ends up with an idea to fit into my book. I read Sword of Truth before Wheel of Time, yet it is obvious who got ideas from who. Im not saying Goodkind deliberately thought "I like that scene, I will use it" I am saying the chains of thought Wheel of Time started for him didnt travel far  enough from the original.

 

Still, Sword of Truth does have many things that make it good. Gratch, for example, is great. The gar Richard befriends, I really enjoyed those parts. And the detail on combat is excellent. The actual Sword of Truth itself is brilliant, how Richard cant kill someone he believes to be an enemy even if he wants to, and later on he can turn the blade white. The Wizard Rules (or the first few at least) are very good as well, they apply to real lifeas well as the story.

[bRANDan]

Thanks for the heads-up on Goodkind I was just about to purchase one of his books.

And bRANDan the same holds true for you; don't let other people decide for you what to like and what not to like, because at some point in your life you're going to have to be independent and be able to form your own opinion about things.

 

Hahaha. People tell me that dog poo tastes like crap. Have you ever had a taste?

 

The series gets poor reviews everywhere, this is not the only place I post. Goodkind is the only author I have ever seen who has threads dedicated to bashing him. There are reasons for that obviously that others have stated.

 

To me, it looks like poo and smells like poo, I don't think I require a taste to be sure.

[Eaving]

There are definately similarities, like the Aes Sedai vs Sisters of the Light. But you could say RJ nicked some ideas off tolkein- like the Mydraal (ringwraiths) and the whole 'legend fades to myth and even myth is long forgotten.' that's in LOTR. i love the WoT series and i find it funny all the similarities.

I much prefer TG series though- less similar sounding words. I kept getting the sea folk mixed up with the evil people who capture women who channel (they're like the mordsith in TG!). oh god better stop before get on a role lol

[Guest Dreadlord]

The difference between RJ and Goodkind in that respect is this. RJ admits to taking ideas from places. He openly admitted that the Two Rivers was sightly influenced by the Shire in LotR in able to give the reader a familiar starting point. Yet Terry Goodkind denies ever reading Wheel of Time. RJs ideas are influenced on many things, and he has never denied it; thats why people slate Terry for it and not RJ.

[poke]

(I've been a lurker for a while, but I registered just to post on this topic.)

 

I started with RJ, then hit GRRM, then Goodkind.  Before reading these forums, I never even thought about comparing RJ and Goodkind.  The similarities aren't outrageous enough for me to say that Goodkind copied RJ, and the ideas themselves aren't that far out there.  A collar is one of the most fundamental ways we exhibit control over something else.  How outrageous is it that in a fantasy world where Power or magic exists, that it influence a collar in some way?  In the same world, take an organization of women (nunnery, anyone?) and apply the concept magic to that.  Simple things, but in writing, they can be utilized in amazing ways.  Just because RJ did it first does not mean that Goodkind's ideas are invalidated.  Then again, I'm not saying that he DIDN'T copy.. Just that I don't see it as the only way.

 

In comparing RJ and GRRM, I don't think I'd be able to say one is better than the other.  GRRM isn't normally a fantasy writer; he's sci-fi.  That said, he does fantasy fantastically (hah!)--just differently.  It's not high fantasy, it's definitely very low.

 

I like each series for different reasons.  And, even though I would say that Goodkind doesn't seem to be on the same level as either RJ or GRRM, I wouldn't say don't read it.  Each author brings something new to the table.  In some cases, though, like ASoIaF, it might be beneficial to read up and know what to expect.. If you're not into heavy violence, sex, incest, or main characters dying, don't read it.  But don't let the opinions of others sway you to not read it.  If you can find a way to read before purchasing (library, borrowing from friend, etc), you won't be wasting money if you hate it.

[safwd]

Here are my 2 cents.

 

First, i do think that Wot and SoT have some pretty big similarities. I for one think that TG had pretty good knowledge of WoT. But that is really fine, i have no problem with that.

This is my problem. I have enjoyed every book in the WoT, some more then others but i enjoyed them all. I really enjoyed the first couple books of SoT but after those he lost me very very fast.

Thats me though, read them if you like and form your own opinion.

 

ASoIaF i dont know too much about. I read the first book and liked it but didnt have a strong feeling of wanting to read the rest. I may have to give it another shot though because i hear so many good things about it.