I've finally done it... I've cracked open Wizard's First Rule and...

[Orange Fescue]

Orange Fescue-

 

The accusations of plagiarism stem from two items:

 

1) The similarities

 

2) The *timing*

 

It's the timing that's critical. TG cranked his books out in about a year, and all the things pointed to as borrowing- barring the ridiculous crap- would appear in his books one year after appearing in Jordan's. The fact he was at the least inspired by Jordan was very obvious, even if Jordan gave form to his muse. No-one would mind that. It was his vehement denial of ever reading a single one of Jordan's books, his insistence thereafter that he didn't read fantasy, etc., that built into all-but claiming Moses carried him down the mountain, that really pissed many WoT readers off. Goodkind has proudly stated he doesn't read fiction, then turns around and claims his books are the pillar of creative fiction because they contain content and aren't "trite" like other fantasy series- he even denies he writes fantasy books!

 

That's the problem. He thinks he's novel because he's ignorant, largely, of the genre. Most die-hard SoT fans are also not well-read, and this is the first time they've encountered concepts like Objectivism, so they feel enlightened. See the same thing with freshman and their Poli Sci 101 professors in college. Those ideas aren't novel, as have been mentioned, they're quite common in fantasy, and so many SoT fans believe Goodkind originated them all himself. Bah.

BBB,

You inspired me to go to Wikipedia and look up the publication dates of the novels of both RJ and Goodkind. I was going to do a table comparing publication dates for each author's first 11 books but the technology defeated me.  :'( My point was going to be I couldn't find the year-by-year parallels in publication you were talking about.

 

Maybe my problem is just that I've read so much over the years that I can't isolate RJ and Goodkind's work in my mind and see one being a copy of the other. On the plagiarism list I mentioned earlier, even all the items that might have seemed sensible were things or concepts I'd seen before in other books, films, or myths. Goodkind's pretensions to having read nothing that might have inspired him other than Ayn Rand seem more like something he wants to be true based on his devotion to her philosophy than anything that could be true in practice. Maybe I should whip out my library card (I read Goodkind's first several books but don't own them.) and do a side-by-side reread of both series. If nothing else, it should keep my busy while young Mr. Sanderson finishes AMoL.

[Guest cw]

I am visually impaired and don't read(in-print), very many books.  That said, I listen to quite alot.  If they don't have it in my library on CD, should I spend $20 or so on an MP3 of WFR from Amazon?  I just want see what everyone's talking about.  Thanks

 

If the library doesn't have it I'd suggest trying to find a place that rents audio books.  It might come as 2 or 3 separate parts rather than complete like the library would do.  I haven't done it for a while, but when I did it was usually 5 to 7 bucks for each part of a book.  Rent the first part, and if you are enjoying the story, get the rest.  If you don't care to finish, return the part you rented and walk away.

[Jelly]

Now, I was looking for a display picture for some other forums, and came across this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouroboros

 

Looks rather familiar to a description.

[Vambram]

Yes it does look very familiar. :)

[Physics is fun]

Although I honestly haven't been on these forums in about two years, (I quit when I finished the books, don't know why) I missed a lot of the criticism and as an avid fan of fantasy novels in general I found the Sword of Truth serious really enjoyable. Admittadely I haven't gotten around to the eleveenth yet.

[Ashaman Kovan]

Heres the perfect analogy for why people on here won't admit that SoT is a good series of books in it's own right: You wouldn't go to your mothers kitchen and tell her your girlfriends cooking is better would you? That being said, I don't even have a mother so don't try and pick that apart to much. You know what I mean. And confessor was good, it was just a bit anti-climactic and not what anyone expected I don't think. I've read every book and they are all good in their own rights. But the first 3 or 4 are the most action pact and exciting ones.

[Vambram]

Here are perfectly good reason for people to be very annoyed with Terry Goodkind. One, he refuses to admit he is really writing fantasy novels. That might seem like a small, petty point to a few readers, but to most of us, that really is something that very annoying.

 

The following websites show the publishing dates for the WOT books by Robert Jordan and then also the publishing dates for the SoT books by Terry Goodkind.

 

http://www.tor-forge.com/author/robertjordan

Then, do the advanced search option, and select author: Robert Jordan, series: Wheel of Time, and format: Hardcover

 

The Eye of the World

Book One of 'The Wheel of Time'

Hardcover

Published: January 1990 

 

The Great Hunt

Book Two of 'The Wheel of Time'

Wheel of Time  Volume 2

Published: November 1990

 

 

The Dragon Reborn

Book Three of 'The Wheel of Time'

Hardcover

Published: September 1991 

 

The Shadow Rising

Book Four of 'The Wheel of Time'

Hardcover

Published: September 1992

 

The Fires of Heaven

Book Five of 'The Wheel of Time'

Published: October 1993 

 

Lord of Chaos

Book Six of 'The Wheel of Time'

Hardcover

Published: October 1994

 

A Crown of Swords

Book Seven of 'The Wheel of Time'

Hardcover

Published: May 1996

 

The Path of Daggers

Book Eight of 'The Wheel of Time'

Hardcover

Published: October 1998

 

Winter's Heart

Book Nine of 'The Wheel of Time'

Robert Jordan 

Hardcover

Published: November 2000 

 

 

Crossroads of Twilight

Book Ten of 'The Wheel of Time'

Hardcover

Published: January 2003

 

Knife of Dreams

Wheel of Time  Volume 11 

Hardcover

Published: October 2005 

 

 

 

 

http://www.tor-forge.com/author/terrygoodkind

However, the website from Tor-forge is not entirely accurate to show the first release dates for Goodkind's SoT series, therefore I took the time to go to Goodkind's own website http://www.prophets-inc.com/his_works/

and copied the following information for his books.

 

Wizard's First Rule

RELEASE DATE: July 1995

ISBN#: 0812548051

 

Stone of Tears

RELEASE DATE: June 1996

ISBN#: 0812548094

 

Blood of the Fold

RELEASE DATE: July 1997

ISBN#: 0812551478

 

Temple of the Winds

RELEASE DATE: August 1998

ISBN#: 0812551486

 

Soul of the Fire

RELEASE DATE: April 1999

ISBN#: 0312890540

 

Faith of the Fallen

RELEASE DATE: November 2001

ISBN#: 081257639X

 

Pillars of Creation

RELEASE DATE: November 2002

ISBN#: 0765300265

 

Naked Empire

RELEASE DATE: July 2003

ISBN#: 0765305224

 

Chainfire

RELEASE DATE: January 2005

ISBN#:0765305232

 

Phantom

Coming Summer 2006

http://www.prophets-inc.com/his_works/phantom.html

 

Confessor

National on-sale date for Confessor is November 13, 2007

http://www.prophets-inc.com/his_works/confessor.html

 

 

Now, I wish that it was not necessary to post the weblinks that advertise Goodkind's SoT series, even though I give the SoT a grade of C+ However, I wanted to make sure that the readers of this thread would see that I was posting official dates, and then anyone can compare the all-too close publishing dates of the SoT novels following the WOT books which strongly indicate the veracity of the evidence suggesting taht Goodkind borrowed tooooo many ideas from Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series.

 

[Vambram]

Hmmm, I see no rebuttals to my above post, therefore I believe that there are no further attempts, at least for a while, to defend Goodkind's claims concerning his SoT series verses Jordan's WOT series? :)

[Jelly]

Hm..well I just consider WOT to be the best books I've ever read, and they always will be, so the similarities don't bother me. I'm certain WOT readers have not been lost to SOT so it doesn't really matter.

[Orange Fescue]

Now, I wish that it was not necessary to post the weblinks that advertise Goodkind's SoT series, even though I give the SoT a grade of C+ However, I wanted to make sure that the readers of this thread would see that I was posting official dates, and then anyone can compare the all-too close publishing dates of the SoT novels following the WOT books which strongly indicate the veracity of the evidence suggesting taht Goodkind borrowed tooooo many ideas from Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series.

 

 

"All-too close publishing dates"? The time lag between RJ's first book and TG's first book is 5 years. Between RJ's second, third, fourth and fifth books and TG's equivalently numberd books, the lag is 6 years. Their sixth books are 7 years apart. Their seventh books are 6 years apart. Their eighth and ninth books are each 5 years apart. That the gap closed to 3 years for their tenth books and 2 years for their eleventh books is surely because RJ's writing slowed down so much the last few years of his life. How does an average gap of 5 to 7 years in the publication dates of the two series "strongly indicate the veracity of the evidence suggesting taht Goodkind borrowed tooooo many ideas from Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series"?

[Vambram]

*shrugs*

To myself and others, the separation of those publishing dates and the average amount of time really is close to one another, especially when one considers and compares the various irritatingly annoying similarities within SoT as compared to WOT. :)

[trakand_01]

So I've read only a bit so far, just about 105 pages in. Okay precisely 105 pages in. You know what? I like it. SACRILEGE! I can see you know oiling your pitchforks and dipping your torches in kerosene preparing for a forced march to Sydney. Wait I say! Wait! I can honestly say thus far, admittedly not very far, I haven't sensed the so called "Blatant Plagiarism" but I am aware that I probably will sense it sooner or later and once I've read the series I will probably look back and sigh with the burden of knowledge and say "Hindsight truly is a wonderful teacher" then curl my lip in disgust and fling my copy of WFR into the fireplace. Well first I'd have to build a fireplace and second I'd have to pluck the book out quick-smart and return it with apologies to my librarian but you get the picture.

 

Funny. Do you read Terry Pratchett? I have images of a vaguely charred book and a confused orang-utan...