Did Cadsuane Lie?

[aevogt]

When Cadsuane first introduces herself to Rand, she tells him that she had captured more men than any other three sisters, or words to that effect.  Then she says "I've got a nose" implying she has some Talent for sniffing out male sparkers.

 

We know this is not true; her success in finding men who can channel is due to the 8-pointed star Ter angreal she wears as a hair ornament.

 

 

[Majsju]

The oath against lying leaves room for sarcasm, irony etc.

[aevogt]

How does "I vow to speak no word that is untrue"  allow for anything but the truth?

[Shendare]

Implications mean nothing. If what she said was "I've got a nose", then I certainly hope the words were true. She'd look quite ugly without a nose.

[Luckers]

RJ says it has to do with the Aes Sedai's knowledge of whether or not it will be taken for the truth. For instance an Aes Sedai could sarcastically say that the sky is green--but not if, for instance, she was speaking to a blind person who might actually believe her.

 

But as Sheandre points out, there is no actual lie in the 'nose' comment since she does indeed have a nose. It's misleading, but not a lie.

[Jonn]

When Cadsuane first introduces herself to Rand, she tells him that she had captured more men than any other three sisters, or words to that effect.  Then she says "I've got a nose" implying she has some Talent for sniffing out male sparkers.

 

We know this is not true; her success in finding men who can channel is due to the 8-pointed star Ter angreal she wears as a hair ornament.

 

 

 

You used the word "implying", and this is exactly the point to the old saying that the truth you think an Aes Sedai should be saying isn't always the same truth you might think it is. Or...however that saying goes. You get what I mean.  ;)

 

The oath doesn't seem to stop an Aes Sedai from using figures of speech.

 

Saying that she has a nose for finding men who channel could mean a number of things including the possibility that she could simply be lucky like that.

 

She could also mean that she has the means to sniff out men who can channel. It doesn't necessarily have to literally mean that she can actually smell men who can channel. Even that has some truth to it because you can smell most people, not just men who can channel.

 

As for whether or not she is telling the truth about capturing more men who can channel than any three sisters. It doesn't even have to be literally true. It is what she believes to be the truth that counts. If she has a general idea of how many men most Aes Sedai have caught who can channel, she can compare that number to how many she's caught. It could also be a play on the fact that for the most part, she caught these men on her own while most Reds, for example, work in groups to corner men. So, in comparison to three Aes Sedai who have caught one man who can channel, they can all say that they caught one man, albeit the same man caught by the three sisters. Cadsuane though has caught several, mostly on her own. Again, the word "imply" comes into play. She could actually be implying that for every three sisters it takes to capture one man, she can do so on her own.

 

All this is part of one of the major themes in the series: The truth is relative.

[Guest Dreadlord]

She said she has a nose. She DOES have a nose. If she'd have said "Iv got a nose for male sparkers" she would have been lying. It goes off context and wording. Cadsuane could say to somebody "Call ma John" and she would be lying, shes telling them to use a different name. And after that she could say she has been called John before-still not lying-and therefore has created an alias for herself. The comment about her nose was no where near lying

[Guest cw]

Cadsuane has captured a lot of male channelers.  Thee are indications throughout the books that verify her claim of having caught more male channelers than any other three sisters.  There is also mention that the channelers she captured handled Gentling much better than those captured by other Aes Sedai.

[Guest Dreadlord]

QUOTE

Cadsuane could say to somebody "Call ma John" and she would be lying

UNQUOTE

yea i typed that wrong. it meant to say "Call me John" and she would NOT be lying as she hasnt said her name is John

[aevogt]

RJ says it has to do with the Aes Sedai's knowledge of whether or not it will be taken for the truth. For instance an Aes Sedai could sarcastically say that the sky is green--but not if, for instance, she was speaking to a blind person who might actually believe her.

 

But as Sheandre points out, there is no actual lie in the 'nose' comment since she does indeed have a nose. It's misleading, but not a lie.

 

Good point

 

I though I'd finally had caught that old hag.

[Cillian]

When Cadsuane first introduces herself to Rand, she tells him that she had captured more men than any other three sisters, or words to that effect.  Then she says "I've got a nose" implying she has some Talent for sniffing out male sparkers.

 

We know this is not true; her success in finding men who can channel is due to the 8-pointed star Ter angreal she wears as a hair ornament.

 

Maybe she named her ter'angreal "nose"  ;) :P :D

[Asgard Thorin]

Her exact words, from U.S. paperback, Chapter 18 ACOS: "I am Green Ajah, not Red, but I have worn the shawl longer than any sister living, and I have faced more men who could channel than any four Reds, maybe any ten. Not that I hunted them, you understand, but I seem to have a nose."

 

She did not say a nose for it(hunting men who could channel) though that would be the obvious implication. I.e. she has a knack and a taste for hunting such men, however she acquired knack and taste.

[Luckers]

She would have been able to say it anyway, much as Siuan was able to threaten to gut several Aes Sedai if Mat died. Turns of phrase that obviously arn't meant to be taken seriously can be spoken in spite of the oaths.