Why you so crazy Masema?

[aevogt]

I'm starting to think maybe Masema is being run by one of the Chosen.  I searched the boards but couldn't find anything pertinent on this.

 

He started to worship Rand at the end of TGH

 

Moraine sends the Shienarians to Ghealdan and it is here that Masema starts preaching fairly quickly.  Soon enough that word reaches the crew following Rand within a month.

 

Like maybe he's being Capital "C" Compelled to sow Chaos.  Like Elza is Compelled, after a fashion in any case, by Verin to follow Rand and she becomes almost feverish with the desire for him to survive to TG.  It seems like that same kind of single-minded obsession that stems from the use of Compulsion.

 

Is it possible that seeing Rand fight what was then assumed to be the DO in the sky over Falme changed him into the Prophet when he wasn't even in the battle, but miles away.  Maybe.

 

It's probably another example of something seeming too easy because it is just that, but it's still curious.

 

When Perrin shows up, it's pretty obvious Masema has not desire to go to see Rand and refuses to Travel.  However, he has no qualms about jumping through a gateway to aid in the search for Faile, a search that coincidentally puts off his confrontation with Rand.

 

I don't see this as reluctance because of his overzealousness.  Zealots aren't likely to be concerned about what anyone (including the subject of their zealousness) thinks of their methods.  Mostly because they're usually too crazy.

 

I don't really know where I'm going with this but I'm halfway through TFoH and Masema has just gone so far off the deep end it seems like there is something more behind it.

 

Unless Demandred disguised himself as one of the unnamed Shienarians 9 books ago, it doesn't make much sense.  The entire Prophet scenario could be taken out without changing too much (except the disappointing resolution with Aram) so that makes me think I may be missing something important.

 

 

[wvlr]

How old was Masema?

 

Could he possible be a low level sparker that channeled without intending to and the Taint drove him crazy immediately?

 

Didn't we hear at the BT that some go mad on the first time?

 

 

 

 

 

If not that, then probably one of the Forsaken did something to him.

[Majsju]

Masema snapped when he saw Rand fighting Ishy above Falme. That is what initially drove him crazy. Of course one of the forsaken later might have decided that a raving lunatic with his own private army is just too good of an opportunity to not use somehow.

 

We don't know exactly how old he is, but he is quite a bit older than rand, which makes it extremely unlikely he would be a sparker that all of a sudden started channeling.

[wvlr]

I thought that RJ said that a man could spark much later that a woman does?

 

Sorry I don't have a quote - feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

 

(Like you EVER needed my permission to do that!)    :D :D :D :D

[Guest Dreadlord]

My guess is that Demandred ha been using him as a dupe. Cant remember when but Im sure one of the Forsaken mentioned that the events concerning the Dragonsworn (or may have been the country they started in, cant remember) had the look of Demandreds doing

[Shendare]

I thought that RJ said that a man could spark much later that a woman does?

 

Coincidentally, I ran across the quote for this just today while listening to my sparkly new New Spring audiobook.

 

New Spring, chapter 3, seventh CD track:

 

Girls sometimes, if rarely, began channeling as young as twelve or thirteen if they were born with the spark. But even with the spark, boys never did before eighteen or nineteen unless they tried to learn how, and in some men the spark did not come out until they were as old as thirty.

 

To me, "as old as thirty" sounds like 30 is the oldest one would expect a man with the spark to first channel Saidin.

[Majsju]

In the case of Masema, you have to keep in mind his background. The spark should manifest itself when the person is exposed to a great deal of stress (like Rands first time). Masema served three years fighting the Aiel, something that seems to have been quite a traumatic experience, concidering his attitude towards Rand in TGH. If that did not set of the spark, he does not have it.

 

Irrelevant though. His madness is so obviously caused by seeing Rand fighting Ishy, and realising Rand is the Dragon Reborn (and some guilt for how he has treated the Dragon Reborn).

 

Also, if he had been taint-mad for so long, he should have some of the physical sickness as well, but he seems to be in the shape of his life.

[trakand_01]

I have always considered Masema to be simply an absolutely obsessed supporter of the Dragon Reborn, but one without any actual authority other than that which he has bestowed upon himself. One who has taken it upon himself to become Prophet.

 

I think Masema saw Rand fighting Ishy and idolised him. Became a worshipper. Perhaps his personality / psyche is / was such that his personal method of supporting someone is not to do it quietly and rationally, but to become completely obsessed and fanatical, a little like a teenager becoming obsessed with a pop-star.

 

You see it happen sometimes; people are very anti- a certain thing, they have no time for it, are rude to / about it and have no care for it. Then something changes their mind, and they become supporters. Quite often they become more avid and irrational supporters than those who have always been pro-whatever.

 

Also Masema HAD met Rand before, it was his claim to fame. However the last time he saw him, he was rude to him. Seeing him fight Ishy obviously changed his opinions, made him into the alter-ego of what Masema had originally thought. Perhaps out of guilt for the way he had treated him, out of fear of what the mighty Dragon Reborn might do to someone who was rude to him, he became a follower. Better than that, he thought 'how can i help the DR? I know, I'll spread the word'.

 

Now put yourself in Masema's shoes; you are fanatical about the DR, have been taking actions in their name, supposedly with their authority, and due to your inexperience, lack of intelligence and crazed fanaticism have created havoc everywhere you have gone.

 

Would you want to come face to face with Rand?

[BrainFireBob]

Demandred.

 

How do you think madman Masema and his rabble routed several professional armies without taking serious losses? A real general was pulling the strings. Plus, targetting the religious movement around Rand and undermining it into a horrid lie fits Demandred's MO and obsession with Rand.

[aevogt]

BFB - That's a pretty good call.  On the other hand, they always outnumbered the soldiers, didn't seem to be concerned with casualties to their own ranks and Masema was a borderland trained soldier himself.

 

On the other hand, what bothers me about my whole theory is that Masema and Perrin have been right on top of each other for quite a while, like the last four books.  Considering that the Chosen have standing orders to kill Perrin (and Mat) on sight, wouldn't there have been some concerted - read that successful - efforts by  Masema's "control" to put Perrin down for a dirt nap, since they would know more or less exactly where he is.  One of the Chosen sent all those darkhounds and they didn't have to skirt the camp.  50 darkhounds would have slaughtered everyone present and I doubt Grady and Neald could have stopped them.

 

 

Though it may be another caswe of information not filtering up.

[Guest Dreadlord]

QUOTE

On the other hand, what bothers me about my whole theory is that Masema and Perrin have been right on top of each other for quite a while, like the last four books.  Considering that the Chosen have standing orders to kill Perrin (and Mat) on sight, wouldn't there have been some concerted - read that successful - efforts by  Masema's "control" to put Perrin down for a dirt nap, since they would know more or less exactly where he is.  One of the Chosen sent all those darkhounds and they didn't have to skirt the camp.  50 darkhounds would have slaughtered everyone present and I doubt Grady and Neald could have stopped them.

UNQUOTE

 

Demandreds dupe was snatched up by a passing ta'veren is the way I see it. Demandred lost control of Masema when Perrin turned up. I dont think Masema is a Darkfriend, maybe Demandred used Compulsion on Masema to make him serve. That would explain why no attacks have been made against Perrin

[Majsju]

Considering that the Chosen have standing orders to kill Perrin (and Mat) on sight, wouldn't there have been some concerted - read that successful - efforts by  Masema's "control" to put Perrin down for a dirt nap, since they would know more or less exactly where he is.

 

The order to kill Perrin and Mat came in KOD. Incidently, later in that book we see Aeam, who has spent a lot of time with Masema, try to kill Perrin. He even admits having been talked into it by Masema.

[aussie_ashaman123]

i have a feeling that masema in the shienaran solder you saw in the prologue of TGH, his orders maybe have been to create as much chaos as possible if the opportunity came.

 

It could also be Masema is just a mad, deluded fool. Using the power to travel quickly when your feet and horses will do is one thing, but using the power to hunt the enemies of the dragon reborn is another. perrin is shadowspawn, obviously sent to corrupt the purity on the dragon reborn, and those who do not readily follow the dragon reborn must be darkfriends. Every act he has done is logical if you think from the position that the sun rises only because rand wishes it to

[Majsju]

i have a feeling that masema in the shienaran solder you saw in the prologue of TGH, his orders maybe have been to create as much chaos as possible if the opportunity came.

 

I would rather think that the Shienarian is Ingtar, a confirmed DF who plays an important part in TGH...