Respect due Aes Sedai

[Daedallus]

There is a running thread through the books, mostly put foward by women, but re-inforced by the whole culture at some level. That Aes Sedai are to be shown respect on the level, or above that of Nobility. Almost all of Rand's trouble with Aes Sedai in Camelyn and Cairhein came from them not getting his "respect"

 

One of the reason's Egwene has kept aloof from rand is because he doesn't show enough respect for aes sedai.

 

my question is, why are people that were just lucky enough to be born with the channeling spark due such respect and authority? other than fear, it just doesn't make any sense to me. Is there an underlying religeous reason? given that they can touch the One Power? and are theofore considered somehow holy?

[DuDZiK]

There is a running thread through the books, mostly put foward by women, but re-inforced by the whole culture at some level. That Aes Sedai are to be shown respect on the level, or above that of Nobility. Almost all of Rand's trouble with Aes Sedai in Camelyn and Cairhein came from them not getting his "respect"

 

One of the reason's Egwene has kept aloof from rand is because he doesn't show enough respect for aes sedai.

 

my question is, why are people that were just lucky enough to be born with the channeling spark due such respect and authority? other than fear, it just doesn't make any sense to me. Is there an underlying religeous reason? given that they can touch the One Power? and are theofore considered somehow holy?

 

No religious reason per se, it's the exact same with the nobility you'll notice. That's a common thing for such a society, where birth is still considered all important and those born into wealth, power, and prestige believe they were raised slightly above the rest of humanity by God because of their birth. That at least was the case in human history up to the modern era, and I imagine that RJ may have emulated this with his nobles and maybe even his Aes Sedai.

[Chel Vanin]

Now this is an interesting topic to me, ever since i reading TSR where egewene makes the observation that wise ones and windfinders are given honored places in their societies without hiding behind the three oaths. I recently puschased a book (now i'm gonna have to look it up) that gives kind of an overview of the WoT world by RJ, and in the AoL it says that AS were honored and respected but they actually lived up to the name "servants of all" by using the OP to do specific tasks. AS who were good with earth used that to mine ores without damaging the earth, AS who could control the weather made it so natural disasters were virtually eliminated. Since everything was provided for in the AoL there was very little greed because anyone could get almost anything. So, instead everyone tried to serve as much as possible to be honored by society. After the bore was drilled evil was let into the world, then follows the War of Power and blahblah.

 

AS now days try to pull strings and control what happens in randland, which naturally makes people nervous of them especially with their powers that most people simply don't understand. I feel if AS hadn't tried to control everyone all the time maybe they wouldn't have to hide behind their three oaths, and maybe they would get some respect such as the windfinders and the wise ones get. Sure AS get respect now but the general populace fears AS more than respects them.

 

personal opinion of course.

[Majsju]

Aes Sedai are by far the most educated people in Randland, and the tests they have to go through in order to become Aes Sedai are tougher than the typical "nobility" can even dream of. Add to that the experience that comes by living some +200 years, and you have a pretty good base for respect.

 

And if I had been living in Randland, I would have been very grateful that there was one group of people looking at the big picture, and being there to lecture the "nobility" when they get more stupid and selfish than usual.

[Daedallus]

The comment about a group of people looking at the big picture doesn't hold water for me Majsju. We know that the white tower has as many machinations as any country's nobility, and more. The Average Aes Sedai has also shown that she can be just as petty, obtuse, and downright wrong as any farmwife or noble.

 

Now, Education has its advantages. And life lessons from long a long life definatly add up. But, most Aes Sedai expect people to bown down to them just because of the title. They literally ooze ego. Its as if because they can channel, they should never have to. Because people should just do as they say, like the ability to channel gives them a Moral Authority and Divine Right.

[Majsju]

Without the White Tower pulling strings, there would not be a world for rand to unite. Randland would look very much like the parallell world rand visits in TGH.

Even someone as messed up as Elaida thinks she acts for the greater good. She is extremely self-absorbed, and thinks about her personal glory etc, but her actions are still motivated by a wish to fight the Shadow and see the Light win TG. Whereas most "nobility" still seem to not even believe that the DO is about to break free.

 

And of course, if Aes Sedai had seen the mere ability to channel as a reason to earn respect, they would hardly have the attitude towards wilders that they do have.

[Lews_Windu]

Aes Sedai are the most arrogant group of people in Randland. They expect all countries to obey them and nigh worship- and do absolutely nothing to earn that level of trust. All their 'big picture' machinations is for their own gain, and there are many examples of Aes Sedai completely abandoning that view whenever it suits them (Bohnwin and Manetheren).

 

Within the series, the only thing the Aes Sedai have done besides make more problems for the Light is use the Bowl of Winds. That's it. Every other decision the Aes Sedai have made since the beginning of the series has done nothing but put another political swamp in the way of the good guys.

 

And Egwene is one of the worst offenders. All she cares about is making the White Tower whole. The fact that Tarmon Gai'don is months, perhaps weeks away is nothing more than an afterthought. And her arrogance makes it impossible for her to see Rand as an equal. Which leads me to the theory that in AMoL, either Egwene is going to be forced to shape up, or Rand is going to bring her under his control directly, as it's becoming clear that if the Asha'man really wanted to, they could probably defeat the White Tower

[RobertAlexWillis]

Without the White Tower pulling strings, there would not be a world for rand to unite. Randland would look very much like the parallell world rand visits in TGH.

 

I'm not sure I agree with that assessment at all.  The Seanchan, the Sharans, the Aiel, and the Sea Folk have all survived and even flourished without the White Tower.

 

The Aes Sedai deliberately try to portray themselves as more than human (Elayne opines internally about it in some detail in TPoD ch 3, about how Aes Sedai try to maintain the image of being "a different flesh").  But for all their supposed education and long life, they have demonstrated the full range of human faults and frailties.

 

I would maintain (and have, in other places) that Elaida is motivated more by personal ambition, and that if that means the Light wins, great.  The Aes Sedai as individuals run the whole gamut from almost entirely selfless and dedicated to good principles to knowingly sunk to their eyebrows in the most horrific evil imaginable.  Just like the nobility.  Just like the regular ordinary people of Randland. 

 

The nobility (especially in places like Tear and Seanchan) pretend that they have a right to rule because of their descent.  The Aes Sedai do pretend that simply by being able to channel strongly they have a right to rule everywhere, and that their organization should be able to dictate to all channelers.  Rand pretends that he has a right to rule simply because he is the Dragon Reborn.  Its all a load ... but people have, do, and will continue to think that way in real life, and Jordan portrays that human tendency very realistically.

[dyring]

Tbh. Often its pretty much the same as a thug demanding respect because he can whack you on the head real hard.

 

Bit more sophisticated, but thats still pretty much the core of it.

 

Generally imho, the people who demand respect the highest, are often the ones who deserves it the least.

 

 

[DuDZiK]

Aes Sedai are by far the most educated people in Randland, and the tests they have to go through in order to become Aes Sedai are tougher than the typical "nobility" can even dream of. Add to that the experience that comes by living some +200 years, and you have a pretty good base for respect.

 

And if I had been living in Randland, I would have been very grateful that there was one group of people looking at the big picture, and being there to lecture the "nobility" when they get more stupid and selfish than usual.

 

It is possible to respect people for specific traits and achievements rather than the person as a whole. For instance, though I greatly disrespect Hitler as a person, I have to respect his intelligence and abilities as a politician.

 

Similarly, I can respect the Aes Sedai for their abilities and their intelligence, but some of the Aes Sedai in terms of being human beings - how they behave, what their personalities are etc - are less than respectable. Respect should be given unconditionally to someone, it should be earned through a person's own works and not because they belong to an organization or a social group.

 

Another problem is that the Aes Sedai's defenition of 'respect' seems to be a bit different than people would expect. 'Respect' to an Aes Sedai means normal respect, and absolute deference at the same time, plus some other things I believe. Their demands for respect come rather arrogantly and in a bully-like manner, which I think should exclude them from being respect worthy in certain ways.

 

For instance, though Wise Ones are essentially the Aes Sedai of the Aiel I think they are more worthy of respect than Aes Sedai in general.

[Baldar]

I think Randland could very well be a better place without the WT. There would still be a group or groups who can channel, much like the Kin, but I doubt they would be quite so obnoxious. Over the centuries there's been too much power focused there and that just breeds corruption.

[Guest leebarr]

Aes Sedai need taken down a pag or six as Mat would say. Respect is earned and they have not earned it, they have taken a step back by the actions they have shown others.

[Chel Vanin]

Aes Sedai need taken down a pag or six as Mat would say.

 

I kind of think they have been takendown quite a few pegs in the last couple years. In EotW they went from being just about as powerful as ever in the last 3,000 years (their numbers are down, they've lost talents but they seemed to be in control of randland pretty firmly) to having the white tower broken, two amyrlins, ajah's all but battling, sisters being bonded by men who can channel, sisters becoming damane (few but still), sisters swearing oaths to Rand, and just generally being wooped up on the entire series.

 

To me it seems the "respect due" AS has taken a very great blow in the last two years.

 

edited to clarify a point.

[Kevin Fitzgerald]

Aes Sedai appear to expect respect mainly for actions of the past.

 

They have however done several things even in recent years.

Negotiating peace in wars

Stopping False Dragons

Healing

Fighting the blight

 

Only the Wise Ones have done as much.

The Kin have tried in small amounts (eg Wisdoms and Wise Women) but there need stay hidden has meant they have not be able to chase dragons or stop wars.

Sea folk seem to have great ignored most of what the one power can do except its weather properties.

 

Because of there nogotiating and removal of False Dragons most of the current kingdoms owe there borders to Aes Sedai weather they admit it publicly or not.

When a ruler offers respect to someone the people follow. Whe it happens for centuries it becomes expected.