Cyndane/Lanfear

[Jedimuppet]

Well, in another thread we're having a debate about whether Cyndane is really Lanfear reincarnated. I thought this was common knowledge, and obvious.

 

Am I failing to look deeply enough, or am I justified in being content at not having it spelled out for me?

[Kadere]

I've got to agree, I think WH made it pretty obvious.

[HighLordXanthus]

well i had to vote that way, but hey, how could i not after all the stink i was throwing out

[HighLordXanthus]

jedi-

 

perhaps edit in an option of doubt either way

[Kadere]

It COULD just be the result of the Finn's but I don't think we have enough evidence yet to say that it was. We still don't really know what happened in Finnland, and all we really know is that Agnior and Balthamel and Ishy all changed appearences after they died. COULD her change be because that was the price she had to pay? Maybe, it's certainly an interesting theory. I just don't think we have enough evidence yet to tell the difference.

[HighLordXanthus]

I guess my strongest argument is that the one first hand comment by cyndane/lanfear in WH about being held by the finn's.

 

Then the woman struck back at her, and she suffered her second shock. She was stronger the Cyndane had been before the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn held her! That was impossible; no woman could be stronger. She must have and angreal, too.(Winter's Heart, chapter 35, page 649, hb)

[Jedimuppet]

I guess my strongest argument is that the one first hand comment by cyndane/lanfear in WH about being held by the finn's.

 

Then the woman struck back at her' date=' and she suffered her second shock. She was stronger the Cyndane had been before the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn held her! That was impossible; no woman could be stronger. She must have and angreal, too.(Winter's Heart, chapter 35, page 649, hb)[/quote']

 

To that, all I'll do is throw back your comment you made when you first found that quote.

 

That just proves she was held by finns - nothing else.

J

[HighLordXanthus]

That quote also leads us to believe that her new lesser ability in the power was a result of being held

[Jedimuppet]

That quote also leads us to believe that her new lesser ability in the power was a result of being held

 

Do you think the finns have also mindtrapped her, then?

J

[Jedimuppet]

jedi-

 

perhaps edit in an option of doubt either way

 

That would be other...

J

[HighLordXanthus]

no the mindtrap is most definitaly held by moridin, but that could have been set after her release/rescue from the finn's

[Jedimuppet]

no the mindtrap is most definitaly held by moridin' date=' but that could have been set after her release/rescue from the finn's[/quote']

 

I know, but I think it's ironic that the DO holds her tight, and was the last one to hold her, and yet you assume everything except that one thing was done to her by the Finns. Logically, it just seems weak.

J

[Kadere]

I think that quote only shows us that she was stronger before she went to the Finn's. What I mean is, she was powerful, she went to the Finns and SOMETHING happened, and now she's weaker. That something could be her death (the Finn's certainly tried to kill Mat) or the extraction of her beauty and power. I don't think there's enough in that quote to determine what that something was.

 

If it was simply a extraction of her beauty and power then why change her name? Wouldn't she still be Lanfear? The DO, I would think, must have reincarnated her thus why she's been out of the picture for so long, why she's mindtrapped to Moridin, why she has a different body, and why she has a different name.

[HighLordXanthus]

you must also remember that all other transmigrated forsaken have been of similar body type. Moridin is tall and dark of hair. Aran'gar has black hair and fair skin. Osan'gar the best I could find was a reference to both osan'gar's and aran'gar's new bodies being the best that could be found in the borderlands.

 

Cyndane in contrast is short, blue eyed, with long silvery hair.

 

All the former are typical borderland stock, expecially the 'gar's being specifically told so. Why not Cyndane? Her description fits more for a Cairhien women then borderlanders.

[Jedimuppet]

you must also remember that all other transmigrated forsaken have been of similar body type. Moridin is tall and dark of hair. Aran'gar has black hair and fair skin. Osan'gar the best I could find was a reference to both osan'gar's and aran'gar's new bodies being the best that could be found in the borderlands.

 

Cyndane in contrast is short' date=' blue eyed, with long silvery hair.

 

All the former are typical borderland stock, expecially the 'gar's being specifically told so. Why not Cyndane? Her description fits more for a Cairhien women then borderlanders.[/quote']

 

Now you're just grasping at straws..

J

[HighLordXanthus]

I think that quote only shows us that she was stronger before she went to the Finn's. What I mean is' date=' she was powerful, she went to the Finns and SOMETHING happened, and now she's weaker. That something could be her death (the Finn's certainly tried to kill Mat) or the extraction of her beauty and power. I don't think there's enough in that quote to determine what that something was.

 

If it was simply a extraction of her beauty and power then why change her name? Wouldn't she still be Lanfear? The DO, I would think, must have reincarnated her thus why she's been out of the picture for so long, why she's mindtrapped to Moridin, why she has a different body, and why she has a different name.[/quote']

 

The name change could just be punishment to go along with the mindtrap. I am not saying I am right and you all are wrong. Just that I think the evidence points either way. I happen to believe it more likely that she did not die as a result of her hold ing in finland

[Jedimuppet]

I think that quote only shows us that she was stronger before she went to the Finn's. What I mean is' date=' she was powerful, she went to the Finns and SOMETHING happened, and now she's weaker. That something could be her death (the Finn's certainly tried to kill Mat) or the extraction of her beauty and power. I don't think there's enough in that quote to determine what that something was.

 

If it was simply a extraction of her beauty and power then why change her name? Wouldn't she still be Lanfear? The DO, I would think, must have reincarnated her thus why she's been out of the picture for so long, why she's mindtrapped to Moridin, why she has a different body, and why she has a different name.[/quote']

 

The name change could just be punishment to go along with the mindtrap. I am not saying I am right and you all are wrong. Just that I think the evidence points either way. I happen to believe it more likely that she did not die as a result of her hold ing in finland

 

No one knows how she died. It's not certain it was as a result of the Finns. The only thing that is certain is that she died sometime after going through the door.

J

[HighLordXanthus]

But it is not certain, just assumed that she did in fact died. you know what happens when you assume

[Jedimuppet]

But it is not certain' date=' just assumed that she did in fact died. you know what happens when you assume[/quote']

 

Whatever you say.

J

[Guest Majsju]

Well, her new name definitly suggests that she did die. "Last chance"

[Kadere]

oooooooooo... and Majsju brings in a very good point!

[rd2000]

Ok, while I firmly believe that Lanfear died and was brought back as Cyndane, I am willing to discuss the possibility that somehow instead of dieing, Lanfear's soul was transferred from one body to another while the previous body had nothing dire wrong with it. The only reason WHY would be that the DO was unable to retrieve said body (Lanfear's) and needed her to continue the fight against the Light. So, DO readies a new body (Cyndane) and zaps her soul from her living body into the new one.

 

Another possiblity is Lanfear was able to get into Tel' while under custody of Finns & Co. and had to disguise herself to do so (therefore the Cyndane look)Met up with someone who could "rip" her out of Tel' and bonded her to keep her alive or the mindtrap somehow keeps one alive after being ripped out of Tel' the same as a bond does.

 

I still say she died.

[Kadere]

but why transfer her soul then? If her body is fine, why not rescue her old body?

[rd2000]

Because she was being held captive by Finns. The DO found it easier to just zap her into a new body than risk anymore DF or Forsaken lives by mounting a rescue.

 

Remember, I still believe she died, just playing devil's advocate here.

[HighLordXanthus]

your forget Lord Luc/Isam seems to be able to travel some what freely into the tower of ghenji. If we do take it to be true that the finn's just held her, imposed the price of a new body and ability level for her life, then all luc/isam must do is go get her. Not easy, but possible as we know in moiraine's case.

 

Although it is a small connection, if this is so, it does tie in nicely to the mindtrap. Moghedien also had to be rescued, then placed into a mind trap. Note that is the single other forsaken held by one. And she never died. Just betrayed the DO by her capture by Nynaeve and Elayne. Lanfear similarly betrayed the DO, but to a greater degree.

 

Asmodean also betrayed the DO, was killed and never reborn. Why then would he make the effort to resurrect a traiter for lanfear?