Topple the monarchies

[Mashiara O Aan.a--ein]

Emond's Field is run by a group of men (name?), the Women's circle, and the mayor, right? So Rand and company have basically been raised around a governing system kind of like a semi-democracy/republic. Even the White Tower has a system of electing representatives, and the Amyrlin does not have absolute power.

 

So why are all the characters okay with the monarchy stuff?  ??? Rand goes around claiming places (yes, I know he's the Dragon and all...) and everyone's cool with Elayne becoming queen. Why?

 

I would assume they wouldn't like the idea of kings and queens.

[Luckers]

Autocratic social set ups usually work specifically because the people in them seem to believe there is some inherent right established by birth/god. And we witness this pervasive social belief even in Emmonds Field--look at the way Mat and Rand react to the 'Lady' Moiraine.

[Davian93]

Which does mean he has concidered referencing it, not that he actually had a specific nmoment in mind.

 

There arent any revolutionaries in Randland because no one has thought of it.  Monarchies are all they know.  They don't have any history of democracy like we do with the Greek and Roman republics.  Sure they are fine with villiage level elections but after that they are fine to just let the King/Queen handle the big stuff.  The places that do have issues with the nobles (tear, cairhien) are where the nobles hold every shred of power.  In the Borderlands, they need a strong centralized govt to countre the ever present threat of the Blight so monarchies make sense there.  I'm sure it will happen eventually just not anytime soon.

[Luckers]

Well, you really shouldn't make the mistake of thinking that people inherently revere or respect democracy. And indeed, there are plenty of democratically elected governments in Randland--the Aes Sedai and Far Madding being the obvious examples if your looking for a national level.

 

The issue both then and now is in perception. They have the socialized belief in the inherent right of blood descended lines of power--even in those places that have some form of elected government. The same can be said of the modern world with the silly perception of democracy as some form of perfect method of government.

 

The ultimate cause is that human beings tend to sanctify things that work. Monarchies in terms of rough social order worked, and we sanctified it just as the Randlanders do. Democracy works slightly better, and thus we currently sanctify it in turn.

 

But for that realisation to occur you need education on a universal scale, otherwise people undermine their own position, and respect the 'inherent' system.

[Magicana]

In Randland, the monarchy isn't broken - so why fix it.

 

I guess the Andorian system would kind of fit into the Chinese system mixed with England. Chinese because of the different houses that can claim the throne, British because of the strong female queens and the displeasure that the monarch y can face - I'm not sure what nation on earth would have allowed that though.

[Davian93]

British because of the strong female queens and the displeasure that the monarch y can face - I'm not sure what nation on earth would have allowed that though.

 

Britain doesn't exactly have a strong tradition of female queens (present monarch excepted).  That is unless you want to count 4 queens in 500 years a strong tradition.  They actually go by Salic Law where a female cannot inherit the throne unless there is no viable male heir. 

[Magicana]

British because of the strong female queens and the displeasure that the monarch y can face - I'm not sure what nation on earth would have allowed that though.

 

Britain doesn't exactly have a strong tradition of female queens (present monarch excepted).  That is unless you want to count 4 queens in 500 years a strong tradition.  They actually go by Salic Law where a female cannot inherit the throne unless there is no viable male heir. 

 

Hmm I don't know too much about British history, thats for sure.

 

Apart from that, I can't think of any matriarchal system, or any others with strong female queens.

[Mashiara O Aan.a--ein]

But Emond's Field is much more demcratic than, say, Andor...so after living in that setting, I would have thought Rand and the others would be aginst monarchies. It's true that they knew the monarchies existed, but isn't it weird to suddenly switch from democracy to monarchy? They were already used to a more democratic system.

[Luckers]

Well, keep in mind that from their point of view they are just common farmers--practical and undoubtedly functioning very well as a community, but that doesn't mean that they reguard their method as being better the monarchies--everyone in their society are equal at the very bottom of the social hierarchy of the land, so that enables democracy, but when those of higher station come through they show the same wide-eyed respect for nobility as anyone else--look at how they reacted to Moiraine, or how, when Perrin stepped forward and attained higher authority they immediately in their own minds ascended above their social rank and into that of the nobility.

 

Their democracy does not work on the idea that everyone is eqaul, it works on the idea that none of their betters are around, so by default they establish a democratic right because none amongst them has the intrinsic right to rule. The Aes Sedai are the reverse, because when you become Aes Sedai you are all raised to the highest social rank, so none of their lessers are about--and again you have a default equality forming.

 

It's not a true democracy, and all of it fits in with the widespread socialized autocracy.

[Nerevar]

I guess because Emond's Field is isolated from external threats because it is protected by the monarchy of Andor. In real life Monarchies have proven to be beneficial to the countries, for one example Mussolini was taken down thanks to the support of the Italian Monarchy, Britain has always been one of the most sucessfull countries which can be attributed to its constant monarchy.

[DemandredFO]

Rand and the others don't have a boatload of time to establish the infrastructure associated with a democracy.  They need to do what works, after Tarmon Gai'don and after they've finishing trouncing Shadowspawn, they can go about how they wish

[Orange Fescue]

British because of the strong female queens and the displeasure that the monarch y can face - I'm not sure what nation on earth would have allowed that though.

 

Britain doesn't exactly have a strong tradition of female queens (present monarch excepted).  That is unless you want to count 4 queens in 500 years a strong tradition.  They actually go by Salic Law where a female cannot inherit the throne unless there is no viable male heir. 

Actually, under Salic Law, females cannot inherit at all. Sort of a gender-reversed version of Andoran Law where males cannot inherit the Lion Throne. Britain is under male-preference primogeniture where a king or queen's sons take precedence over daughters but daughters take precedence over their reigning parent's brothers and sisters. That's why Britain and Hannover no longer have a united monarchy--Hannover was under Salic Law so Queen Victoria got Britain and Hannover passed to her father's younger brother, the Duke of Cumberland. If females could only become queen of Britain without a "viable male heir", Victoria's uncle would have become king of Britain as well and she would have stayed Princess Victoria of Kent.

[Davian93]

Good catch...it was the Hanover connection I must have been thinking of...that along with the fact that the heir must be protestant to be viable...hence the throne going to Anne instead of several better male claimants.(i.e. the entire Stuart family).