Perrin as Lord of Two Rivers ( who loves it and who hates it)

[Wayhey]

Frankly ... I'm not entirely sure (as I've expressed elsewhere) that the post Tarmon Gaidon world will really resemble, physically, the current world at all, so most of these questions may be moot points.  I think its gonna be alot worse than some people think ...

 

Well, that I will buy.  Reality is crumbling, after all.

 

Oh, and the broken crown could just represent Manetheren (being a destroyed kingdom and all) and Perrin taking over that area under its banner.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Oh, and the broken crown could just represent Manetheren (being a destroyed kingdom and all) and Perrin taking over that area under its banner.

 

Thats a lot more of a stretch than getting the "Broken Crown" from the woman he's already married to ... you know thats the title of the Saldaean crown, right?

[Wayhey]

Nope, I either missed that one or forgot it.

[Orange Fescue]

I'm sorry, but Lan is not going to be the King of anything.  First off, for alot of reasons, he's the least likely character to survive Tarmon Gai'don.  Second, he has no claim to any throne but Malkier's, and Malkier is not coming back.  Third, he doesn't want the job, so even if he survives, and all three other rulers die, he won't be taking the job.

 

Why wouldn't Malkier come back?  The land was swallowed by the Blight, and since Rand will likely win TG, wouldn't the Blight completely disappear afterward?  Now if Lan doesn't survive (along with many of his fellow Malkieri in exile) then of course forget it, but it could happen.  I think Lan will die only if Nynaeve dies.

That brings up a question about what will happen when the blight retreats after TG. We know from comments in Faile's povs that Saldea is absurdly cold. "People freeze to death in a Saldean spring" and so forth. Being at the same latitude, I would assume that the other borderlands are just as cold. When Moiraine led our intrepid band into the Blight, the text commented that it was much warmer than it should be for someplace that far north. How does the Blight affect climate in the Borderlands? Does the heat there in any way warm the Borderlands or protect them from Arctic winds that would otherwise make the climate even colder? If so, would the area formerly occupied by Malkier even be habitable if the Blight disappeared instead of just retreating?

[RobertAlexWillis]

How does the Blight affect climate in the Borderlands? Does the heat there in any way warm the Borderlands or protect them from Arctic winds that would otherwise make the climate even colder? If so, would the area formerly occupied by Malkier even be habitable if the Blight disappeared instead of just retreating?

 

It probably would turn into tundra at best.  Clean, but very cold. 

 

Hey, Nynaeve could be a real Ice Queen then!  ;D

[Jonn]

Orange Fescue:

 

Perhaps the axis of the earth is skewed a bit compared to the map we are all familiar with.

 

What this would mean is that Saldea could be situated farther north if the western half of the map is skewed north. This would mean that Malkier would be a bit more southern than we could tell just by looking at the map. The Earth is round after all.

 

Besides that, the concept is relative. I mean, many people in, say, Germany or some parts of maybe...China, could say that it gets "absurdly cold" where they live. Yet, geographically, they are south of Scotland on the maps, yet people live in Scotland. How about Sweden and Alaska?

Altitude is a consideration. Terrain. Makier was the land of a thousand lakes...the salinity of the lakes could affect the climate I guess.

 

I suppose there are a lot of factors.

 

It's relative. I mean, I can barely stand the thought of living in Chicago, and I used to live there when I was a young kid. The snow was awful, and it made me sick. Still, people live there, and a lot of people love living there. It's their home. I'm sure that a lot of people from that region can't think of themselves living in a place like southern California, where the air quality is dodgy, there is the constant fear of a giant earthquake coming to kill everyone, and the whole place just goes up in flames every other year.

 

If the Blight retreated from Malkier, there would be the things that made it worth calling home. These things would still exist, and people would return to those things.

[Orange Fescue]

Orange Fescue:

 

Perhaps the axis of the earth is skewed a bit compared to the map we are all familiar with.

 

What this would mean is that Saldea could be situated farther north if the western half of the map is skewed north. This would mean that Malkier would be a bit more southern than we could tell just by looking at the map. The Earth is round after all.

 

Besides that, the concept is relative. I mean, many people in, say, Germany or some parts of maybe...China, could say that it gets "absurdly cold" where they live. Yet, geographically, they are south of Scotland on the maps, yet people live in Scotland. How about Sweden and Alaska?

Altitude is a consideration. Terrain. Makier was the land of a thousand lakes...the salinity of the lakes could affect the climate I guess.

 

I suppose there are a lot of factors.

 

It's relative. I mean, I can barely stand the thought of living in Chicago, and I used to live there when I was a young kid. The snow was awful, and it made me sick. Still, people live there, and a lot of people love living there. It's their home. I'm sure that a lot of people from that region can't think of themselves living in a place like southern California, where the air quality is dodgy, there is the constant fear of a giant earthquake coming to kill everyone, and the whole place just goes up in flames every other year.

 

If the Blight retreated from Malkier, there would be the things that made it worth calling home. These things would still exist, and people would return to those things.

Certainly, heat and cold are relative. I live in Texas and you should have seen the look on some Germans' faces when I told them the temperature gets to 104F/40C here in the summer. You'd think I'd told them I lived in an active volcano and bathed in lava. That being said, RJ always has taken care to emphasize how cold the Borderlands are--the snow after being captured by the Shaido is like a Saldean spring, people freeze to death in Saldean springs, trees burst from the cold and so forth. My point was that the Borderlands are very cold. If the Blight warms them or otherwise affects their climate the way the jet stream warms Scotland and much of Europe, would the climate change when the Blight is removed?

 

Certainly, people live in Alaska and other places far too cold for my Southron blood to tolerate. Scotland is a lovely place in July and August with lovely, springlike weather (by my standards) but I wouldn't go near it in winter. If you look at a map of Alaska, there are towns but the population is very thin and tends to cluster in the south and the coast. As you move north and into the interior, population thins considerably. The state doesn't support the population density or the level of farming that one would see in Virginia or Iowa (or Scotland, or Sweden, or Illinois, to use your examples). It's just too cold. Same with Greenland. Or northern Canada. Or Siberia. If the average temperature drops too far in the Borderlands and the climate changes too much, they may not be able to support their population. Crops will drop or cease altogether and people will have to migrate south just to be able to eat, no matter how much they hate to leave home. You can't eat snow.

[CUBAREY]

Quote

we don't know the specific rules of succession, but it is indicated during Nynaeve's testing for Accepted that common practice in the Borderlands is that married couples rule jointly. 

 

Actually, I was basing my assumption that Perrin will be Prince consort and not king on commen European and Asian practice.  In Medevil France, The Holy Roman Empire, Japan and even England the wife of the king was called a Queen, but when the king died her title either ended or she was called the Queen mother.  In cases where the Monarch can be a woman (not medevil France or Japan) the Queen's husband was usually given the title of Prince Consort (as is the case in England; Pince Albert husband of Queen Victoria, Prince Phillip husband to Elizabeth II) Indeed, the only example of real joint rule I can recall, off the top of my head, is William and Mary of England (and the Glorious Revolution had a lot to do with their joint rule).

 

Also as an aside the King of Melkier seem not to have  been necessarily hereditary- Lan's father was "elected" in a similar way to medevil Danish Kings (see Shakespeare's Hamlet).

 

In addition, I recall that it was discussed someplace in one of the books that before a hole was bored innto the prison of the DO Shal Ghul(sic) was the sight of a vacation island where people went to fish. So after T.G. if the blight recedes the land of Melkier shouid be habitable.  It may be just my own predelictions but I see the borderlands (georaphically) like our Scandinavian countries. Quite north in latitude but quite habitable. Another example would be the American state of Minnesota; gets to be quite cold in the winter but like Melkier has a lot of lakes and can support a relatively large population.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Actually, I was basing my assumption that Perrin will be Prince consort and not king on commen European and Asian practice.

 

Yeah.  I know what you were basing your assumption on.  I was saying you're probably wrong.

 

In addition, I recall that it was discussed someplace in one of the books that before a hole was bored innto the prison of the DO Shal Ghul(sic) was the sight of a vacation island where people went to fish. So after T.G. if the blight recedes the land of Melkier shouid be habitable.

 

Yeah ... that was not only before the Blight, but also before a little thing known as the Breaking of the World.  You remember, oceans became land, mountain ranges moved, nothing stayed where it was, remember?

 

Anyway ... no one is going to be convinced here.  So, we'll just agree to disagree and see what happens.

[Davian93]

I don't see there being much of a confrontation between Elayne and Perrin over two rivers,

 

Well one issue with that map is that it gives Perrin Baerlon and thus control of Andor's treasury (you know all that gold and silver in the mines there that kinda drive Andor's economy.  Also, Perrin would probably end up as King in Saldaea (it does make sense after all.) 

 

On Lan, a note to remember is that Min's visions are always of the future never the past and Min see's quite a bit around Lan (like a babe with a sword, and a couple of other things that seem to indicate that Nynaeve at a minimum will have a kid with him which means he should last a little while.  He may not carve Malkier out of the Blight again but it is possible he will survive TG.  I hope he does since he's had a pretty crappy life so far.

[Nelal Hurcran]

Why wouldn't Malkier come back?

 

Something that you all seem to be ignoring:

 

Lan =\= Aragorn

 

Maliker =\= Gondor

 

Sure, RJ used alot of Tolkins ideas (what fantasy writer hasn't?), including an "exiled" king. But that plot resolution will not be the same betwen the books.

 

Malkier. Is. Not. Coming. Back.

 

The Fourth Age is a new Age, not the old one regurgitated.  Lan is not interested in resurrecting Malkier, only avenging it.

Amen