What is the nature of the pact?

[cloglord]

When Verin and the boys enter the stedding outside of Carhien in TGH, they run into some Aiel.  A fight between Shinierians and Aiel is narrowly avoided, in part, because an ogier shows up yelling at the Aiel to remember the pact.  A reference to how long the pact had been in effect led me to do some digging, and  apparently this pact was made at the end of the breaking, when ogier were first dicovering steddings in the spine of the world.  So what is the nature of this pact?  Why would ogier make a pact with Aiel, and what is the signifigance of the fact that apparently the Aiel have agreed to do no violence in a stedding? 

 

Is there another reference to this pact that I've missed somewhere?

[Doyn]

It is probably something similar to what they have with gleeman and merchants, just in reverse. Made before Cairhien turn relations on their head, I was probably mutual non agression and trade. But overall I don't remember reading more detail of it.

[Lonely Wind]

I think it was made when the Aiel still remembered who they used to be in AoL. I think it also involves not hurting trees. It may also be something to cling to, at least one place where they won't do violence like years before. 

[cloglord]

I suppose that there is the possibility of some sort of agreement in relation to wood.  The Aiel in question were there for sung wood.  Further, the complete absence of trees in the waste would seem to make them unlikely to have ever angered the Ogier by being tree abusers.

[lou]

in rand's memories in rhudean, there was a ritual being held that had the aeil and ogier singing together, maybe it stems from that connection, the ogier's long memory of the aiel, and the aiel being the keepers of the saplings of avensdora (sp)

[cloglord]

there was a ritual being held that had the aeil and ogier singing together, maybe it stems from that connection,

 

That was kind of what I was driving at.  I have a personal theory that the Aiel will be "slain by the sword of peace, and destroyed by the leaf," while attempting to sing the bore shut.  A pre-existing pact between the Ogier and the Aiel would make it more likely that the Ogier would/could participate in such an endeavor, I think.

[lou]

that was the only reference that i can remember connecting the ogier to the aiel. i would hope that the song that the tinkers have been seaching for is shared by the ogier and aiel towards healing the world, whether it be by helping seal the bore or in general uniting the people towards peace (that seems unlikely)

[Luckers]

My thought is that its a basic, general, non-agression pact when the Aiel are in the stedding. The Aiel are honourable, they hardly need to be bribed with Sung wood to agree to a pact involving stedding and Ogier.

[VampireGoat]

If WoT ends with the bore being 'sung' shut im gonna be pissed, unless we have simon cowell and co juding and berating the aiel singing ability after.

 

In my opinion I really can't forsee the aiel battle stratergy falling down to them joining hands with the ogier and singing their way to glory. The fact that such events used to take place has been enough to drive a massive portion of the aiel into despair and another portion into open rebellion against their own 

prophecies.

 

While such an endevour may be possible, it would mean destroying all custom and belief of themselves which even the most minor group of people in WoT are reluctant to do. The Aiel are to proud to let go. Their warrior spirit is their reason to be and as the wise ones have said, they intend to cling tight to every scrap they can.

 

If the Aiel really do face any destruction its goin to be by a constant stream of battles, not through reaccepting the way of the leaf.

 

As for them and the ogier, pure respect I believe.

[cloglord]

My thought is that its a basic, general, non-agression pact when the Aiel are in the stedding. The Aiel are honourable, they hardly need to be bribed with Sung wood to agree to a pact involving stedding and Ogier

 

But why would the Ogier need to make this pact with the Aiel specifically.  It would be like the tinkers going to make a non-aggression pact with trees.  Why would the Ogier fear that the Aiel would harm them?  It would be pretty simple for a couple hundred 10 foot tall ogier to defend themselves against pretty much any comer.  What would the Aiel gain from attacking anyone within a stedding?  If neither side would attack the other in the first place, why a non agression pact?  I do like the idea that the Ogier as guardians of trees, recognizing a society that could potentially become wood hungry, heading the situation off, by offering to trade them sung wood in exchange for something.  Maybe in exchange for being environmentally friendly? 

 

In either case, there has been a millenias long  agreement between these two groups, that makes them allies in my book.

 

In my opinion I really can't forsee the aiel battle stratergy falling down to them joining hands with the ogier and singing their way to glory. The fact that such events used to take place has been enough to drive a massive portion of the aiel into despair and another portion into open rebellion against their own

prophecies.

 

TGH chapter 28

When the Trollocs come out of the Blight again, we will leave the Three-fold Land and take back our places of old.

 

The trollocs haven't come out of the blight yet, and their places of old were as singing followers of the way of the leaf.  Of course if they were to do this during TG it would probably mean that large numbers of the Aiel would die.

 

TSR Chapter 34

 

He shall spill out the blood of those who call themselves Aiel as water on sand, and he shall break them as dried twigs, yet the remnant of a remnant shall he save, and they shall live.

 

Of course this could just be a reference to mass slaughter in battle, that is unless you remember this old tidbit.

 

TDR chapter 6

 

* He "shall slay his people with the sword of peace, and destroy them with the leaf."

 

Sounds to me like the aiel are going to return to the way of the leaf, and be subsequently destroyed to me.

 

 

[The Dragon Reborn]

 

* He "shall slay his people with the sword of peace, and destroy them with the leaf."

 

Sounds to me like the aiel are going to return to the way of the leaf, and be subsequently destroyed to me.

 

I alway took that to mean that by revealing the old beliefs of the Aiel, he divided them, destroyed many, made them fight each other and caused the 'bleakness'...I'd really hate to see all revert to 'The Way of the Leaf', the Aiel kick ass. :P

[Lord_Naryb]

I don't view the pact as non-agression between the Ogier and the Aiel, rather between the Ogier and anyone in a stedding. The stedding is a place of peace and the pact ensures that rivals together ina stedding would not try to killeach other.

[Kura]

I alway took that to mean that by revealing the old beliefs of the Aiel, he divided them, destroyed many, made them fight each other and caused the 'bleakness'...I'd really hate to see all revert to 'The Way of the Leaf', the Aiel kick ass. :P

 

Well, I doubt all of the Aiel will return to the way of the leaf. The piece that fights against the prophecies, for example. That, and the Shaido who if I remember right vowed not to leave the three-fold land again. They are a remnent of a remnent((SP?)). They were a piece of the whole Aiel culture that broke off, and were further broken down by those who became wetlanderish, and those who remained true to their aiel customs, but the whole remnent thing could also refer to the Aiel who may go back to the leaf, or if Cloglord is right, will sing. All in all though, I think we can agree that not all of the Aiel will go in any specific direction, already they are far to divided.

[RobertAlexWillis]

That, and the Shaido who if I remember right vowed not to leave the three-fold land again. They are a remnent of a remnent((SP?)).

 

It would be sort of ironic if the way that Rand preserves "a remnant of a remnant" is by pissing the Shaido off so much that they stay out of the fight while the rest all get killed ...

[The Lost One]

I don't view the pact as non-agression between the Ogier and the Aiel, rather between the Ogier and anyone in a stedding. The stedding is a place of peace and the pact ensures that rivals together ina stedding would not try to killeach other.

 

That is exactly what I thought.  That the pact was basically for no violence in the stedding.