Book of Translation

[Seriodor]

I always wondered, if its called the Third Age by some, who's arguing?

[Gentled Ben]

Others. <_<

Sorry; my post count is SO close to 1000, and the spam forum doesn't count anymore for that last-minute push. Far be it from me to have 1000 quality posts.  :P

[Seriodor]

its kool  ;D

[drovja]

I like the idea that the end of an age doesn't have to be destructive.  In our own history, transitions from the Stone Age to the Bronze age or whatever (I don't actually care enough to look up a good reference) just came about with the adoption of a new tool or a type of tool.  It sounds very possible to me that the seperation between the First and Second Age is the discovery of the One Power.

[Seriodor]

Wait...does it mention in the prophecy of the dragon whether or not rand has to break the world?

[RobertAlexWillis]

While it is true that not all transitions between Ages must be accompanied by great destruction, it is fairly certain this one will be.  There is no quote from the Karaethon Cycle (or the Jindair prophecy, or the prophecy of Rhuidean) that specifically says the Dragon will Break the World again, just as was done in the historical Breaking.  That is a common belief, but it is not explicitly stated.

 

However, many of the quotes come very close, so its far from impossible.  A few examples:

 

And it shall come to pass that what men made shall be shattered, and the Shadow shall lie across the Pattern of the Age, and the Dark One shall once more lay his hand upon the world of man. Women shall weep and men quail as the nations of the earth are rent like rotting cloth. Neither shall anything stand nor abide...

 

 

(TGH Prologue)  This quote is why I don't believe that any of the nations of Randland (or anywhere else for that matter) will continue in their pre-Rand form after Tarmon Gai'don.

 

For he shall come like the breaking dawn, and shatter the world again with his coming, and make it anew.

 

(TGH ch 5)  This is as close to a prophecy of a second physical Breaking as I could find, and "shatter the world" could be metaphorical rather than physical.  Still, it could mean physically too.  Both Rand and the Forsaken believe that the Choedan Kal is strong enough for him to do it by himself.

 

As the plow breaks the earth shall he break the lives of men, and all that was shall be consumed in the fire of his eyes.

 

(ACoS ch 18) Again, while not specifically referencing a physical Breaking, it does speak to the degree of change coming.  ("all that was shall be consumed ...")

 

At any rate, while none of these specifically guarantees a physical Breaking on the level which followed the War of the Power, they certainly allow for one, and the degree of change anticipated by the prophecies would fit such an occurrence.

 

It may be that all our speculation about border changes and which nations survive, etc, will all be rendered pointless by a complete change in the landscape.  I think I would actually find that a more entertaining read, although certainly it will be more horrible for the characters.  I guess I'm just twisted like that.

[Seriodor]

It sounds to me liek those are all the things that Rand has been doing to society, like men leaving there family's Brigands starting in his name. War scarrin every land, and for sure the giant horde of Trollocs that will come in TG. Those are all things that are destructive on the level that those particular arts of the prophecy state.

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

Uniting half of the nations of the world under the same banner would mean destruction of social order and hierarchy the way it stands.

 

I really don't think geography will change, except for the Blight disappearing if Rand seals the bore correctly.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Well, obviously we read them differently ... to me, life in Randland isn't that much different than it ever has been, not in the most basic ways ... Andor is almost unscathed, really, as are a number of other nations.

 

I would be a little dissapointed if Tarmon Gai'don turns out to be almost a footnote compared to the Breaking, the Trolloc Wars, and the War of the Hundred Years.  No nation survived any of those events.  If places like Andor make it through ... well, I would just be dissapointed, thats all.

[Seriodor]

Ya, that would be very anticlimactic. But how would another breaking go, is the DO gonna taint Saidin again, there would have to be something.

[TheRedSon]

Maybe he'll taint Saidar this time. 

 

I wouldn't cry.

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

Well, obviously we read them differently ... to me, life in Randland isn't that much different than it ever has been, not in the most basic ways ... Andor is almost unscathed, really, as are a number of other nations.

 

I would be a little dissapointed if Tarmon Gai'don turns out to be almost a footnote compared to the Breaking, the Trolloc Wars, and the War of the Hundred Years.  No nation survived any of those events.  If places like Andor make it through ... well, I would just be dissapointed, thats all.

 

No, I do agree with your assessment that probably very few nations will survive the Last Battle, and they will all be changed.

[Seriodor]

RJ said that the DO is not going to taint saidar.

[TheRedSon]

It was a joke. 

 

Well, a joke and a little pent up anger with several of the female characters in the series.

[RobertAlexWillis]

But how would another breaking go, is the DO gonna taint Saidin again, there would have to be something.

 

Rand is going to have to break the existing Seals at some point.  If the Dark One can do what we've already seen (send visible, palpable ripples through reality, let the dead walk and even interact with the living, change worldwide weather patterns, etc.) through the weakened seals, imagine what he can do with even a few bare moments of an unblocked Bore.  I have a feeling the Bore is much larger underneath the Seals than it ever was in the War of the Power.  Just his metaphysical fingertip, still under the Seals, has been enough to be felt the world over.  One swipe of his metaphysical fist, with no Seals at all, could be devastating indeed.

[inkubate]

which begs the question, the DO has been basically free before, why. if he has all this massive power, didn't destroy everything then?

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

He wasn't completely free, he was just more free than he is now.

 

It's kind of like he had his hand out in the world, and now there are only figerholes in between the seals.

[Seriodor]

Or maybe Elayne, Avienhda, and Min will all die at once, and Rand will go mad with grief, and cause the breaking himself with the Choden Kal.

[RobertAlexWillis]

which begs the question, the DO has been basically free before, why. if he has all this massive power, didn't destroy everything then?

 

The Bore was very "small" when it was first opened.  It only had a hundred years to grow before the War of the Power, and 10 years during the War.  Then the Seals were put in place.

 

I don't imagine Shai'tan has been twiddling his thumbs under the Seals this whole time.  The Bore is probably much larger, under the Seals, than it had ever been in the War of the Power.

 

So, when the Seals break now, he should be much more free than he ever was back then.  Thus capable of much more damage.

[Luckers]

Not that i disagree but thats pretty much all speculative. The dark One might just as easily have had his entire attention focussed on wearing away the seals.

 

But yeah, for thematic reasons and the need for escalation of the danger of the Shadow, i agree with Robert.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Yes, let it be clearly stated that I am engaging in what I consider to be fairly solid, but certainly unproven, speculation.

[Luckers]

Well, if we're being snippy, its not really solid is it? Sort of more unsubstantiated guesswork?

 

;D

 

Robert's gonna hurt me badly, i think. If he kills me, I leave everything to Granpa G.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Hmm ... I wonder what happens if half of someone is tranported by the Book of Translation ...

[Luckers]

Don't worry about it. The Department for Magical Accidents will be along shortly to set things to rights.

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

How many times do I have to tell you? You cannot use "book of translation" on Hogwarts grounds.

 

We don't want anyone under a Fifth Year trying to apparate. They just might end up losing an eyebrow in the process.