AS are a bunch of sickening cowards

[Fel]

In my umpteenth reread through the series, I am up to Crossroads of Twilight and the part where the Aes Sedai feel the cleansing of the taint being performed and start discussing what to do.  Did their reaction strike anyone else as amazingly cowardly?  There was so much discussion about how to protect themselves by making larger circles, but no discussion at all about what "the forsaken" were doing or how they could come up with a counter-"weapon"

 

These people pride themselves on being the leaders in the fight against the shadow for 3000 years, but all they ever seem to care about is their own hide.  Where is their feeling of urgency for fighting the war against the shadow or coming up with a way to stop them from decimating more cities? 

 

I know, it’s hard for anyone’s opinion of the Aes Sedai to go lower than it is, but everytime I think on their actions, I can’t help feeling disgusted by them all.

 

Finally, even if they could take the circles larger...the description of feeling the amount of power from the Choeden Kal was that it was more than all the sisters in the tower combined.  So, not only are they cowardly, they are not even coming up with a good plan.  That is, the largest circle still will not be enough to counter the "forsaken weapon"

 

 

[Destrus]

Bah...Aes Sedai....

 

They're an old order that is so bogged down with internal politics and worrying about their Ajahs.  I think RJ is doing a good job with the portrayal of a group of people who are hundreds of years old...and whom each have their own agendas.

 

The thing with the AS is that there are wheels within wheels to the machinations of the White Tower.  Many of the AS have their own personal plans for how they will leverage events against members of their own Ajah (for standing inside their own group), against members of the other Ajahs (for increased prestige of their group), against the Black Tower, against the Dragon Reborn, against royalty and nations, etc, etc, etc.

 

The AS think of things on a long term scale, and have for years.  Don't forget that many of them are hundreds of years old.  They are largely incapable of thinking of things in terms of the present and of what is happening in the here and now.  Only the "young" Aes Sedai seem to be capable of that kind of those...and by young I mean Moiraine (80 years old?), Suiane (80 to 90 years old?), etc.

 

Don't forget that there are only approximately 30 to 36 months that will pass between the opening of The Eye Of The World and the end of A Memory Of Light...when you are that old of a creature, you lose the ability to function effectively in the fast paced times in which they are living.

[Charlz Guybon]

Only the "young" Aes Sedai seem to be capable of that kind of those...and by young I mean Moiraine (80 years old?), Suiane (80 to 90 years old?), etc.

 

Don't forget that there are only approximately 30 to 36 months that will pass between the opening of The Eye Of The World and the end of A Memory Of Light...when you are that old of a creature, you lose the ability to function effectively in the fast paced times in which they are living.

Moraine is 44 and Suian 42

 

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org:8008/characters/m/moiraine.html

 

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org:8008/characters/s/siuan.html

[Destrus]

Only the "young" Aes Sedai seem to be capable of that kind of those...and by young I mean Moiraine (80 years old?), Suiane (80 to 90 years old?), etc.

 

Don't forget that there are only approximately 30 to 36 months that will pass between the opening of The Eye Of The World and the end of A Memory Of Light...when you are that old of a creature, you lose the ability to function effectively in the fast paced times in which they are living.

Moraine is 44 and Suian 42

 

 

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org:8008/characters/m/moiraine.html

 

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org:8008/characters/s/siuan.html

 

My bad...I always thought (obviously incorrectly) that she had been Aes Sedai for 30 years or so when the Aiel came over the Dragonwall.

[Charlz Guybon]

Only the "young" Aes Sedai seem to be capable of that kind of those...and by young I mean Moiraine (80 years old?), Suiane (80 to 90 years old?), etc.

 

Don't forget that there are only approximately 30 to 36 months that will pass between the opening of The Eye Of The World and the end of A Memory Of Light...when you are that old of a creature, you lose the ability to function effectively in the fast paced times in which they are living.

Moraine is 44 and Suian 42

 

 

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org:8008/characters/m/moiraine.html

 

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org:8008/characters/s/siuan.html

 

My bad...I always thought (obviously incorrectly) that she had been Aes Sedai for 30 years or so when the Aiel came over the Dragonwall.

 

You should read the prequel New Spring, it's very good and goes  over that time period and how Moraine and Siuan found out the Dragon had been born.

[Destrus]

I only read New Spring once and it was right when it came out.  I've re-read the entire series once since then and have started to re-read it again....

 

I probably should've re-read New Spring before I re-read EOTW...

[Luckers]

Probably... it's a good read.

 

The Aes Sedai have existed in a world without peer for three thousand years, and without any power capable of threatening them in two thousand years. Unlike the Wise Ones, who have known harsh life, they have only just recently come face to face with the reality that they don't stand above the world, untouchable. Their reactions are fairly reasonable for their experience, however annoying. And one of the things i love about RJ's portrayal of them is dealing with those that face these challanges and roll with it, and those that don't.

[dlan4327]

Good lord I've been waiting for this thread. I'm a pretty irregular poster but when I see a thread bashing Aes Sedai I've got to chime in. I can count the  Aes Sedai I admire on one hand and still have fingers left over. I admire Moraine, more towards the later books though, since she had a tendency towards bossiness earlier on and I admire Verin... yeah...that's it. Seriously the only thing that really gets my hackles up is that they think they're better than everyone and they never take part in any work when there's other people to do the work for them.

[chelseafan]

I dunno I respect Cadsuane,moraine,Verin and a few more however I do see the your point as I'm not a fan of Aes Sedai in general ;)

[Destrus]

I'm not a fan of the Aes Sedai because they are largely pompous and arrogant....but I understand their POV and why RJ has them acting that way (as I outlined in my earlier post).

 

A.S. that I like:

Moiraine

Cadsuane

Verin

Suiane

 

That's it.  I don't even like Elayne, Egwene or Nynaeve very much after they became AS.

[Gentled Ben]

I like the Aes Sedai alot. Along with the Aiel, I think they're the most colorful characters in the books, and I take great pleasure in role playing an Aes Sedai on another site. They have this idea that they know most, if not all, of what can be/is known, and based upon that and their ability to channel, along with their own hyped-up mystique (which they seem to buy into themselves even more than the rest of the world does), they're convinced that their views, their paradigms, are correct. I think what upsets people so much is that the Aes Sedai mirror ourselves.

 

Most people aren't as open-minded as they like to believe, and most lessons about being wrong and arrogant suck or at least, most of my lessons about it have. :D People in general don't like to be reminded of traits they have that are disagreable, and I think the Aes Sedai touch a raw nerve from time to time. Overall, those women do the best they can within the context of who they are, and they actually do quite a lot, it's just that most of it is misguided in some way, the same as many of us lead our own lives. I mean when it's all said and done, and I'm on my deathbed, will I regret time spent arguing on Dragonmount at the expense of further developing my 3D relationships with family and friends?

 

I like my xbox, for example, but might I have been better served spending some of that game time working overtime so that I could afford to travel somewhere cool? That doesn't even take into account how I might better the welfare of my fellow man by doing vounteer work for even half of the time I spend reading fantasy, and when viewed from that angle, I can see that I have an over-inflated sense of self-importance bolstered by self-delusions of knowing what's best at any given moment, just the same as the Aes Sedai. They spend time scheming and bickering among themselves that might be better spent killing trollocs in the Blight or travelling about the countryside Healing injuries and disease.

 

I also twist the truth around until my conscience is assuaged in certain stituations precisely the way they work their way around the first oath; it's just that I think I might have spent enough time examining some uncomfortable truths about myself that I can bear a quick glance in a make-believe mirror, so I don't loathe them. I actually get a kick out of their shortcomings--I find it more endearing than repulsive.  :-\

 

Edited for greater clarity.

[Siemba]

The Aes Sedai are not cowards (well, not all of them). They dont act automatically on big issues because firstly they dont have to (they arent going to die in the next 100 years unless someone kills them) and secondly because they have to see the bigger picture. If you are going to be stuck living in a world for triple the time everyone else is going to be living, you are not going to jump for short-term solutions just to please everyone else, since theyll die and youll end up with a bigger mess than before. The Aes Sedai are essentially a collection of women from around Randland, regardless of wether they can channel or how they live their lives. So a city getting demolished (unless its their own city or birth city) isnt going to matter as much to them as it is to the people living there. Theres a difference between caution and cowardice.

 

Of course, Im an Aes Sedai fan so Im unbelievably biased  ;D

[drunkengrizzly]

while Ben makes a good point, i still find it hard to like the Aes Sedai collectively.  for all their talk, they do reek of inaction.  but i think it was RJ that turned me off to them. their bickering takes up way too many pages. period.  call it giving the world depth, or whatever you like, but the most boring parts of the entire series involve Pevara and company, and all Egwene's POV's from entering Salidar til coming up with the whole cuendillar scheme.  its gotten so bad i skip entire chapters in my rereads, and i just can't find it in my heart to like people i can't stomach reading about.

[Luckers]

Thats funny, because i concider Pevara one of the best characters in the books. I mostly agree the majority of the Aes Sedai are fairly stupid, but those Aes Sedai that are free of their indoctrination tend to be some of the best characters in the books. Tarna, Cadsuane, Pevara, Seaine... those that are studying with the Aiel... and Romanda, who is not there yet, but is moving steadily in that direction.

[Charlz Guybon]

Thats funny, because i concider Pevara one of the best characters in the books. I mostly agree the majority of the Aes Sedai are fairly stupid, but those Aes Sedai that are free of their indoctrination tend to be some of the best characters in the books. Tarna, Cadsuane, Pevara, Seaine... those that are studying with the Aiel... and Romanda, who is not there yet, but is moving steadily in that direction.

I agree with you on this. Pevara has been quite clever and has thought outside the box since she was raised. However, the Aes Sedai seem to like the old Japanese saying "The Nail that Sticks Up will be hammered down". In fact, find it amazing that Pevara's managed to rise to the status of Sitter given her unorthodox ideas, even given her age and strength in the power.