Did RJ sneak in a sleeper?

[GrandpaG]

The grandma who took over the novices with the rebel AS.  Will she move to the forefront later?  Wasn't she part of Nynaeve's accepted test?  We haven't heard a lot about her directly but she's in position to be a "surprise star" of AMoL...maybe?

[Charlz Guybon]

The grandma who took over the novices with the rebel AS.  Will she move to the forefront later?  Wasn't she part of Nynaeve's accepted test?  We haven't heard a lot about her directly but she's in position to be a "surprise star" of AMoL...maybe?

 

She'll probably kick some Seanchan butt in AMOL but I think it unlikely that she'll be more in the limelight than that. Maybe she and Egwene will tag team Mesaana.

[dmanmiller34]

It wouldn't surprise me if he did. But I don't thinkthat she will play a very imporatnat role becasue of the very fact that we know so little about her other than that she was in Nynaeve's accepted test. But I don't think that means very much considering that other people have been in others tests that were real people even though they had never met. Like the Forsaken that she fought on the first time in. She had never met him before but he was still a real person.

 

I like to compare those type of Ter'Angreal to the portal stones. The portal stones can take you to Other worlds where events happened differently(IE the Trollocs beating Artur Hawkwing) but the Terangeral let the person momentarily enter those other worlds inside the other you that already existed there. And the second that you back through the gate the you from the real world and the you that belongs to the alternate world spilt and you in that world keeps going on. Or if you decide to stay then you just become that person in that world. I am makeing any sense? ??? I hope so. I could be way off. but there it is.

[Guest cwestervelt]

That is almost how I see the tests.

 

The person being tested can't really be going to the other world though, as certain things fit the expected beliefs of the one being tested.  Like Egwene having an Aes Sedai face and not having taken the Oaths.  When Egwene was tested, she didn't know she wouldn't get the ageless face unless she took the Oaths.  Had she truly gone to the other world, she would have had a normal face.

 

That the Testing draws subject matter from the parallel worlds is, at least to me, an definite fact.  There are just too many things that are almost correct.  The presense of people in both Nynaeve and Egwene's testings that they cannot know.  Coming back with knowledge that they never had before, like the ability to force a Channeler to the Shadow.  Rand also has a vision that is very close to one of Egwene's tests when he is trying to use the Portal Stone to go to Toman Head.

[Charlz Guybon]

It wouldn't surprise me if he did. But I don't thinkthat she will play a very imporatnat role becasue of the very fact that we know so little about her other than that she was in Nynaeve's accepted test. But I don't think that means very much considering that other people have been in others tests that were real people even though they had never met. Like the Forsaken that she fought on the first time in. She had never met him before but he was still a real person.

 

Nynaeve met that Forsaken at the Eye of the World.

[Luckers]

Remember though that Egwene's experience was effected by the dreamring ter'angreal, and was not a normal accepted experience.

 

I don't think of the Accepted test as being a function of the portal stone worlds in any case, i think its fairly clear that its a function of Tel'aran'rhiod. Why? Simply, Alanna states that the only other time they had seen a ter'angreal act that way was when they put two ter'angreal with similar functions in the same room as each other. The ring functions via TAR, and so, do i believe, does the Accepted Rings. This accounts for the fluid intermixture of true states, and personal interjections in the experience.

 

As for Sharina. I think her main purpose is to serve as a lesson to the Aes Sedai. A women who is so strong in herself that simply by being she disabuses them of much of their indoctrinate opinions. I don't really see her playing a part in the Last Battle, but once she becomes Aes Sedai i see her playing a massive role in seeing that Aes Sedai address her own short comings. After all, about the only thing that can stand up to indoctrination is unmitigated disgust and contempt. She'll question the current state, in particular the oaths, the practice of not searching for girls, the practice of using strength to establish hierarchy, the prejudice of wilders, and whatever other foolishness the Aes Sedai believe in... and she'll do it simply by existing.

 

Not doubt she'll also play a part in dealing with the Wise Ones.

[Cadsuane]

Heh, Sharina + Cadsuane + Sorilea = RUN AWAY.  ;D

[Mardragon]

In Nynaeve's test Sharina appeared to be a force for evil in the village didn't she? She had apparently poisoned a previous wisdom if I remember correctly and pretty much become a tyrant. I wonder if this means she is in fact a dark friend of some kind, possibly one of the forsaken in disguise (although for some reason I don't think she's that as I think she's even more powerful than them in the one power. I don't know that for certain but that's the impression I get).

 

Of course the test was designed to play on Nynaeve's fears so it doesn't necessarily mean anything concerning the real Sharina's character, (and if it's truly another world then it's possible that dark Sharina in one world might not be dark in this) but it is a thought.

 

On another note, off-topic, I found myself feeling quite sorry for Nynaeve. She started off being one of the most powerful female channeler and therefore special... when she could channel. However, now she can channel at will 2 or three other characters turn up who could potentially supersede her in the power. Heh heh.  That and she is no longer the best at healing (although she is way up there!)

[Charlz Guybon]

In Nynaeve's test Sharina appeared to be a force for evil in the village didn't she? She had apparently poisoned a previous wisdom if I remember correctly and pretty much become a tyrant. I wonder if this means she is in fact a dark friend of some kind, possibly one of the forsaken in disguise (although for some reason I don't think she's that as I think she's even more powerful than them in the one power. I don't know that for certain but that's the impression I get).

 

Of course the test was designed to play on Nynaeve's fears so it doesn't necessarily mean anything concerning the real Sharina's character, (and if it's truly another world then it's possible that dark Sharina in one world might not be dark in this) but it is a thought.

 

On another note, off-topic, I found myself feeling quite sorry for Nynaeve. She started off being one of the most powerful female channeler and therefore special... when she could channel. However, now she can channel at will 2 or three other characters turn up who could potentially supersede her in the power. Heh heh.  That and she is no longer the best at healing (although she is way up there!)

 

Nope, that was someone else. It was in the first go through the ring in the test that examined her past. Sharina showed up in the third test that focused on her future. She was the Aes Sedai adviser to Malkier.

[Luckers]

Indeed, the woman you are speaking of (the tyranical Wisdom) was called Malena Aylar. Sharina Melloy, in the visions, served as the Aes Sedai advisor to Malkier, as Charlz so correctly pointed out.

[GrandpaG]

It is kind of neat to see her holding her own amongst the "real" Aes Sedai.  I get the impression that she would be just as predominant even if she couldn't channel a lick.

 

I don't recall...is there any mention of her being really old like the Kin?  She never held the oath rod.  Or, did she gain all that strength in the one power without ever touching it?

[Charlz Guybon]

It is kind of neat to see her holding her own amongst the "real" Aes Sedai.  I get the impression that she would be just as predominant even if she couldn't channel a lick.

 

I don't recall...is there any mention of her being really old like the Kin?  She never held the oath rod.  Or, did she gain all that strength in the one power without ever touching it?

She's 67 IIRC, and never channeled at all before. That's why she looks old, she's looking less old though. I think Jordan said she'd revert to looking like she was in her early middle age.

[GrandpaG]

It is kind of neat to see her holding her own amongst the "real" Aes Sedai.  I get the impression that she would be just as predominant even if she couldn't channel a lick.

 

I don't recall...is there any mention of her being really old like the Kin?  She never held the oath rod.  Or, did she gain all that strength in the one power without ever touching it?

She's 67 IIRC, and never channeled at all before. That's why she looks old, she's looking less old though. I think Jordan said she'd revert to looking like she was in her early middle age.

 

So, some "wilders" never become wilders at all...they somehow skip touching the source even though they're potential is huge.  I learned something new today.  Thanks.

[Majsju]

Wilders are typically those with the spark. They don't have a choice, eventually they will start channeling, and most of them will die unless they get aid.

 

Then there are those who can learn how to channel, like Tuon. These must be taught, so it is almost impossible for them to become wilders, as there are very few around who would be willing to teach them.

[Luckers]

Under very rare circumstances Learners can spark themselves, but mostly it is as Maj said. Most Learners go their entire lives without even suspecting that they can touch the source... at least in Randland they do, thanks to the idiots we call Aes Sedai.

 

I like Sharina as well. I think she's a positive influence, and that in the long run she may well bring the Aes Sedai back from the brink of social suicide, where they currently stand. At the very lest she'll play a large part in that... she has that sort of feel. The maternal, yet non-nonsense type... its exactly what the Aes Sedai need.

[Guest cwestervelt]

Where did you get that a person without the Spark can sometimes teach themselves?  Or are you basing that on the affinity some Sul'dam develop?

[Luckers]

I answered that in the Sparkers and Learners thread, with the quote from RJ. It's extremely hard, but not impossible.

[Guest cwestervelt]

I saw that, and gave my interpretation of RJ's words.

[GrandpaG]

Under very rare circumstances Learners can spark themselves, but mostly it is as Maj said. Most Learners go their entire lives without even suspecting that they can touch the source... at least in Randland they do, thanks to the idiots we call Aes Sedai.

 

I like Sharina as well. I think she's a positive influence, and that in the long run she may well bring the Aes Sedai back from the brink of social suicide, where they currently stand. At the very lest she'll play a large part in that... she has that sort of feel. The maternal, yet non-nonsense type... its exactly what the Aes Sedai need.

 

Can a non-Aes Sedai become Mistress of Novices?

 

[Cadsuane]

Probably not. I can't imagine them letting a novice punish other novices. That sets a bad precedent.

[Luckers]

No. Moreover, the Mistress of Novices, like the Keeper, is chosen upon an Amyrlin's rise to power, and usually from that Amyrlin's Ajah.

[GrandpaG]

No. Moreover, the Mistress of Novices, like the Keeper, is chosen upon an Amyrlin's rise to power, and usually from that Amyrlin's Ajah.

 

Egwene is an "appointed" Aes Sedai.  If she is recognized as the "one and only" Amyrlin Seat I can almost see Sharina Sedai of the Green Ajah as Mistress of Novices due to her superior abilities and past performance working with the girls.  I know.  I'm a crazy old goat.  Not the first time.  Probably not the last.  ::)

[Luckers]

The loophole in the law that allowed for Egwene to be raised likely does not apply to an appointment to Mistress of Novices... but even if it did, why on earth would the Hall employ it? Sharina is a novice, and not at all essentially to the struggle against Elaida. They'll let her serve out her novitiate and do the test the normal way.