Nynaeve in Ghealdan

[The Dragon of Ohio]

I’m a new reader of the series, I’m almost finished with Book 5, Fires From Heaven.

 

My question is this

 

Am I honestly supposed to be on the Aes Sedai’s side? Or even like them? Specifically what triggered this is Nynaeve in Ghealdan. She, and many other Aes Sedai characters constantly berate and criticize men, call them stupid and untrustworthy, and then finds out she basically started a riot and war in Ghealdan. Then later in the chapter she basically just solely  blames Galad for it, when she basically lit the match because she was so ignorant and arrogant at what she was doing.

 

And the Aes Sedai are no different. The tower falling was 100% avoidable if (Soun?) wasn’t so arrogant. And in book 3 when Rand left camp to go Tear, I’d put squarely as Moraine’s fault. If she actually bothered to try to educate Rand instead of controlling him I doubt he’d have gone off on his own.

[Elgee]

Luckily there are many sides in the WoT, and you go with the one that resonates with you.

I've always been  on the Aes Sedai side, myself, but that's not to say that I think they're perfect (and I don't think Nynaeve should have been Raised at all :P). In fact, most of them I'd love to line up and smack around a bit ... LoL

If you look carefully, you'll realise that not a single person in the WoT is perfect. They're all just human (or wolf, or horse).

[The Dragon of Ohio]

58 minutes ago, Elgee said:

Luckily there are many sides in the WoT, and you go with the one that resonates with you.

I've always been  on the Aes Sedai side, myself, but that's not to say that I think they're perfect (and I don't think Nynaeve should have been Raised at all :P). In fact, most of them I'd love to line up and smack around a bit ... LoL

If you look carefully, you'll realise that not a single person in the WoT is perfect. They're all just human (or wolf, or horse).

I’m not trying to say they are perfect. Just infuriating. Like Nynaeve and Egwene I started off loving Moraine I understood and tolerated in book 1. But as it’s gone on I find them very annoying. I will say, I finished the Fires of Heaven, and I actually love Moraine again.

[Elgee]

LoL yeah I feel what you're saying. They sure do put us on a roller coaster ride!

 

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

On 11/26/2023 at 10:57 AM, The Dragon of Ohio said:

Am I honestly supposed to be on the Aes Sedai’s side? Or even like them?

Nah. I don’t think so. I always got the sense that I was supposed to see them and most of the characters as I would any other person, myself included. Simply as human. Whether or not they see themselves that way is irrelevant to me, and a reason why I resonate with the series. No one, as I see it, not even the dragon reborn/savior, is above having human flaws. Which explains why they are so infuriating at times 😂 and also so relatable. That’s just my 2 cents. 

[Bugglesley]

I'd cosign everyone pointing out that RJ does a very good job of capturing that decisions are made by people, who don't always have the same decisionmaking calculus that a dispassionate observer might have.

 

The thing I would add that makes a lot of decisions infuriating is how RJ constantly plays around with dramatic irony and makes it really clear just how little of what's going on any single character actually knows. Even once things like Traveling and T'A'R are discovered so long-distance communication isn't just pigeons and tavern rumors (at least for some characters), there's still a lot.

 

Moiraine is the GOAT, literal savior of the world second only to Bela and I'm glad OP is coming around. But even she fumbles the bag, more often than you notice at first, and honestly the more you read the more those early fumbles become contextualized. Even by FoH, really think about it--the wise, Gandalf-style wizard that brings our kids into this world of magic has very little idea what's going on and is scared out of her mind for the entire first book. She has to put on a brave front for these literal children she's dragging all the way across the face of the planet to face an ancient evil that bodied wizards way more powerful and knowledgeable than her, and she's grasping at poorly-translated straws from a prophecy with 10 translations and 1,000 interpretations, but she's losing her damn mind for all of EotW. She doesn't know how Rand will learn to channel, she doesn't know much more about the Forsaken than their names, she doesn't know Rand is going to be permanently locked into Lews Therin's Rage Reaction channel. She does her best anyway!

 

Take her buddy Siuan; she's arrogant for sure but she kind of has to be; if she shows weakness she's dead or worse. She's a relatively young Amyrlin whose entire time with the stole has been devoted to a plot that most Sitters would see as blasphemy at best and treason at worst; I'm pretty sure that at several points before the end of FoH she's explicitly said "if anyone finds out what Moiraine and I have been up to we'll be executed or stilled." And even then, she further knows that if the Black Ajah gets wind of what she's up there are fates worse than stilling. She has to throw people off the scent by putting up a front of everything else she's doing, and you can see how she'd be kind of distracted. She can't even get a lot of information about what she needs to know from the organization she ostensibly runs, because in the White Tower the most innocent question reveals that you wanted to know the answer to whoever you asked. Swimming with silverpike indeed! It's hard to say she made every move perfectly, but I'd say for the circumstances she did pretty well at accomplishing her aims. I would also say she becomes more sympathetic as the narrative goes on and you have more of a chance to get to see her thought process and reflect.

 

Nynaeve, on the other hand, really is just kind of an asshole. To my mind she's a well-intentioned, supernaturally gifted misandrist bully who always thinks she's justified and right and whose unbelievably strong magical powers and talent mean that she often comes out on top anyway and has her terrible instincts confirmed. When she does mess up real bad, she either ignores it and blames everyone else (probably men, probably mostly Mat), or completely folds in on herself with self-recrimination... there's no in between. Keep reading, though, she does have growth throughout the series, and these complexities are what make reading the series entertaining.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Bugglesley

[Aan-Alone]

On 11/26/2023 at 1:57 PM, The Dragon of Ohio said:

Am I honestly supposed to be on the Aes Sedai’s side? Or even like them?

Thank you for the I insanely outrageous burst of laughter completely out of nowhere. I needed this today.

 

Those AS are a troublesome bunch in the beginning, and the middle, and the end even. AS are extremely slow to change, and to learn. And why should they? They outlive everyone else, they 'know' more than everyone else. Everyone defers to them, even the ruling monarchs..even if the monarchs defer without realizing it.

 

I don't blame the AS for the way they are, or how they act. Mostly I see them as a product of their environment, per se. They evolved to be the way they are because of the events like the Breaking, Hawkwing's rule, Ishmael's corruption of how AS are perceived, human nature, etc. And humans are generally lazy...it takes way more energy to challenge the status quo than to just go with the flow.

 

This is the general impression I got...at first. As the series progresses, you get to see within the WT, see through various AS PoVs, and come to realize life in the WT is hella complicated. You also get to see examples of AS who are excellent people in their own right trying to follow some semblance of common sense action instead of the mob rule. So my perceptions changed.

 

Thing is, I can't really say how far they changed when we finally got to the end of the story. As far as a general consensus of my feelings towards AS...lets just say the jury's still out.

 

Nynaeve however. I didn't like her at first. Fiercely. For reasons you're well aware of. But the more Nynaeve was on-screen, the more o found her antics...shall we say amusing? She's like moss tho...she grows on you. Especially after she comes to the defense of a certain fan-favorite character. Nynaeve is wicked awesome and fun. But she's also AS

 

Where is the shrug emoji?

 

These are my thoughts and opinions. Any relation to facts is purely coincidental or happenstance.