Book of Translation

[nnokwoodeye]

So what is this Book of Translation thing? It can't be just something like the portal stones. there are ogiers in other mirror worlds as well, so it must lead to some kind of real parallel universe and not just a reflection.

 

Also I find it interesting that Loial's mother seemed to be the first character we meet that actually realizes that ages return. All the others mention that ages return as a sort of mantra but don't so any sign that they realize that if the AOL was before than it would be again and that the last battle happened before and most likely will happen again.

[Luckers]

Herid Fel relized that. As for the book, it implies to me that there is somesort of knowledge on how to leave this world contained in there, not that the book itself is the doorway.

[Guest Majsju]

I think it's a bookthat can be used to navigate a Portal Stone. They can lead to both mirror worlds and parallell worlds. Question is, how would they operate a Portal Stone, since from what we've seen they require channeling?

[Luckers]

Which is why i dont think the device itself is something we've seen before. I think it might even need to be sung, or soemthing to that effect. It would definitly need to be an ogier skill, given the way the ogier are avoiding humans right now.

[nnokwoodeye]

I forgot about fel. I wonder what brought the ogier to the world in the first place and what are they doing in their original world in the ages when they are not in randland.

[Luckers]

My belief is that after the ability to channel first surfaced, there was a war between channelers and non-channelers. With the exception of one race, who supported the channelers. A channeling v. technology war would have been devastating, resulting in a near wasteland. Seeing what they did, the channelers felt bad, or perhaps they lost the war. Either way they swore themselves in service of the people, with the goal of actively seeking a way to heal the world. The race that served them swore to aid the newly made Aes Sedai in this, and became the dai'shain aiel, or those dedicated to piece in battle. I believe it was at this time, perhaps looking for somewhere to flee to themselves, or searching for a way to heal the earth, the Aes Sedai made the portal stones. During that search they found the Ogier, whose ability to sing the growth of living things would obviously make them an answer to this.

 

The Ogier were kind enough to come and try and heal the world, only i suspect even they weren't strong enough to heal it all at once, which is why they didn't just go home again. I think small pockets were healed first, so that people could survive for the near future, and later these places became stedding. Still, it was taking too long with just the Ogier, so the Aes Sedai studied the ability, and during that time tried to give it to humanity, experementing on the Aiel and resulting in the Voice being born in hummanity, and the aiel role in the singing. Again this wasn't enough so they created a living ter'angreal, a living embodiement of the singing, and thus the nym were born. Together with the ogier and the aiel, the nym slowly healed the earth.

 

In light of that, after that much effort and given the way the ogier treat the groves they created, i suspect they would want to stay and live in the paradise they created. More then that, in the aftermath of the harsh life they lived during that time, the age of legends concept of glory through helping society was probably born, and thus came the age of legends.

 

At least, thats how i think it went.

[algspkr]

The portal stones predate the AoL I would guess that they were originally constructed to be used without the one power.

[Luckers]

So does their creation in my theory, and we have no indication or evidence that they can be used by non-channelers. There is no sign of technoligical workings, and RJ is far too much of a scientist for it to be some random mysticalized form of magic. That leaves, to me, the one power.

[The Guardian]

Yeah RJ had put too many little things inside the book I think he'll decide to reveal the ogier story on another side book. I mean the from all the posts and what we've read in the books its almost a whole other series "The history of the Ogier" and wouldnt be justified or made clear in even a chapter in WOT series.

[Slayer]

If they can get out of their world so easily, how come nobody has gone 7 ages into the future, to stop the Breaking of the World or other catastrophies. You could do it with a vacuole if there was some way of making it stable, but there are most likely other ways to do this too.

 

In the whole history of the wheel, it looks like nobody has done this, unless...Verin. :?:

 

What if the Dragon had defeated the DO, but it had been a terrible victory and that the world was almost destroyed? Then Verin, who lives in that age, goes into the future to change things for that age-to-be? And starting, she compells several sisters to follow Rand.

[Guest Majsju]

And she also compelled half the White Tower to think they remember her being a novice, an accepted etc?

[Slayer]

No, she could've infiltrated the White Tower and become a novice so she would gain trust with the Aes Sedai, the most powerful people in the land. She, being from another age, also needed to brush up on the history of the age, making herself seem like she really came from the current age, and also giving her more information about where she is exactly in the Dragon timeline, and how much will happen in the future.

 

Not only that, but what if she had to exit because the vacuole started to shift? She could've ended up 50 years early, so might as well become AS. And she might not have done it intentionally either. She could've been recruited because she could channel, and there wouldn't be much to do about going to the WT after that.

 

OR, she could be a survivor of TG, and she comes back and impersonates herself? Wouldn't that be something?

[Guest Majsju]

So she went to the tower, disguised herself to look like a young teenager, masked a part of her strength in the power, then gradually changed the masking to reveal a little more to make it look like she was gaining strength...

[Luckers]

It does seem a tad unlikely. Just a tad, mind.

[Slayer]

It doesn't even have to happen that way either. She could've met with the 'finns before and asked for the memories of her past lives. But would that be in their power?

 

No one says she was a young girl when she went to the tower, she could've been older, I don't know when she was supposedly born. Really, I find the idea that she saw what could happen in the future when Rand took her through the Portal Stone a likely story.

 

But she wouldn't have to mask her power if she was young to begin with. She might only seem as though she was a "fast learner who was quickly achieving her potential."

[Luckers]

She would have had to, the girls are always tested and watched carefully in the progression of strengths. Someone would have noticed that her starting strength was her full ability. And she also could not have gained it from the finns, at that time the fox doorway was in rhuidean, and out of access to anyone not of the Aiel, and we know that in tGH she had almost no knowledge of the Aiel, or the existence of Rhuidean. Finally she would have had to be pretty damn young, before nynaeve no one had been accepted over 24, most were not accepted unless they were under twenty.

[Timewalker]

>.> There is another doorway that could be used to see the finns.

[Luckers]

Mmm. But the Agreement that allowed people to ask for things is specific to those who come through the doorway in Rhuidean, just as the Agreement that allows people to ask questions is specific to those that come through the doorway in tear. Mat proved as much.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Ummmmm, I don't think so.

 

Mat didn't prove anything about the doorway in Tear other than that each person could only use that particular doorway once. Since the Rhuidean doorway was identical except for the Fox glyphs, it seems logical that each person can only use it once as well, but that hasn't been proven.

 

As to what people are allowed to do once they come through any other doorway, nothing is known, since we haven't seen anyone go through any other doorways.

[Luckers]

The ability to get through the door more then once was not what i claimed, though i think you can logicall suspect that it would have been the case. As to the Agreement, Mat's experiences in the Eelfinns world showed that they are only bound by their loyalty to the agreement. He attempted to force them to answer questions, they didn't. He left a loophole by not discussing price, and they used it to try and kill him. Ergo we can assume that since a person not entering through the tear doorway isn't given answers, that a person not entering through the rhuidean doorway can not be given wishes. And that the finns will try to get around the Agreement when they can, so entering through the Tower of Ghenji would very likely not have led to Verin being able to get three wishes, and Verin also could not have access to the rhuidean ter'angreal. So, no wishes for Verin.

[Inara]

or it could be that they only get 3 wishes and 3 answers total. he already had his answers....

[Luckers]

Then why don't people get three wishes in the Tairen doorway?

[Kadere]

The doorway in Tear led to the Aelfinn, not the Eelfinn. The Aelfinn answer 3 questions according to the agreement, the Eelfinn grant three wishes according to the agreement. When Mat vists the Eelfinn in Rhuidan, he believes they are the same creatures as the ones in Tear, and so demands answers to questions. He doesn't get the answers because that's not what they do. So when he then states the three things he wants, they grant his wishes. Though Birgitte does say the Tower of Ghenji leads to both spiecies.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Also, none of that is set in stone. In Tear, Mat asked his three questions and got his three answers. He didn't like the answers he got and asked more questions. Possibly because he is ta'veren and provides a much richer sensory experience for the Finns, they continued to give answers even as they were pushing him out the door.

 

Kadere is entirely correct. The Aelfinn answer questions. The Eelfinn grant wishes. The doorway in Tear led to the Aelfinn. The Rhuidean doorway led to the Eelfinn.

 

Since the Tower of Ghenji leads to both, and since Moiraine must be aware that Mat had already visited the Eelfinn in Rhuidean, her request that Mat be part of her rescue party must mean that using a different entrance allows one to visit the Finns for a second time. Whether that also means they can get a second set of answers and wishes remains to be seen.

[Luckers]

There is an agreement that resulted in the dorrways, ergo the answering of questions and granting of wishes is not the natural response of the finn. This is further evidenced but Mat's experiences and observations. We must conclude bob, that there is no expectation of answers or wishes through the tower, in absense of an evidence to the alternative. Though i do agree with the rest of your post.