Moridin and how much did early OG fans catch

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

I’m curious in so many ways how the OG fans who had to wait for books experienced the series. I read them all back to back and am now rereading and catching so much that I missed, but I never have had time to theorize and contemplate because I was able to devour without pause. I just reread the part in ACOS about the watcher and the introduction of moridin and it made me wonder if the OG fans knew who he was right away or if the reveal was a surprise? Additionally , was the OC community surprised by anything that played out or did you all hypothesize and theorize most of the major plot points?

[Elgee]

It was so long ago .... LoL ... I think we OG were very lucky in this way. It was so much fun to theorise and then see where we were right or wrong!

I don't think I knew who Moridin was when he first appeared ... that was the scene in Shadar Logoth, right?

Honestly can't remember when I caught on. Bearing in mind that I've read some of the older books more than 30 times - things blur 🙂

[DojoToad]

I started reading in 1992 (I believe) and there is still stuff I haven't caught on to.  🤔

[Sabio]

I don't remember but I think his first appearance was Moghi meeting him after being freed.  I assumed it was Ishy.  Whoever it was had been given a lot of power and authority by the DO.  It just seemed odd to me that would happen with a totally new person.  Ishy was the DO's go to person.

[DojoToad]

5 hours ago, Sabio said:

I don't remember but I think his first appearance was Moghi meeting him after being freed.  I assumed it was Ishy.  Whoever it was had been given a lot of power and authority by the DO.  It just seemed odd to me that would happen with a totally new person.  Ishy was the DO's go to person.

???  Did you read the Companion?

[Elgee]

22 hours ago, DojoToad said:

I started reading in 1992 (I believe) and there is still stuff I haven't caught on to.  🤔

 

That's the wonderful thing about these books, heh? 😃

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

On 3/30/2023 at 6:42 AM, Elgee said:

It was so long ago .... LoL ... I think we OG were very lucky in this way. It was so much fun to theorise and then see where we were right or wrong!

I don't think I knew who Moridin was when he first appeared ... that was the scene in Shadar Logoth, right?

Honestly can't remember when I caught on. Bearing in mind that I've read some of the older books more than 30 times - things blur 🙂

I love hearing the perspectives of the old school fan community! Ok so I could be wrong, but I think the actual first introduction is the “watcher” in the chapter where sammael and graendal pose as different identities to the Savannah shaido crew, and then readers are introduced to a perspective from the “watcher” including references to the true power, saa in the eyes, etc. 

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

20 hours ago, DojoToad said:

???  Did you read the Companion?

I replied to another post already but I think it was actually the scene with sevanna and crew after meeting with sammael and graendal in disguise and then we got the perspective change from “the watcher”? You old school fans have way more insight than I do though, I could be wrong. I love hearing from you all!

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

On 3/30/2023 at 7:24 AM, DojoToad said:

I started reading in 1992 (I believe) and there is still stuff I haven't caught on to.  🤔

I recently heard on a podcast I listen to that there are some things that NEVER get cleared up! WHAT?!? I guess that’s what we love about the series, but damn if I didn’t hope that everything has an answer 

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

On 3/30/2023 at 8:26 PM, Sabio said:

I don't remember but I think his first appearance was Moghi meeting him after being freed.  I assumed it was Ishy.  Whoever it was had been given a lot of power and authority by the DO.  It just seemed odd to me that would happen with a totally new person.  Ishy was the DO's go to person.

Ok sounds like you were initially pretty sure from that scene who he was. I commend you! I didn’t catch it first time around. Do you remember your original thoughts about “the watcher” after the scene with Savannah and shaido with disguised Sammy and grendy? Or if you had any idea who that was?

[dwn]

I started in '92 as well.

 

As I recall, Moridin == Ishy was pretty much assumed at the time (we're talking RAWSF-RJ era), but obviously wasn't 100% confirmed until much later.

 

The identities of the Watcher and the Wanderer were a little less certain (or if they were the same person), but Ishy/Moridin or Shaidar Haran were the top candidates, but one of the other male Forsaken was considered too.

[DojoToad]

2 hours ago, Lightfriendsocialmistress said:

I recently heard on a podcast I listen to that there are some things that NEVER get cleared up! WHAT?!? I guess that’s what we love about the series, but damn if I didn’t hope that everything has an answer 

Life is rarely so nice and neat. I don’t expect my books to tie off everything with a beautiful bow. Loose ends seem more real. And leaves room for debate - what happened next?  

[DojoToad]

3 hours ago, Lightfriendsocialmistress said:

I replied to another post already but I think it was actually the scene with sevanna and crew after meeting with sammael and graendal in disguise and then we got the perspective change from “the watcher”? You old school fans have way more insight than I do though, I could be wrong. I love hearing from you all!

Not everything was obvious to me either. I learned more here on DM and by reading the Companion. 

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

On 4/1/2023 at 1:53 AM, DojoToad said:

Life is rarely so nice and neat. I don’t expect my books to tie off everything with a beautiful bow. Loose ends seem more real. And leaves room for debate - what happened next?  

You raise a very insightful observation…whether it’s “real life” or WOT or whatever, the true excitement and adventure of my experience is typically, and forgive the cliche, the journey not the destination. Once I “know” something is final, I tend to lose interest as it becomes almost boring to me if it has no where else to go or grow from there. I fully admit the paradox or hypocrisy in my original statement, expressing the usual tendency is towards basic nature to seek security and want clear answers defined externally. I realize now that once they are established they tend to lose their intrigue/magic. This means the mystery itself is more real and provides a vastly more significant impact to the experience, partially due to the opportunity to co create and imagine possibilities without limits. I tend to ramble but my point is thanks for your wise words and their affect on helping me to realize that!

[Asthereal]

On 4/1/2023 at 10:53 AM, DojoToad said:

Life is rarely so nice and neat. I don’t expect my books to tie off everything with a beautiful bow. Loose ends seem more real. And leaves room for debate - what happened next?  

 

This is definitely true. Also, the fact that Jordan isn't with us anymore means that every little detail that doesn't get explained in the books or in his notes is doomed to remain a mystery forever.

[DojoToad]

15 minutes ago, Asthereal said:

 

This is definitely true. Also, the fact that Jordan isn't with us anymore means that every little detail that doesn't get explained in the books or in his notes is doomed to remain a mystery forever.

Wish that were so.  Reveals by Brandon and/or Jordan's teams have been disappointing for me so far.

[Asthereal]

4 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

Wish that were so.  Reveals by Brandon and/or Jordan's teams have been disappointing for me so far.

 

Sanderson and Jordan's team have refused to answer certain questions because they didn't have notes from Jordan, which is what I was referring to. Sanderson only wants to comment of what he worked on himself, and the main reveal from the 10 year anniversary was one that he wrote and planned from the start. He had little to go on for Lanfear and decided to write a scheme for her that his biggest beta reader felt was too obvious, but nobody else picked up on.

 

But I think we discussed this already. To me that reveal clears up something that I thought was odd and out of character, but to you it felt like an "interesting post mortem reveal" in the style of JK Rowling. I don't think we're going to find agreement there. 😉

[Elgee]

7 hours ago, Lightfriendsocialmistress said:

This means the mystery itself is more real and provides a vastly more significant impact to the experience, partially due to the opportunity to co create and imagine possibilities without limits.

 

I'm trying to figure out now if I feel the same way about that, or not ... I do also love when something that RJ mentioned briefly 12 books ago, suddenly pops back up in a significant way (the fore-shadowing, as it's referred to here). Is that unrelated to your premise above, or in contradiction? Ima have to ponder! 😁😍

[Sabio]

You also have to remember Jordan said he wasn't a fan of every loose end being tied up or explained.  It's quite possible many of the things he left no notes about were things he never planned to tie up.

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

15 hours ago, Elgee said:

 

I'm trying to figure out now if I feel the same way about that, or not ... I do also love when something that RJ mentioned briefly 12 books ago, suddenly pops back up in a significant way (the fore-shadowing, as it's referred to here). Is that unrelated to your premise above, or in contradiction? Ima have to ponder! 😁😍

I really like what you say here! I kinda think there’s room for both to be true at the same time. The excitement of finally learning the truth about a long awaited reveal is so satisfying, but sometimes the mystery of certain loose ends keeps the magic alive. If everything was resolved, then who knows how many people would reread multiple times and if nothing was resolved who knows how many people would bother to reread. 

[Disco]

Yes I was old school (I came in when book 7 was first released in Australia, 1997 I think) and used to hang on every FAQ being updated

 

Yes I assumed Moridin was Ishy from the get go, my memory says we all did 

Edited April 9, 2023 by Disco

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

I just came across another moridin/ishy plot in my reread which is the beginning of POD. He has 2 mindtraps (can’t remember how to spell corisovra or some such) one is moghediean and who is the other? Lanfear? Can’t remember