Portal Stones. Increasing Rands Skills in Sword Fighting

[Lexi Eve]

I'm reading The Wheel of Time for the 2nd time, all 15 books from start to finish, even including the prequel book. 

I'm on the last 50 pages of book 2, The Great Hunt. 

So many things have stood out to me now that I really know the characters and plots. 

For instance, now just finishing chapter 45, Rand fights the High Lord Turak of the Seanchan. 

To get to Falme, Rand, Lord Ingtar, Mat, Perrin Hurrin and the small army of Shienarans, had to travel across the entire continent from Cairhien to Toman Head, and with a clock ticking and a health concern pressing them, they had to use a Portal Stone to basically teleport. 

The art of using Portal Stones is long lost, but we know they traverse the multiverse, at the very least exploring other Earths that could have been if one or more big decision were made instead of what is and will be on the Earth that they are from. 

Well, of corse something goes wrong when Rand tries to teleport everyone and Rand sees a ton of other possible lives he could have lived, dying at the end of each. 

It is unclear if he lives through these lives, or even portions of these lives, enough to experience them, or whether he is just glimpsing them in his mind, such as watching TV, or like remembering a very detailed memory. 

That said, it made me think! 

He had been mildly training to use the sword as his main choice of weapon. Lan, a very strong and powerful warrior had been Rand's master, training Rand in the art of sword fighting. While Rand becomes okay, he gets better by clearing his mind which he calls entering The Void and visualizing a fire 🔥 to throw all mental and emotional distractions into. This helps tremendously to boost his fighting skill level, but when he enters the Void lately, he opens himself the Male source of channeling the Light, Saidin (using Magick). When he grapples with Saidin, his skills in sword fighting improve like 10 fold; he becomes one with the sword, the fight, his surroundings, his opponent, ALL THINGS. 

This accounts for how he is keeping pace in his fight with Turak because Turak is a BLADE MASTER! 

I wonder! I think that by living through various lives while teleporting with the Portal Stone, he perhaps has gained hundreds of lifetimes worth of experience in all areas of life. At first it doesn't seem that way, but now rereading this story, it really makes sense to me. In many of the lives he saw or lived through while using the Portal Stone, he was a soldier or sword fighter of various kinds: a Queen's Guard, soldier and other things! 

If this is all true, then how he bests Turak is that he suddenly, unconsciously, instinctively and reflexively begins drawing off of skills that were put into his head by living through or just seeing the visions of all of those many lives the Portal stone showed him / made him live through! 

This to me is such a cool concept and accounts for a lot because just after this part of the series, there is a huge change in Rand. He VERY QUICKLY becomes less and less of the child he was just one book prior, and immediately begins growing into the Role of a Lord, a soldier, General and King!

[DojoToad]

I don’t think so. Wouldn’t everyone with him have experienced the same?  Don’t remember everyone else becoming a blade master or whatever master through the journey. 
 

They lost some time against the rest of the world, but I always thought they were in some kind of stasis, otherwise wouldn’t Mat have died from the dagger taint?

[Lexi Eve]

  On 8/20/2022 at 11:48 AM, DojoToad said:

I don’t think so. Wouldn’t everyone with him have experienced the same?  Don’t remember everyone else becoming a blade master or whatever master through the journey. 
 

They lost some time against the rest of the world, but I always thought they were in some kind of stasis, otherwise wouldn’t Mat have died from the dagger taint?

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Sort of. I think there is a plot hole of sorts here. Perrin REALLY seems to have experienced something about Rand that from this moment on changes the way he views Rand. It reads like Perrin too lived something in visions that made him say to Rand about him being the Dragon and Fighting the Dark One, "Well, it cannot be any other way." That and Perrin then goes into a withdrawn state of deep contemplation insinuating that he lived multiple lives which showed him what can happen if Rand doesn't embrace being The Dragon Reborn. 

[Lexi Eve]

Yes, in fact, I just reread chapter 19 of book 3 The Dragon Reborn. Right after Mat is healed of the Dagger from Shadar Logeth, he wakes in a Room in the White Tower and recalls vaguely, "Portal Stones and other lives lived." He goes on to think about those lives and how he was a Generaleading armies, and The Gambler. It is from thisoment on, due to the Portal Stone memories, that Mat begins to live up to a whole yo potential as a Soldier and General. 

 

It definitely appears to me that the Portal Stone affected the Consciousness and therefore the character and actions of AT LEAST Rand, Perrin and Mat. 

[Aan-Alone]

IIRC, when Rand gets the portal stone to work correctly, and the troupe finally 'flickers' to Toman Head, there are a few exclamations. From Perrin "We really don't have much choice, do we?" and Mat "Rand, I swear! I will never try to leave you."

 

Or something along those lines. This implies that, for the super-boys at least, they experienced those other lives in some fashion. Most likely a similar experience to the AS Accepted test.

 

Imo anywho.

 

I don't recall anyone else in the troupe making any exclamations about the prolonged teleport. But, had everyone had a similar experience, that might go a long way towards explaining Masemma (sp?).

[MostOfTsushima]

Lexi Eve! I love it 🙂 

 The chapter where Rand reclaims the Horn of Valere and the dagger  from Fain, dark friends and trollocs- while battling his internal need to use Saidin is epic!

 I do not think your swordplaytheory is what Robert Jordan intended, but ... reliving pretty much infinite lives could not have hurt for Rand, as far as general wisdom and maturation goes. 

  By far the most important lesson from the Portal Stones for Rand (in particular) was the fact that he was destined to Channel Saidin, and was undeniably the Dragon Reborn.  As you probably know, Rand did not accept the idea that he was truly Lews Therin Reborn when confronted by the Amyrlin seat, it just re-established his conviction that he would NOT BE USED by anybody.  Ba'alzamaon or the White Tower. 

' It was only when reliving all of those lives months later, living and dying matched against his ancient rival, Ishamel (whether aware or not) that the truth sunk in.

 

 

[MostOfTsushima]

SWORDSMANSHIP!  I think Rand is naturally athletic and in shape from his youth and life as a farmhand.  He learned the flame and the void from a secret blademaster in his father, Tam, throughout his youth and also is a genetic BEAST from his Aiel ancestry!  Obviously training in between book 1 and book 2 with the most legendary Warder alive, Lan,  doesn't hurt.   But you know all this!

      I feel like Robert Jordan made a nice little recipe for a young man with amazing natural ability to become a rapidly improving swordsman. 

    The way Rand Channels throughout all the books is very intuitive and often times out of his control and beyond his conscious knowledge, as Lews Therin reborn (madness included) ,  a man who also lived as blademaster for hundreds of years.   So to say Rand is a "natural" is a pure understatement.  

So if I disagree with anything, Lexi Eve, it's the idea that according to the story that Robert Jordan tells- Rand Althor should NOT be able to beat a blademaster by the end of book 2??

            Rand is questioned about rockin' a heron mark blade from the beginning of book 1, only keeps the sword as a reminder of who his father is and pure stubborness,  and is finally challenged by the end of book 2.  All of these factors, combined with being the most powerful ta'veren of all time!

          Now Matt Cauthon's ability with the Ashandarei, alongside his naturally ability with a quarterstaff! Matt's internal narrative and thoughts concede that he gained xp and skills from the memories of his past selves!  His conscious memories from past lives are a tool that Jordan uses and admits are a part of that characters skillset, no need for speculation whatsoever.  

      As far as Rand becoming Lord, soldier, General, and King.  These were all roles that Rand denied, fought and struggled against until he eventually accepted, mostly due to his solid upbringing and Lan's influence in developing a deeper sense of duty.  At no point in the entire Wheel of Time series is it stated that Rand is GOOD at any of these things, King OR General. He's generally feared by most and hated by many, and never loved as a king or admired as a general.  His skill with the blade or as a warrior might be the only thing he truly did excel at, and i'm not sure he ever even surpassed his father Tam, let alone Lan with the Blade.  Shit, Galad, and even Gawn might've suprassed Rand's blade skills by the end of the last book ( one hand or both).  

[Andra]

It's certainly possible that Rand benefited from skills gained in these different lives.  We do know from what other characters said after the Portal Stone experience that they also lived other lives.  Not just Mat and Perrin, but also Ingtar and Verin.

 

But by far the most valuable thing Rand gained wasn't skill with the sword, or in channeling, or even in being a leader.  It was the absolutely certain knowledge that - in thousands of lives lived - he had never given in to the Dark One.

 

Absolutely certain, and absolutely essential knowledge later in the story.

[Just me. KK]

This is great!  
Matt and Rand are hero’s of the horn, (Rand is obvious, Lewis, the dragon, etc….  May is less elaborated at “The Gambler” most recently lived during the Manetheren era, and acknowledged as such in Falme by the other Hero’s.)

They are destined to have great skills/atributes, as well as their Ta’veren, so they all get bonus attributes. 
These skills were certain to shine through, but I love this idea of them being honest during the portal blinks. It certainly left effects mentally, but not clear, like fading (vivid) dreams. It could have unlocked their destined skills without full understanding. Matt’s sudden ability to to not only be good with the staff, but excel and dominate to very talented swordsmen in training (Galad & bro), without any actual training himself, really speaks volumes, similar to how the skills of speaking in the old tongue would unconsciously pop out. 
 

The unlocking of reclusive skills seems more likely, as none of the others really showed any signs of advanced abilities. Yea, experiences and memories, but not skill increase near Rand & Matt’s leaps. Not even Perrin. 
 

my question with the portals, is if any of the others lived so many lives, yet they didn’t include the revelation of Rand as the dragon?  Seems unlikely, though none acted so differently around Rand. 
 

 

I loved the positive spin of Rand’s revelation that in all his lives lived, he’d never given into the dark one. That’d spike his confidence. Where my original impression was his understanding that in thousands of lives, he’d always died. That’s the determination and acceptance I saw in him, to simply force through to the finish line and be done with this last battl sooner than later. It was a time before he had so many strong ties and reasons to live on, as eventually he’d gained more relationships and responsibilities pushing him to be slightly less reckless. 

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

About revealing Rand as the Dragon Reborn, only those intimately close to the Dragon would be able to recognise that. Plus it would seem that in the majority of the lives, Rand was not heralded as the true Dragon Reborn, and each of the soldiers could have drastically different lives. Verin of course already knows. Add in that the memories quickly faded, and their focus would probably be on their own experiences which given all the lives would include a lost Tar'mon Gaiden would probably be fairly traumatic. 

 

For Mat and Perrin, that would ruin the story at that point so we just don't get to see their experiences and the knowledge they gained is never directly addressed. Necessary for the plot, sadly. Just like we never see Rand's first trip to the Finns. 

[JyP]

  On 5/11/2024 at 5:26 AM, Andra said:

It's certainly possible that Rand benefited from skills gained in these different lives.  We do know from what other characters said after the Portal Stone experience that they also lived other lives.  Not just Mat and Perrin, but also Ingtar and Verin.

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The more I think about it, the more the Portal Stone and infinite lives triggers some changes that will definitely impacts what happens afterwards - Perrin's quiet acceptance, Mat's attitude about Rand, Ingtar's return to the Light, Masema's sickness... and maybe even Verin's return to the Light ?

 

 

[Andra]

  On 2/7/2025 at 12:39 PM, JyP said:

 

The more I think about it, the more the Portal Stone and infinite lives triggers some changes that will definitely impacts what happens afterwards - Perrin's quiet acceptance, Mat's attitude about Rand, Ingtar's return to the Light, Masema's sickness... and maybe even Verin's return to the Light ?

 

 

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They all seem to have been affected by what they experienced, based on nothing more than their immediate responses.  But some of their arcs were probably inevitable.

Verin didn't actually stray from the Light, so there was nothing to "return" to.  She had essentially become a mole in the enemy's organization, not an actual Darkfriend.  What she saw only seemed to reinforce her previous choices.

Ingtar's redemption was more a matter of realizing there was real hope where he had previously been hopeless.  But he was always the same honorable man inside.  I believe that, if he had lived, he would have sought redemption before the end regardless.

Masema was going to end up a madman no matter what happened.

 

It's hard to say whether Mat and Perrin actually changed based on what they experience via the Portal Stone, or by what they experienced over the following days.  Though Mat at least did seem disturbed by what he learned about himself.

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

  On 2/6/2025 at 5:38 PM, Just me. KK said:

not skill increase near Rand & Matt’s leaps. Not even Perrin. 

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At the start of book 3 Perrin has the skills to beat a fade single handed after being significantly injured by a trolloc, and later to take on several whitecloaks at once and impress an Aiel with his skill - appears to be a substantial jump in proficiency from that described in book 1 and early book 2, even allowing for time training over the winter camping in the mountains.

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

While the Portal Stones are neat explanation in this case, I think it would be fairer to put that down to the necessary power crescendo that was Jordan was building given that the series may come to an abrupt end at any point. Trollocs started as terrifying, and Fades certain death. Very quickly any number of Fades are seen as little more than an inconvenience. 

 

We don't see this effect in any other part of their lives, and Perrin becomes a warrior nearly without equal, despite having nothing more muscles trained at the forge. He has no Flame and Void, no training, no natural apitutude mentioned, the best explanation we get is it is from the wolf within. Against the Shaido, Roland does get the better of him, but Perrin is using weapons he has never used before and cuts his way through any number of Aiel. I suppose you could also use the effect of being a ta'veren as an explanation, but really you still need poetic licence in my humble opinion. 

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

  On 2/8/2025 at 2:56 PM, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

Very quickly any number of Fades are seen as little more than an inconvenience. 

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The only individual I recall defeating more than one fade at once in close combat is Lan, in the final book.  More than one dies in the battle of Emond's Field (mostly to massed longbow fire) but most of their edge is wasted in a daylight mass charge - their role there is to force the trollocs to attack.  

[Andra]

One thing people tend to forget about the battle skills of all three of them - or pretty much all of the Two Rivers - is what happened just after the group crossed the Taren, and Lan decided to start training the Boys as a way to kill time.

They were all much better to begin with than Lan expected.  Because without quite understanding it, the entire district trained for war for their entire lives.  And had done for centuries.  The boys' explanation to Lan about the contests of strength and skill they took part in for fun during festivals was to make the reader get a little chuckle.  But in fact, it meant far more than that.

Manetheren died, but its warrior traditions persisted in what the common folk viewed as just their local traditions.  They were formidable without even knowing it.

 

All three of them started out as surprisingly competent fighters.  And then they started training in earnest - first with probably the most highly-skilled Warder alive, and then with the people who he grew up with, who nearly matched him in skill.

Before the Portal Stone, they were all three almost as good as the best the Borderlands had to offer.  And while neither Mat nor Perrin ever attained proficiency with the Flame and Void, they each had their own alternative to it.

We don't really need thousands of lives to explain it.  The lives we see do enough of it for the story.

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

  On 2/9/2025 at 1:48 AM, bringbackthomsmoustache said:

The only individual I recall defeating more than one fade at once in close combat is Lan, in the final book.  More than one dies in the battle of Emond's Field (mostly to massed longbow fire) but most of their edge is wasted in a daylight mass charge - their role there is to force the trollocs to attack.  

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  Quote

Halfmen have powers of a kind, the sort that stem from the Dark One. Only the weakest Aes Sedai would fail to be a match for a Fade, one against one, but many a good man and true has fallen to them.

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In the beginning, you needed to be the best swordsman in the world and have the benefits (and protection from their "powers") of the Warder bond to be a match for a Fade. We see one Fade comfortably defeating a whole group of Borderlanders. Very quickly we see that a country boy with big arms can comfortably defeat one, a small group of Aiel can confidently attack three Fades, ending up that humans can resist an entire battalion of Halfmen at the Last Battle. It is simple power creep - and given the situation of how the books were written I don't think Jordan can criticized too much about this. Their weakness to the One Power also makes their prowess against non-Channellers rather moot anyway.

Edited February 9 by HeavyHalfMoonBlade

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

  On 2/9/2025 at 1:52 AM, Andra said:

One thing people tend to forget about the battle skills of all three of them - or pretty much all of the Two Rivers - is what happened just after the group crossed the Taren, and Lan decided to start training the Boys as a way to kill time.

They were all much better to begin with than Lan expected.  Because without quite understanding it, the entire district trained for war for their entire lives.  And had done for centuries.  The boys' explanation to Lan about the contests of strength and skill they took part in for fun during festivals was to make the reader get a little chuckle.  But in fact, it meant far more than that.

Manetheren died, but its warrior traditions persisted in what the common folk viewed as just their local traditions.  They were formidable without even knowing it.

 

All three of them started out as surprisingly competent fighters.  And then they started training in earnest - first with probably the most highly-skilled Warder alive, and then with the people who he grew up with, who nearly matched him in skill.

Before the Portal Stone, they were all three almost as good as the best the Borderlands had to offer.  And while neither Mat nor Perrin ever attained proficiency with the Flame and Void, they each had their own alternative to it.

We don't really need thousands of lives to explain it.  The lives we see do enough of it for the story.

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This is a fantastic rationalisation, but I don't think it is supported by the books. Mat and Perrin barely trained with Lan at all. As I remember Perrin was set some basic exercises, and we never see him practice weaponry again in the story that I can remember. I don't remember Lan being particularly impressed at any point, but that could be my failing. 

 

The games, perhaps being based on Highland games, would only show off what talents that the Fielders already had. We never hear of anyone training. The smith was the strongest man due to his profession, not any training regime. Indeed, having someone as strong as Master Luhhan, would make training strength for the vast majority of the villagers pointless in terms of competing in a competition. The same for footraces (or any other discipline) - only those gifted in the sport would be motivated to cultivate that ability. The Fielders, with perhaps the exception of the quarterstaff (though again this highlights the change in Mat's character, that even when prompted by Lan, "Gollem" Mat didn't think about his amazing proficiency with the weapon) never show any skills that they would not use in their everyday lives. To claim they were trained to be soldiers or warriors is not backed up by any information in the books that I can remember. Indeed, they are very against the command structure needed for soldiery and only got around to it under extreme duress when they then decided they loved having unelected officials that controlled much of their lives. Who wants freedom, huh?

 

Mat has a lot reasons for being special - the "old blood running strong" with his ability to speak the old tongue in snatches (a feature not explored in much depth or in anyway explained) and his memories given by the Finn. Perrin on the other hand, doesn't really have any of these features except strength and some sort of barezerk rage, either inherent or from being a wolfbrother. But he is a ta'veren, and is cloaked in plot armour, and has a touch of main character syndrome. He couldn't just remain a clumsy country oaf, but I think Jordan could have done more to justify martial prowess in story.

[Andra]

  On 2/9/2025 at 6:09 PM, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

This is a fantastic rationalisation, but I don't think it is supported by the books. Mat and Perrin barely trained with Lan at all. As I remember Perrin was set some basic exercises, and we never see him practice weaponry again in the story that I can remember. I don't remember Lan being particularly impressed at any point, but that could be my failing. 

 

The games, perhaps being based on Highland games, would only show off what talents that the Fielders already had. We never hear of anyone training. The smith was the strongest man due to his profession, not any training regime. Indeed, having someone as strong as Master Luhhan, would make training strength for the vast majority of the villagers pointless in terms of competing in a competition. The same for footraces (or any other discipline) - only those gifted in the sport would be motivated to cultivate that ability. The Fielders, with perhaps the exception of the quarterstaff (though again this highlights the change in Mat's character, that even when prompted by Lan, "Gollem" Mat didn't think about his amazing proficiency with the weapon) never show any skills that they would not use in their everyday lives. To claim they were trained to be soldiers or warriors is not backed up by any information in the books that I can remember. Indeed, they are very against the command structure needed for soldiery and only got around to it under extreme duress when they then decided they loved having unelected officials that controlled much of their lives. Who wants freedom, huh?

 

Mat has a lot reasons for being special - the "old blood running strong" with his ability to speak the old tongue in snatches (a feature not explored in much depth or in anyway explained) and his memories given by the Finn. Perrin on the other hand, doesn't really have any of these features except strength and some sort of barezerk rage, either inherent or from being a wolfbrother. But he is a ta'veren, and is cloaked in plot armour, and has a touch of main character syndrome. He couldn't just remain a clumsy country oaf, but I think Jordan could have done more to justify martial prowess in story.

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I think you have misread Lan's reaction to the boys, as well as how much training he gave them on that trip.

Considering how inexpressive Lan is, his reaction indicates astonishment at all three of their skills with the bow.  He was even more surprised that they didn't consider themselves to be all that special.  Mat didn't think about his amazing proficiency with the quarterstaff because he didn't realize he was amazingly proficient.  Compared to his and Rand's fathers - and to at least a few other men from the village - he wasn't.  He wasn't good enough to compete against the men yet.

 

From what we hear from Verin and Alanna's warders later, Two Rivers folk in general and Emond's Fielders in particular have somehow maintained an ability through their long peaceful history that is only surpassed by Borderlanders.

 

That doesn't mean they would have drilled as soldiers - something that would only make sense in people facing relatively frequent warfare - but that they retained and even reinforced the personal skills useful to individual warriors.  We don't see them training, per se - until the Whitecloaks and trollocs show up.  But we do hear of them "practicing."  The point being that they didn't think of what they were doing as training for battle, even though it was.  It was just practicing for the contests.  Or for hunting.  Or for protecting their flocks of sheep from predators.

 

Throughout the books, we see people being surprised by the fighting ability of Two Rivers folk - particularly the "Two Rivers Longbow."  Not just a few exceptional people, but many of them.

 

I don't believe this is a rationalization - fantastic or otherwise.  I believe Jordan intended it.  It's part of what "the Old Blood runs strong in the Two Rivers" is talking about.

 

As far as Lan training the boys - yes, it's true that he spent more time and energy on Rand.  But that's because Lan was a swordsman, and knew it best.  But he definitely trained Mat and Perrin as well.  Not so much with their individual weapons, but with the things every warrior needs to learn - self control, focus, attention to your surroundings, etc.  And we know this continued every night between Taren Ferry and Baerlon, at least.  And that this resulted in them holding their own when finally attacked by shadowspawn between Berlon and Shadar Logoth.  When Mat first starts shouting in the Old Tongue, and some of the others feel like they almost understand them.

 

The point is that Emond's Fielders are surprisingly good at fighting from very early in the story, and the Boys are surprisingly good with their individual weapons before they received any high-level training.  They then received actual training from Lan, and then the Shienarans.  Rand drilled every day on the trip by himself or with Ingtar, who admired his skill enough to question his background.  Remember that Rand had killed several grolm with his bow, and even gotten the wolf name Shadowkiller before even reaching Cairhien.

 

It's true that Jordan wrote all three of them as unrealistically good with weapons given how short their training was.  But he wrote them that way BEFORE living the "extra lives" through the Portal Stone.  Rand didn't have to be any better to kill Turak than he did to take back the Horn of Valere from Fain's trollocs and darkfriends.  The extra lives may have given him a kind of emotional certainty that he hadn't possessed, but they weren't need to explain his skill with the sword.

Edited February 9 by Andra

[JyP]

  On 2/8/2025 at 2:03 AM, Andra said:

Verin didn't actually stray from the Light, so there was nothing to "return" to.  She had essentially become a mole in the enemy's organization, not an actual Darkfriend.  What she saw only seemed to reinforce her previous choices.

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Well, unreliable narrators are somewhat common in WoT - it would not surprise me that Verin would lie a little about herself in her last hour, conversing with Egwene. Seems to me you cannot be part of Black Ajah without commiting your share of crimes. And an "official discourse" setup by Egwene about Verin seems to me more likely than Egwene admitting that Verin's change of behavior was caused by Rand.

[Samt]

  On 2/10/2025 at 9:49 AM, JyP said:

Well, unreliable narrators are somewhat common in WoT - it would not surprise me that Verin would lie a little about herself in her last hour, conversing with Egwene. Seems to me you cannot be part of Black Ajah without commiting your share of crimes. And an "official discourse" setup by Egwene about Verin seems to me more likely than Egwene admitting that Verin's change of behavior was caused by Rand.

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An interesting take for sure.  We know that Verin started her list before Rand was born, so he can’t have been the only factor.  That doesn’t mean he didn’t affect her choices or that there isn’t gray in her character.   But she wasn’t straight black that changed her mind when she met Rand.

[Andra]

  On 2/10/2025 at 9:49 AM, JyP said:

Well, unreliable narrators are somewhat common in WoT - it would not surprise me that Verin would lie a little about herself in her last hour, conversing with Egwene. Seems to me you cannot be part of Black Ajah without commiting your share of crimes. And an "official discourse" setup by Egwene about Verin seems to me more likely than Egwene admitting that Verin's change of behavior was caused by Rand.

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It's true that unreliable narrators seem to have been one of Jordan's most popular tropes.  But it's really difficult to reconcile the idea that Verin was lying about her motivations with the fact that she LITERALLY COMMITTED SUICIDE in order to be able to give Egwene her notes.

 

I don't think there is any basis at all in disbelieving Verin's claims about herself and her actions.  Particularly considering what Sheriam said when told about it.

Edited February 11 by Andra

[VooDooNut]

  On 2/14/2024 at 2:46 PM, MostOfTsushima said:

Lexi Eve! I love it 🙂 

 The chapter where Rand reclaims the Horn of Valere and the dagger  from Fain, dark friends and trollocs- while battling his internal need to use Saidin is epic!

 I do not think your swordplaytheory is what Robert Jordan intended, but ... reliving pretty much infinite lives could not have hurt for Rand, as far as general wisdom and maturation goes. 

  By far the most important lesson from the Portal Stones for Rand (in particular) was the fact that he was destined to Channel Saidin, and was undeniably the Dragon Reborn.  As you probably know, Rand did not accept the idea that he was truly Lews Therin Reborn when confronted by the Amyrlin seat, it just re-established his conviction that he would NOT BE USED by anybody.  Ba'alzamaon or the White Tower. 

' It was only when reliving all of those lives months later, living and dying matched against his ancient rival, Ishamel (whether aware or not) that the truth sunk in.

 

 

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It's interesting because it might explain where Rand's madness comes from. Maybe part of the reason he is so fixated on having a Lews Therin persona in his head is because he experienced Ishamael calling him by that name over infinite lives/deaths.