Portal Stones. Increasing Rands Skills in Sword Fighting

[Lexi Eve]

I'm reading The Wheel of Time for the 2nd time, all 15 books from start to finish, even including the prequel book. 

I'm on the last 50 pages of book 2, The Great Hunt. 

So many things have stood out to me now that I really know the characters and plots. 

For instance, now just finishing chapter 45, Rand fights the High Lord Turak of the Seanchan. 

To get to Falme, Rand, Lord Ingtar, Mat, Perrin Hurrin and the small army of Shienarans, had to travel across the entire continent from Cairhien to Toman Head, and with a clock ticking and a health concern pressing them, they had to use a Portal Stone to basically teleport. 

The art of using Portal Stones is long lost, but we know they traverse the multiverse, at the very least exploring other Earths that could have been if one or more big decision were made instead of what is and will be on the Earth that they are from. 

Well, of corse something goes wrong when Rand tries to teleport everyone and Rand sees a ton of other possible lives he could have lived, dying at the end of each. 

It is unclear if he lives through these lives, or even portions of these lives, enough to experience them, or whether he is just glimpsing them in his mind, such as watching TV, or like remembering a very detailed memory. 

That said, it made me think! 

He had been mildly training to use the sword as his main choice of weapon. Lan, a very strong and powerful warrior had been Rand's master, training Rand in the art of sword fighting. While Rand becomes okay, he gets better by clearing his mind which he calls entering The Void and visualizing a fire 🔥 to throw all mental and emotional distractions into. This helps tremendously to boost his fighting skill level, but when he enters the Void lately, he opens himself the Male source of channeling the Light, Saidin (using Magick). When he grapples with Saidin, his skills in sword fighting improve like 10 fold; he becomes one with the sword, the fight, his surroundings, his opponent, ALL THINGS. 

This accounts for how he is keeping pace in his fight with Turak because Turak is a BLADE MASTER! 

I wonder! I think that by living through various lives while teleporting with the Portal Stone, he perhaps has gained hundreds of lifetimes worth of experience in all areas of life. At first it doesn't seem that way, but now rereading this story, it really makes sense to me. In many of the lives he saw or lived through while using the Portal Stone, he was a soldier or sword fighter of various kinds: a Queen's Guard, soldier and other things! 

If this is all true, then how he bests Turak is that he suddenly, unconsciously, instinctively and reflexively begins drawing off of skills that were put into his head by living through or just seeing the visions of all of those many lives the Portal stone showed him / made him live through! 

This to me is such a cool concept and accounts for a lot because just after this part of the series, there is a huge change in Rand. He VERY QUICKLY becomes less and less of the child he was just one book prior, and immediately begins growing into the Role of a Lord, a soldier, General and King!

[DojoToad]

I don’t think so. Wouldn’t everyone with him have experienced the same?  Don’t remember everyone else becoming a blade master or whatever master through the journey. 
 

They lost some time against the rest of the world, but I always thought they were in some kind of stasis, otherwise wouldn’t Mat have died from the dagger taint?

[Lexi Eve]

13 hours ago, DojoToad said:

I don’t think so. Wouldn’t everyone with him have experienced the same?  Don’t remember everyone else becoming a blade master or whatever master through the journey. 
 

They lost some time against the rest of the world, but I always thought they were in some kind of stasis, otherwise wouldn’t Mat have died from the dagger taint?

Sort of. I think there is a plot hole of sorts here. Perrin REALLY seems to have experienced something about Rand that from this moment on changes the way he views Rand. It reads like Perrin too lived something in visions that made him say to Rand about him being the Dragon and Fighting the Dark One, "Well, it cannot be any other way." That and Perrin then goes into a withdrawn state of deep contemplation insinuating that he lived multiple lives which showed him what can happen if Rand doesn't embrace being The Dragon Reborn. 

[Lexi Eve]

Yes, in fact, I just reread chapter 19 of book 3 The Dragon Reborn. Right after Mat is healed of the Dagger from Shadar Logeth, he wakes in a Room in the White Tower and recalls vaguely, "Portal Stones and other lives lived." He goes on to think about those lives and how he was a Generaleading armies, and The Gambler. It is from thisoment on, due to the Portal Stone memories, that Mat begins to live up to a whole yo potential as a Soldier and General. 

 

It definitely appears to me that the Portal Stone affected the Consciousness and therefore the character and actions of AT LEAST Rand, Perrin and Mat. 

[Aan-Alone]

IIRC, when Rand gets the portal stone to work correctly, and the troupe finally 'flickers' to Toman Head, there are a few exclamations. From Perrin "We really don't have much choice, do we?" and Mat "Rand, I swear! I will never try to leave you."

 

Or something along those lines. This implies that, for the super-boys at least, they experienced those other lives in some fashion. Most likely a similar experience to the AS Accepted test.

 

Imo anywho.

 

I don't recall anyone else in the troupe making any exclamations about the prolonged teleport. But, had everyone had a similar experience, that might go a long way towards explaining Masemma (sp?).

[MostOfTsushima]

Lexi Eve! I love it 🙂 

 The chapter where Rand reclaims the Horn of Valere and the dagger  from Fain, dark friends and trollocs- while battling his internal need to use Saidin is epic!

 I do not think your swordplaytheory is what Robert Jordan intended, but ... reliving pretty much infinite lives could not have hurt for Rand, as far as general wisdom and maturation goes. 

  By far the most important lesson from the Portal Stones for Rand (in particular) was the fact that he was destined to Channel Saidin, and was undeniably the Dragon Reborn.  As you probably know, Rand did not accept the idea that he was truly Lews Therin Reborn when confronted by the Amyrlin seat, it just re-established his conviction that he would NOT BE USED by anybody.  Ba'alzamaon or the White Tower. 

' It was only when reliving all of those lives months later, living and dying matched against his ancient rival, Ishamel (whether aware or not) that the truth sunk in.

 

 

[MostOfTsushima]

SWORDSMANSHIP!  I think Rand is naturally athletic and in shape from his youth and life as a farmhand.  He learned the flame and the void from a secret blademaster in his father, Tam, throughout his youth and also is a genetic BEAST from his Aiel ancestry!  Obviously training in between book 1 and book 2 with the most legendary Warder alive, Lan,  doesn't hurt.   But you know all this!

      I feel like Robert Jordan made a nice little recipe for a young man with amazing natural ability to become a rapidly improving swordsman. 

    The way Rand Channels throughout all the books is very intuitive and often times out of his control and beyond his conscious knowledge, as Lews Therin reborn (madness included) ,  a man who also lived as blademaster for hundreds of years.   So to say Rand is a "natural" is a pure understatement.  

So if I disagree with anything, Lexi Eve, it's the idea that according to the story that Robert Jordan tells- Rand Althor should NOT be able to beat a blademaster by the end of book 2??

            Rand is questioned about rockin' a heron mark blade from the beginning of book 1, only keeps the sword as a reminder of who his father is and pure stubborness,  and is finally challenged by the end of book 2.  All of these factors, combined with being the most powerful ta'veren of all time!

          Now Matt Cauthon's ability with the Ashandarei, alongside his naturally ability with a quarterstaff! Matt's internal narrative and thoughts concede that he gained xp and skills from the memories of his past selves!  His conscious memories from past lives are a tool that Jordan uses and admits are a part of that characters skillset, no need for speculation whatsoever.  

      As far as Rand becoming Lord, soldier, General, and King.  These were all roles that Rand denied, fought and struggled against until he eventually accepted, mostly due to his solid upbringing and Lan's influence in developing a deeper sense of duty.  At no point in the entire Wheel of Time series is it stated that Rand is GOOD at any of these things, King OR General. He's generally feared by most and hated by many, and never loved as a king or admired as a general.  His skill with the blade or as a warrior might be the only thing he truly did excel at, and i'm not sure he ever even surpassed his father Tam, let alone Lan with the Blade.  Shit, Galad, and even Gawn might've suprassed Rand's blade skills by the end of the last book ( one hand or both).  

[Andra]

It's certainly possible that Rand benefited from skills gained in these different lives.  We do know from what other characters said after the Portal Stone experience that they also lived other lives.  Not just Mat and Perrin, but also Ingtar and Verin.

 

But by far the most valuable thing Rand gained wasn't skill with the sword, or in channeling, or even in being a leader.  It was the absolutely certain knowledge that - in thousands of lives lived - he had never given in to the Dark One.

 

Absolutely certain, and absolutely essential knowledge later in the story.

[Vermont]

On 8/20/2022 at 4:20 AM, Lexi Eve said:

I'm reading The Wheel of Time for the 2nd time, all 15 books from start to finish, even including the prequel book. 

I'm on the last 50 pages of book 2, The Great Hunt. 

So many things have stood out to me now that I really know the characters and plots. 

For instance, now just finishing chapter 45, Rand fights the High Lord Turak of the Seanchan. 

To get to Falme, Rand, Lord Ingtar, Mat, Perrin Hurrin and the small army of Shienarans, had to travel across the entire continent from Cairhien to Toman Head, and with a clock ticking and a health concern pressing them, they had to use a Portal Stone to basically teleport. 

The art of using Portal Stones is long lost, but we know they traverse the multiverse, at the very least exploring other Earths that could have been if one or more big decision were made instead of what is and will be on the Earth that they are from. 

Well, of corse something goes wrong when Rand tries to teleport everyone and Rand sees a ton of other possible lives he could have lived, dying at the end of each. 

It is unclear if he lives through these lives, or even portions of these lives, enough to experience them, or whether he is just glimpsing them in his mind, such as watching TV, or like remembering a very detailed memory. 

That said, it made me think! 

He had been mildly training to use the sword as his main choice of weapon. Lan, a very strong and powerful warrior had been Rand's master, training Rand in the art of sword fighting. While Rand becomes okay, he gets better by clearing his mind which he calls entering The Void and visualizing a fire 🔥 to throw all mental and emotional distractions into. This helps tremendously to boost his fighting skill level, but when he enters the Void lately, he opens himself the Male source of channeling the Light, Saidin (using Magick). When he grapples with Saidin, his skills in sword fighting improve like 10 fold; he becomes one with the sword, the fight, his surroundings, his opponent, ALL THINGS. 

This accounts for how he is keeping pace in his fight with Turak because Turak is a BLADE MASTER! 

I wonder! I think that by living through various lives while teleporting with the Portal Stone, he perhaps has gained hundreds of lifetimes worth of experience in all areas of life. At first it doesn't seem that way, but now rereading this story, it really makes sense to me. In many of the lives he saw or lived through while using the Portal Stone, he was a soldier or sword fighter of various kinds: a Queen's Guard, soldier and other things! 

If this is all true, then how he bests Turak is that he suddenly, unconsciously, instinctively and reflexively begins drawing off of skills that were put into his head by living through or just seeing the visions of all of those many lives the Portal stone showed him / made him live through! 

This to me is such a cool concept and accounts for a lot because just after this part of the series, there is a huge change in Rand. He VERY QUICKLY becomes less and less of the child he was just one book prior, and immediately begins growing into the Role of a Lord, a soldier, General and King!

interesting