Episode one Deleted Scene released

[Mailman]

3 hours ago, agreddon said:

Am I bad in saying these scenes seem to ritualized, so to speak and I'd like a more personalized scene of Egwene being asked to become Nynaeve's successor?

Egwene was never going to be Nynaeves successor she was only around 10 years younger than her.

[Andra]

On 7/14/2022 at 6:38 PM, Mailman said:

We don't know.

Her mentor did travel all the way to Tar Valon though.

And as I said for viewers who are aware of the significance of the colors its a little strange to see her use them then be so strident in her hatred for the Tower 30 minutes later.

 

Which is why i am surprised by people praising the significance of the colors in the water. Either they are not aware of the link to the tower in which case it has no significance. Or they are which jars with Nynaeves hatred.

 

Something else to bear in mind:

Marin al'Vere recognized Moiraine as Aes Sedai on sight.  And there was little in the way of negative reaction to hearing her named in public as the book implied would happen.  So it's not that far of a stretch to think the White Tower and the Ajahs were more well-known in Two Rivers in the show than in the books.

 

Which doesn't address Nynaeve's hatred, but it does show the Women's Circle could've known exactly what the colors meant.

[Andra]

14 minutes ago, Mailman said:

Egwene was never going to be Nynaeves successor she was only around 10 years younger than her.

Actually, in the show it seems like it's closer to 5 years.

Edited July 16, 2022 by Andra

[SinisterDeath]

55 minutes ago, Mailman said:

Egwene was never going to be Nynaeves successor she was only around 10 years younger than her.

Emonds field isn't the only village in the two rivers.

Nynaeve could "retire" or "get married" if Egwene became wisdom. One of them could become a wisdom of another town. Or perhaps the town could have multiple wisdoms, because having one healer in town is dumb, if you could have two. 

[Mailman]

58 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

Emonds field isn't the only village in the two rivers.

Nynaeve could "retire" or "get married" if Egwene became wisdom. One of them could become a wisdom of another town. Or perhaps the town could have multiple wisdoms, because having one healer in town is dumb, if you could have two. 

Going from book knowledge it was i thought basically a position for life and you only had 1 Wisdom in each of the villages. Not that you could not have more than 1 healer but the position of Wisdom was leader of the Womans circle.

[Dagon Thyne]

On 7/15/2022 at 9:33 AM, SinisterDeath said:

 

How would them foreshadowing her becoming the Amyrlin, be a bad thing? 

IMO, the foreshadowing in the show is like fanservice. Book fans will spot it, and go "OMG Foreshadowing!" Non-book fans might pick up on it, they might guess what it means, but that doesn't exactly ruin the experience. The whole "Prophecy" theme that is ever present in WoT, is about knowing something Will happen, but not knowing How it will happen.

Same reason why they cut thescenes where Tam tells Rand he's adopted.  And saying he was born on a mountain while having a feverdream.   They don't want to give away major plot points if the can avpoid it  

[DojoToad]

5 hours ago, Dagon Thyne said:

Same reason why they cut thescenes where Tam tells Rand he's adopted.  And saying he was born on a mountain while having a feverdream.   They don't want to give away major plot points if the can avpoid it  

You’re assuming book knowledge. The show was not made for book readers. Coming into the show with no previous knowledge, nothing would have been given away by Egwene’s pool scene nor by Tam’s fever dream. But later in the show when more is known of the Aes Sedai and the prophecies of the dragon - then the connection would become obvious for some. 

[SinisterDeath]

9 hours ago, Dagon Thyne said:

Same reason why they cut thescenes where Tam tells Rand he's adopted.  And saying he was born on a mountain while having a feverdream.   They don't want to give away major plot points if the can avpoid it  

Yet, skipping that sequence left the viewer thinking of Rand as this childish dick, having a temper tantrum. 

 

Its not until we get the flashback scene, does his behavior start to make sense to the viewer.

 

If this were a detective/crime movie, there's nothing more frustrating to the viewer, then having all the evidence revealed at the end, and it all of being stuff off camera. 

 

[Dagon Thyne]

20 hours ago, DojoToad said:

You’re assuming book knowledge. The show was not made for book readers. Coming into the show with no previous knowledge, nothing would have been given away by Egwene’s pool scene nor by Tam’s fever dream. But later in the show when more is known of the Aes Sedai and the prophecies of the dragon - then the connection would become obvious for some. 

They mention the clors of the Ajahs and that the Amylin belongs to all and none.  People would figure it out.

 

And I belive the mention the dragon being born on dragonmout.  I knew Rand was the dragon early in EoTW, the first time it was mentioned.  Tam is clearly describing a mountain in the feverdream.  

[DojoToad]

4 hours ago, Dagon Thyne said:

They mention the clors of the Ajahs and that the Amylin belongs to all and none.  People would figure it out.

 

And I belive the mention the dragon being born on dragonmout.  I knew Rand was the dragon early in EoTW, the first time it was mentioned.  Tam is clearly describing a mountain in the feverdream.  

They're dropping clues but the viewers still have to put it together.  They are meant to figure it out eventually.  Had they had the pool scene in E1, would not be surprised if most non-readers didn't make the connection until their second time through the season.

 

Tam's fever dream is a giveaway, if you know that particular reference in the prophecies of the dragon.  I don't recall that the show made a point of highlighting that particular part...

[SinisterDeath]

4 hours ago, Dagon Thyne said:

They mention the clors of the Ajahs and that the Amylin belongs to all and none.  People would figure it out.

So what if some people who have never read the books figure it out? 
It's not like we didn't know Egwene was going to become Amyrlin since she first stepped through the rings in Tar Valon. 
It's also been awhile since I've read the "Ravens" Prologue, but she might have even said something along those in that to.

 

 

4 hours ago, Dagon Thyne said:

And I belive the mention the dragon being born on dragonmout.  I knew Rand was the dragon early in EoTW, the first time it was mentioned.  Tam is clearly describing a mountain in the feverdream. 

EoTW was almost entirely from Rand's POV, which made that pretty easy to guess.

With the Mystery they tried to create in Season 1, they could have included that scene and it still could have been a mystery. All they'd have to do is actually tell the audience a variety of contradictory prophecies that would point to each of the EF5.

By tell the audience, I mean actually give us lines from the prophecies.
Lines that mentions wolves, lines that mentions extraordinary gifts of healing, etc. 

If people figure it out by episode 3, oh well. But you haven't suceeded in a mystery unless you get "Team Rand" and "Team Nynaeve" for Dragon Candidates.

[Dagon Thyne]

On 7/18/2022 at 9:23 AM, DojoToad said:

They're dropping clues but the viewers still have to put it together.  They are meant to figure it out eventually.  Had they had the pool scene in E1, would not be surprised if most non-readers didn't make the connection until their second time through the season.

 

Tam's fever dream is a giveaway, if you know that particular reference in the prophecies of the dragon.  I don't recall that the show made a point of highlighting that particular part...

Apparently they DON"T want people to figure it out this early.  That's why they cut it and that was my exact point.  

[Dagon Thyne]

On 7/18/2022 at 9:25 AM, SinisterDeath said:

So what if some people who have never read the books figure it out? 
It's not like we didn't know Egwene was going to become Amyrlin since she first stepped through the rings in Tar Valon. 
It's also been awhile since I've read the "Ravens" Prologue, but she might have even said something along those in that to.

 

 

EoTW was almost entirely from Rand's POV, which made that pretty easy to guess.

With the Mystery they tried to create in Season 1, they could have included that scene and it still could have been a mystery. All they'd have to do is actually tell the audience a variety of contradictory prophecies that would point to each of the EF5.

By tell the audience, I mean actually give us lines from the prophecies.
Lines that mentions wolves, lines that mentions extraordinary gifts of healing, etc. 

If people figure it out by episode 3, oh well. But you haven't suceeded in a mystery unless you get "Team Rand" and "Team Nynaeve" for Dragon Candidates.

 

 

Yes, but in the show they wanted it to remain a mystery on who it was so that drop any and all scenes that could give it away until it was time to reveal it.  That is my exact point.  They likely do not want anyone putting together that Egwene will become Amylin, and so they cut any scenes that could foreshadow that.  

[SinisterDeath]

1 hour ago, Dagon Thyne said:

Yes, but in the show they wanted it to remain a mystery on who it was so that drop any and all scenes that could give it away until it was time to reveal it.  That is my exact point.  They likely do not want anyone putting together that Egwene will become Amylin, and so they cut any scenes that could foreshadow that.  

And what I'm saying is that you can have a mystery while having foreshadowing.

With the EF5 dragon mystery, they could have kept the Rand/Tam scene (they could have even lowered the sound so you couldn't hear what he said), as they could have added other scenes and hints through out season 1 that could implicate any one of the EF5.
 
Moiraine mentioned Prophecies but only broadly, some prophecies say the dragon was a woman, others a man, some elude to multiple. If we got some actual prophecy text, like something mentioning wolves. Something about Mat finding the dagger. Then you have a solid mystery on your hands.
When you inject a scene from a prior episode that the audience didn't see, they feel cheated.

Cutting out Foreshadowing to keep a mystery is lazy, as foreshadowing is a great tool for any mystery. If you do it right, not everyone will notice. When it's revealed and you rewatch it you'll see that foreshadowing and go "You sly mothers..."

Besides, they did a ton of foreshadowing in the TV show, so they weren't adverse to foreshadowing spoiling.

IF you want to get down to the nitty gritty, this scene probably got cut because the execs thought it took too much time away from Pike.

 

[DojoToad]

17 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

And what I'm saying is that you can have a mystery while having foreshadowing.

With the EF5 dragon mystery, they could have kept the Rand/Tam scene (they could have even lowered the sound so you couldn't hear what he said), as they could have added other scenes and hints through out season 1 that could implicate any one of the EF5.
 
Moiraine mentioned Prophecies but only broadly, some prophecies say the dragon was a woman, others a man, some elude to multiple. If we got some actual prophecy text, like something mentioning wolves. Something about Mat finding the dagger. Then you have a solid mystery on your hands.
When you inject a scene from a prior episode that the audience didn't see, they feel cheated.

Cutting out Foreshadowing to keep a mystery is lazy, as foreshadowing is a great tool for any mystery. If you do it right, not everyone will notice. When it's revealed and you rewatch it you'll see that foreshadowing and go "You sly mothers..."

Besides, they did a ton of foreshadowing in the TV show, so they weren't adverse to foreshadowing spoiling.

IF you want to get down to the nitty gritty, this scene probably got cut because the execs thought it took too much time away from Pike.

 

Agreed.  Foreshadowing is all good when done well.  That way when they have a twist, reveal, or whatever later in the show it doesn't feel like they cheated.

 

An example from the books, when the Sharan army showed up at the Last Battle.  I didn't think that was well set up.  There were a few small clues, but I didn't feel enough to warrant a huge army with hundreds of channelers.  Felt like a cheat to me.

[SinisterDeath]

29 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

Agreed.  Foreshadowing is all good when done well.  That way when they have a twist, reveal, or whatever later in the show it doesn't feel like they cheated.

 

An example from the books, when the Sharan army showed up at the Last Battle.  I didn't think that was well set up.  There were a few small clues, but I didn't feel enough to warrant a huge army with hundreds of channelers.  Felt like a cheat to me.

Anyone remember the Simpsons Maggie shot Burns episode?