How different do you think the show would have been with 10 episodes, and if they had been given a full budget (like GOT season 1 funding) and if Mat hadn't been recast? (SPOILERS)

[Gothic Flame]

25 minutes ago, nsmallw said:

Has anyone tried to figure out who these figurines represent ? I've not seen anyone talk about that, at least in the forums I've been.  

Far right is likely Graendal. (Boobies... I'm a guy, I notice theses things)

The one holding a sword is probably Demandred. On his left...Lanfear? And next to her on the left is likely Ishamael. He's the only one with a covered face.

[DaddyFinn]

Sammael is probably the short guy

[Skipp]

1 hour ago, nsmallw said:

Has anyone tried to figure out who these figurines represent ? I've not seen anyone talk about that, at least in the forums I've been.  

1. is Moggy, there seems to be spiderweb motifs

2. I am guessing Semirhage

3. Sammael, there seems to be a scar on its face

4. is Ishamael as said in the episode

5. I am gussing Lanfear due to the dress

6. Asmodean because of the guitar..... or its Thom

7. I don't see any hints, gonna guess Demandred for plot reasons

8. Greandal due to it's proportions

[Skipp]

1 hour ago, EmreY said:

We could narrow the list down by who we believe are necessary to the story.  My guess (in declining order of importance) would be Ishamael, Lanfear, Asmodean, Bel'al, Graendal (apparently), Moghedien (or Mesaana), Demandred, and Semirhage.

 

So, left-to-right, my wildest of wild guesses (just to kick things off): Moghedien, Semirhage, Asmodean, Ishamael, Lanfear, Demandred, Bel'al, Graendal.

 

 

 

Be'lal is important?  I think he is the most cutable Forsaken.

[EmreY]

19 minutes ago, Skipp said:

Be'lal is important?  I think he is the most cutable Forsaken.

 

Fair enough.  And thanks for the guitar.  Before I put on my glasses I thought it was a sword.

 

...

 

Given your comments and @DaddyFinn's my revised list would now be the same as yours.

 

Left to right:

 

Moghedien, Semirhage, Sammael, Ishamael, Lanfear, Asmodean, Demandred, Graendal

[Katherine]

On 1/3/2022 at 3:08 PM, JeffTheWoodlandElf said:

Funny you say "if" WoT had a GoT level budget because season 1 WoT had a higher budget than GoT season 1 and somehow looks significantly worse than a show that's 10 years old haha 

 

Anyway, I actually think that 8 episodes should have worked just fine. 10 would have been ideal, but 8 is plenty. 

 

My Fantasy Rewrite: 

Episode 1: Winternight and leaving Emond's field

Episode 2: Baerlon (Introduce Whitecloaks

Episode 3: Shadar Logoth 

Episode 4: Team is Separated and out on the road. 

Episode 5: Rand and Mat in Caemlyn by themselves. Egwene and Perrin with Whitecloaks. 

Episode 6: Team meets up in Caemlyn and sets off through the Ways

Episode 7: The Ways and Fal Dara. Ends with the Team going off into the Blight. 

Episode 8: Eye of the World and Tarwin's Gap. 

 

I think an extended/two part first episode would have definitely been welcome, but my sense with the series wasn't that 8 episodes was too few. It was that the showrunners wasted so much time on show-original bullcrap that they then had to rush all the stuff that was actually in the books. 

 

However, if you were gonna add two extra episodes, I think expanding on the stuff that happens while the group was separated would have been nice. 

 

So maybe someone with more Television production knowledge can help me and correct me if I am wrong...... 

 

The sense I get is that RJ2 had his general outline and wishes for the show..... that writers had the general script outline complete with Steppin, sexy time with Moraine etc.  

 

Then when they were told they had an 8 episode limit, they just didn't adapt well. Sort of like when a Football coach has to switch from his Throwing QB to his back-up QB who is a natural runner... you either change the game plan or falter. 

 

This failure to adapt is also present in how they handled Barney's departure. I don't know how I would have handled it, but when you are the showrunner, your job is to handle problems both forseen and unforseen. 

 

 

 

 

On 1/3/2022 at 3:22 PM, Jaysen Gore said:

this thread needs more Covid acknowledgement.  I'm positive Covid wrecked the Logain followers attack, the Fal Dara attack, and the Blight scenes (see Canary Island location shots vs CGI blight, with related budget implications). So as bad as episode 8 was, there's a little voice telling me not to judge them too badly for it.  Especially when you add Harris's departure in.

 

 

Covid was a huge hurdle... no doubt. However while watching other shows that were forced to adapt to COVID like, Loki, The Witcher..... even Wandavision....... Those shows IMO were able to adjust and still produce a high quality show. I have no doubt that Rafe & Co. worked diligently to overcome these hurdles and did it with the best of intentions. However (as evidenced by the final product) they weren't up to the task. 

 

 

Edited January 7, 2022 by Katherine

[JeffTheWoodlandElf]

6 minutes ago, Katherine said:

Then when they were told they had an 8 episode limit, they just didn't adapt well. Sort of like when a Football coach has to switch from his Throwing QB to his back-up QB who is a natural runner... you either change the game plan or falter. 

 

An inability to adapt is Rafe's biggest failing, and I mean that in every possible way. Rafe had his vision and when push came to shove, he refused to deviate from it no matter the consequences. Ironic, considering how willingly he deviated from the source material at almost every conceivable juncture. 

[DaddyFinn]

5 minutes ago, JeffTheWoodlandElf said:

Rafe had his vision and when push came to shove, he refused to deviate from it no matter the consequences.

As if you or anyone of us know anything of that. ?

[Jaysen Gore]

1 hour ago, Skipp said:

1. is Moggy, there seems to be spiderweb motifs

2. I am guessing Semirhage

3. Sammael, there seems to be a scar on its face

4. is Ishamael as said in the episode

5. I am gussing Lanfear due to the dress

6. Asmodean because of the guitar..... or its Thom

7. I don't see any hints, gonna guess Demandred for plot reasons

8. Greandal due to it's proportions

I'm almost positive 2 is Mesaana, not Semirhage, since Mesaana plays a much bigger role in the political conflicts in the story, and will have a more effective conflict with one of our heroes.

[Katherine]

7 minutes ago, JeffTheWoodlandElf said:

8 minutes ago, JeffTheWoodlandElf said:

An inability to adapt is Rafe's biggest failing, and I mean that in every possible way. Rafe had his vision and when push came to shove, he refused to deviate from it no matter the consequences. Ironic, considering how willingly he deviated from the source material at almost every conceivable juncture. 

 

2 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

As if you or anyone of us know anything of that. ?

 

 

I will admit, in my emotional moments, I have been willing to attribute all sorts of nefarious and self-serving motivations to Rafe's decisions. 

 

However, when considered rationally, his team reached each decision with their full measure of effort and talent.

 

 

I just don't think they were up to the task. Plain and Simple.

[Gothic Flame]

1 hour ago, Skipp said:

6. Asmodean because of the guitar..... or its Thom

A guitar? I was looking for a harp.

*sigh*

[Skipp]

7 minutes ago, Jaysen Gore said:

I'm almost positive 2 is Mesaana, not Semirhage, since Mesaana plays a much bigger role in the political conflicts in the story, and will have a more effective conflict with one of our heroes.

This could very well be be true as I have no context aside from thinking Semirhage is so much more interesting of a character than Mesaana.

 

I think Mesaana's role could be given to Lanfear or Moggy or even Alavarin(promote her to 3rd age Forsaken along with Taim) without losing anything.  While you could give Semirhage's role to another forsaken I just like that there was 1 forsaken dedicated to Seanchan.

[JeffTheWoodlandElf]

6 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

As if you or anyone of us know anything of that. ?

Pretty confident that if Rafe had been willing to deviate from his vision for the sake of the story, he wouldn't have given Tarwin's Gap to a side character or introduced the absolutely world-breaking concept that the Dragon could be male or female or chosen to totally sweep the gendered nature of the One Power under the rug like a coward. 

 

Just a hunch. 

[Skipp]

2 minutes ago, Gothic Flame said:

A guitar? I was looking for a harp.

*sigh*

He seems to be griping the neck of the instrument.  I know people are still harping on the guitar, heh, but really does it matter? 

 

Keeping him with the same instrument as Thom keeps the gives the audience the same parallel as it did in the books.  We saw Gleeman Thom with a Harp and then we saw Gleeman Jasin Natael with a harp.  Now they both have guitars.

[JeffTheWoodlandElf]

4 minutes ago, Skipp said:

I know people are still harping on the guitar,

You are a god, my good sir. 

 

This one pun (accidental or no) is better than WoTtv in its entirety. 

[Katherine]

7 minutes ago, Skipp said:

This could very well be be true as I have no context aside from thinking Semirhage is so much more interesting of a character than Mesaana.

 

I think Mesaana's role could be given to Lanfear or Moggy or even Alavarin(promote her to 3rd age Forsaken along with Taim) without losing anything.  While you could give Semirhage's role to another forsaken I just like that there was 1 forsaken dedicated to Seanchan.

 

Yeah Semirhage was bone-chilling, terrifying in the books. I would LOVE to see her on screen.

 

For me personally, Mesanna was boring and most of her stuff was behind the scenes. If I remember, she really just acted as the motivator for Alvarian. 

Edited January 7, 2022 by Katherine

[Katherine]

2 minutes ago, Skipp said:

 I know people are still harping on the guitar,

 

Well done, good sir. 

[Jaysen Gore]

1 minute ago, Katherine said:

 

Yeah Semirhage was bone-chilling terrifying in the books. I would LOVE to see her on screen.

 

For me personally, Mesanna was boring and most of her stuff was behind the scenes. If I remember, she really just acted as the motivator for Alvarian. 

I too think Semirhage would be the more interesting character, but my reason for thinking it's Mesaana is:

 

Spoiler

She's Egwene's kill. And it would avoid the absolutely atrocious spanking scene.

 

[Skipp]

1 minute ago, Katherine said:

 

Yeah Semirhage was bone-chilling terrifying in the books. I would LOVE to see her on screen.

 

For me personally, Mesanna was boring and most of her stuff was behind the scenes. If I remember, she really just acted as the motivator for Alvarian. 

Even her reason for going over to the DO was boring.  I really appreciate the range of reasons the Forsaken have for submitting to the DO, except 3 or more using Jealously of LTT.  Having someone go over for such a petty reason of being denied their preferred job is great but with limited Forsaken let us go with the ones with better presence.

[Katherine]

5 minutes ago, Jaysen Gore said:

I too think Semirhage would be the more interesting character, but my reason for thinking it's Mesaana is:

 

  Hide contents

She's Egwene's kill. And it would avoid the absolutely atrocious spanking scene.

 

 

Forgot her connection to Egwene. 

 

Are you referring to the scene with her and Cadsuane? 

 

Spoiler

Yeah... .while the scene never bothered me in context..... you can't have an old white lady spank a black lady on screen. Even I draw the line at that  (all of this assuming that they cast according to their in-book descriptions).

 

Edited January 7, 2022 by Katherine

[Mat's Lost Eyeball]

3 hours ago, EmreY said:

We could narrow the list down by who we believe are necessary to the story.  My guess (in declining order of importance) would be Ishamael, Lanfear, Asmodean, Bel'al, Graendal (apparently), Moghedien (or Mesaana), Demandred, and Semirhage.

 

So, left-to-right, my wildest of wild guesses (just to kick things off): Moghedien, Semirhage, Asmodean, Ishamael, Lanfear, Demandred, Bel'al, Graendal.

 

 

 

You'd think if they were going to show Moghedien here, her design would evoke something spider-like. 

 

On another note, I know I'd registered a long time ago and don't know if I ever posted, but I had no idea what I set my username up to be.  I cracked up when I saw it posted.  Came back around to visit all the discussion regarding the series. 

Edited January 7, 2022 by Mat's Lost Eyeball

[Skipp]

29 minutes ago, Katherine said:

 

Forgot her connection to Egwene. 

 

Are you referring to the scene with her and Cadsuane? 

 

  Hide contents

Yeah... .while the scene never bothered me in context..... you can't have an old white lady spank a black lady on screen. Even I draw the line at that  (all of this assuming that they cast according to their in-book descriptions).

 

Shohreh Aghdashloo and RJ2 were talking on twitter about casting her for said role.

 

 

[Skipp]

5 minutes ago, Mat's Lost Eyeball said:

You'd think if they were going to show Moghedien here, her design would evoke something spider-like. 

 

On another note, I know I'd registered a long time ago and don't know if I ever posted, but I had no idea what I set my username up to be.  I cracker up when I saw it posted.  Came back around to visit all the discussion regarding the series. 

There seems to be some web-like motif on the lower off of the statue.

[Katherine]

As Cadsuane? 

 

I like it! 

 

Though this actress has a beautiful, melodious voice and I would hate to hear it uttering some of Cadsuane's dialogue! 

[Mat's Lost Eyeball]

9 minutes ago, Skipp said:

There seems to be some web-like motif on the lower off of the statue.

True.  I didn't really see it that way at first, but it could be.