S1E8: The Eye of the World v2

[Khan of Shadows]

16 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

 

Why not?

Because the average person watching isn't gonna conclude that the Horn is being kept in some sort of advanced plastic alloy from the AOL. They're gonna see it for what it is, i.e. a director not having the sense to tell his actors to act as if the box has heft to it

[Khan of Shadows]

14 minutes ago, Jaysen Gore said:

The changes to both Perrin and Lan are Hollywood tropes - Perrin's even has a name it's used so often. And one of the big problems loyal book readers are going to have is that it will be impossible to tell when Rafe ends and the suits begin on those types of changes. In these specific cases, I tend to blame Rafe more, since he could have accomplished the same goals in different ways inside his take on the story. Rafe also definitely gets the credit / blame for the Who is the Dragon? decision and approach, and all that lead to.

 

The suits deserve the blame for not giving the show enough running time / episodes to build up the EF5 through small character moments / training / conversations. And for not giving the production team enough time / budget to adjust properly for Covid and Barney's departure. Most of episode 8's issues are probably on the Suits, or Covid, and not the Production team's "fault"

That's very fair 

[Gothic Flame]

I kinda like the "kazoo" idea.

[KakitaOCU]

15 minutes ago, Khan of Shadows said:

Lol. Come on, dude. It doesn't even matter if you're right in a practical/technical sense, you don't put a legendary artifact in a plastic container. 

Why?  Because it doesn't play into some people's preconceived notions about what something should look like in a medieval fantasy series that actually takes place thousands of years in the future?

If I had a priceless artifact that had to be protected I'd put it in the most stable and defensible container I could.  Which would probably involve foam and plastic, not steel.

 

[fra85uk]

3 minutes ago, Khan of Shadows said:

Because the average person watching isn't gonna conclude that the Horn is being kept in some sort of advanced plastic alloy from the AOL. They're gonna see it for what it is, i.e. a director not having the sense to tell his actors to act as if the box has heft to it

Actually we all know that Excalibur was buried in a rock-looking piece of painted polyethilene peraphthalate.

[Gothic Flame]

Hmm...that explains safety deposit boxes... They're just not what they're used to be.

[DigificWriter]

The notion that Rafe and his team had to 'scramble' because Barney Harris just didn't show back up at Jordan Studios when production resumed in April of 2021 is a fallacy.

[KakitaOCU]

10 minutes ago, Khan of Shadows said:

Because the average person watching isn't gonna conclude that the Horn is being kept in some sort of advanced plastic alloy from the AOL. They're gonna see it for what it is, i.e. a director not having the sense to tell his actors to act as if the box has heft to it

Because you thought that?  Not everyone is going to have the same opinions and I'd rather the showrunners pick the right thing logically than use the wrong thing so some people don't misunderstand.

The box wouldn't have a lot of heft to it.  It'd weigh a few pounds plus the weight of the Horn itself.

[KakitaOCU]

1 minute ago, DigificWriter said:

The notion that Rafe and his team had to 'scramble' because Barney Harris just didn't show back up at Jordan Studios when production resumed in April of 2021 is a fallacy.

It's not specifically just because Harris didn't come back, it's the whole COVID impact in general.  They hadn't shot much of episode 7 or 8 when he left, but that still meant they had re-write the entire thing to adjust for Mat being gone.

[DigificWriter]

^ As far as I know, none of Episodes 7 and 8 had been shot when production was forced to shut down.

 

Barney's departure - which would have been preceded by a formal request on the part of either himself or his agents - happened at some point between the shutdown of production in March  2020 and the resumption of production in April 2021, and Rafe and his team would have therefore had more than ample time to reconfigure their original plans in order to account for it.

Edited December 31, 2021 by DigificWriter

[Jackdaw_Fool]

Do not remove the Horn of Valere from its packaging lest it lose its value and collectibility.

 

Soooooory. 

Edited December 31, 2021 by Jackdaw_Fool

[KakitaOCU]

20 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

^ As far as I know, none of Episodes 7 and 8 had been shot when production was forced to shut down.

 

Barney's departure - which would have been preceded by a formal request on the part of either himself or his agents - happened at some point between the shutdown of production in March  2020 and the resumption of production in April 2021, and Rafe and his team would have therefore had more than ample time to reconfigure their original plans in order to account for it.

A year is very little time to redo everything planned for two episodes to be honest.

[DigificWriter]

^ A good writer can turn out a script in a week to two weeks (or sometimes even less).

 

Brandon Sanderson didn't get an opportunity to consult on the scripts for Episodes 7 and 8 because they were rewritten during the shutdown (and amid the chaos of Barney asking to be released from his contractual obligations and the production team also having to figure out how yo shoot the final two episodes), but said rewrites would have long been finalized by April of 2021.

[Ralph]

1 hour ago, fra85uk said:

Because of Greta Sedai warning you about the pollution caused by plastic (probably produced by a company that has Moghedien among the stakeholders)

Greta was produced by a company...? 

 

Sorry not following

[Jaysen Gore]

1 hour ago, DigificWriter said:

The notion that Rafe and his team had to 'scramble' because Barney Harris just didn't show back up at Jordan Studios when production resumed in April of 2021 is a fallacy.

Hypothetically, his wife / mother / child came down with some semi-fatal disease in March, 2021. you still sure they had all sorts of lead time? I get all the contract stuff you're saying, but I can still come up with instances (Viggo Mortensen, for example) where they replaced a principle actor with less than 72 hours notice.

 

We DON'T KNOW why Barney Harris did not come back, and to assume standard Hollywood contract behaviour is not fair to him or the production. Nor can we assume how much warning the Production had that he wasn't coming back.

[DigificWriter]

^ A breach of contract would've been huge news, so it's a virtual guarantee that Rafe and his team knew that Barney wouldn't be coming back upon the resumption of production.

 

It is possible that I'm overestimating the length of time that they had to reconfigure their plans, but even if they had only a month or so to do rewrites, that would still have been adequate time to adjust to their new reality and account for Barney's absence.

Edited December 31, 2021 by DigificWriter

[Gothic Flame]

37 minutes ago, Ralph said:

Greta was produced by a company...? 

 

Sorry not following

Greta of the family Thunbergs..very old and distinguished family.

[Jaysen Gore]

Except my assumption is episodes 1-6 were basically in the can when they found out - they had a year for editing / FX on those episodes before Mar 2021. Which is why there's the weird recut / reshoot ending on Ep. 6 ("mat! Mat!!" ) with pre-existing footage of Harris.  So they were in a bad starting point, and couldn't retroactively establish a Perrin / Fain relationship, and so were left with no relationship between the EF5 and Fain.  Then they screwed the pooch with the dagger - and Fain with the dagger IS CRITICAL to season 2 - and so we're left with a steaming pile in Episodes 7 and 8 vis-a-vis Fain

 

Oh, and for the record I f'ing dare Hollywood to cry breach of contract for a personal family health issue.  Even if the show was entitled to legally, they'd get wrecked in the media. So I consider the fact that there hasn't been a breach suit completely null. We don't know why Harris left, but I can almost guarantee he didn't bail for some simple conscience reason. A no name actor with an 8 year guaranteed gig for Amazon? No f'ing way.

[Gothic Flame]

1 minute ago, Jaysen Gore said:

A no name actor with an 8 year guaranteed gig for Amazon? No f'ing way.

That does make sense... A gig like that... guaranteed income, experience...

[Yojimbo]

4 hours ago, KakitaOCU said:

Their problem is they see static as "accurate" and advancing character development as not matching the character.

Without going into super spoilers or anything since I know you're new to the series.  Books 1-5 Lan is a stoic superman who kills all he comes up against and never shows emotion save a few small moments with Nynaeve where he's still reserved and withdrawn.

Then New Spring hits as a prequel and essentially shows the character we see in the TV series, but that gets rationalized as being 20 years earlier and Lan "Got better" since then.

Then Lan from Books 7-11 Steadily develops into what we see in the series.  Then in the Sanderson books he back slides for no logical reason into "I must suicide charge the blight alone"  where he then goes through the same type of development again but with other people instead of just Nynaeve.

Is your "their" supposed to include me?   Because I find it a bit insulting to have someone tell me how I think or feel.   I bet I am not alone in that sentiment.

 

And I'm sorry, as much I respect a lot of what you write, but it is not wanting things to be STATIC to want characters to act as they were in the first few books or a 14 book saga during the first season of a TV show as opposed to having them act as they are in the last two or three books in said saga almost from the very beginning of the show.  It is wanting characters to be representative of who they are at the beginning of a story instead of skipping to how they are at the end of a story and leave them some room for growth.  Hence my contention that Lan has been butchered.  

[Jaysen Gore]

9 minutes ago, Gothic Flame said:

Greta of the family Thunbergs..very old and distinguished family.

I win again, Lews Thunberg...

[Yojimbo]

2 hours ago, DigificWriter said:

 

Why not?

Maybe because some of us would like a few details to remain true to the way they were written?

[fra85uk]

52 minutes ago, Ralph said:

Greta was produced by a company...? 

 

Sorry not following

I meant the plastic produced by...

[Jaysen Gore]

3 minutes ago, Yojimbo said:

Is your "their" supposed to include me?   Because I find it a bit insulting to have someone tell me how I think or feel.   I bet I am not alone in that sentiment.

 

And I'm sorry, as much I respect a lot of what you write, but it is not wanting things to be STATIC to want characters to act as they were in the first few books or a 14 book saga during the first season of a TV show as opposed to having them act as they are in the last two or three books in said saga almost from the very beginning of the show.  It is wanting characters to be representative of who they are at the beginning of a story instead of skipping to how they are at the end of a story and leave them some room for growth.  Hence my contention that Lan has been butchered.  

Lan has been butchered exactly the same way Aragorn was in Fellowship of the Ring, Arthur Curry was in Aquaman, Hal Jordan was in Green Lantern, and a bunch I'm too distracted to think of right this second. I fully agree with your position, but this IS NOT a Lan specific issue. this is Hollywood refusing to accept a fully realized hero who does not require a heroic journey arc from minute 1.

[WoTwasThat]

2 hours ago, KakitaOCU said:

I've seen this thought a few times.  Let me ask a question.

What's more durable and stable?  Steel or Plastic?  Just to share a bit, the military has developed a plastic that is 14 times stronger and 8 times lighter than steel.  

The Age of Legends is at minimum a thousand years ahead of us (At minimum, more likely several thousand).  What are they more likely to put the relic in?  A steel case that may rust or die to exposure?  Or a plastic that doesn't break down or wear and provides more protection and defense?

LOL. @KakitaOCU - you never disappoint. You offer by far the most creative defenses on this board. Double Thumbs Up.