Jump to content



Nature of Good, Evil, and Balance in the Wheel of Time


Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, Dedicated said:

This is exactly why I want there to be a God. survival of the fittest is fine for animals, but I like to think of myself and humanity as having greater potential than this. We're the first creatures that we know of with the ability to shape our environment in such a way that it shapes our future evolution and we seem to be trending towards a collectivist society with individuality dying. We need to care more about our philosophy and really live by our beliefs because it is the beliefs we live by that will determine the shape of our future. 

Two incidents that forced me to rethink about the objective morals were Friedrich Nietzsche struggle and the Nuremberg Trial after WW2.


Nietzsche who argued for "ubermensche/superman" where the humanity escapes  from Christian values as collectives and into more individual moral values that each person create to rise above (to put it simply). He had the vision/dream of a better humanity, but how we get there was the issue he wasn't able to give details. One of his struggles was when he served as a medical orderly in a war, he felt sympathy and pain for soldiers in hospitals. He thought he should be a superman that he preached about and rise above this basic human emotion for greater causes/goods, but he couldn't. He also felt alive as a human being as he valued the health and lives of these young soldiers. He desperately wanted to deny the objective morality of God, but he couldn't find any ways to achieve the superman without it.


After the WW2, the Nuremburg trial wasn't going well. Herman Goering was actually beating prosecutors Jackson and Fyfe. He argued what right and authority do Allies have to try him when he was a German. He was arguing that what he did what was good of Germans. Prosecutors finally was able to sway by calling his actions "crimes against the humanity". They were calling for something transcends national laws to higher laws. There are more details, but it's something for us to think about.


Bernard of Clairvaux once said "the hell is filled with good intentions and wishes". What he was saying is that each individual "believes" he is acting out of good intentions, however, many times, the result is good for him only or bring dire consequences that others need to pay for. The subjectivity morality is not sustainable in communal living because each of us ultimately look self good.


The problem is not that we don't believe in the objective morality. We just don't want to believe in the objective authority behind the morality. Do we trust the Man or God to have that authority?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
On 11/3/2021 at 3:35 PM, Dedicated said:

This is interesting. If I understand you correctly, you argue that we mistakenly view the "Wheel" a cosmic mechanism created by the "Creator", when the Wheel itself IS the "Creator"? I'm not sure if I agree, but it's a perspective I had not considered before.


On 11/3/2021 at 3:35 PM, Dedicated said:

I'm not sure I really understand the nature of the DO and the Creator. It seems to echo the Christian idea that there is the "Creator" who created everything including Satan and Satan can never overcome the Abrahamic God because Satan's power derives from it etc.

The characters in the books thinks Creator as an Abrahamic God who created the world and wheel of time. Also created DO and locked it away from the pattern. And whenever DO tries to corrupt the pattern in a major way Creator sends his champion and stops it. This is how characters think.

What I think is some prime entitiy called Wheel have two parts pushing and pulling Light and DarK. They are in a constant war and equal in power. One can never destroy the other. Both have champions. Maybe same champions reborn again and again. (Lews Therin and Elan Morin). I am not saying Wheel created Light and Dark. They are part of it.


On 11/3/2021 at 3:35 PM, Dedicated said:

I believe you are mistaken here but I could be misunderstanding your point. "Baalzamon" is apparently the Trolloc word for "Heart of the Dark". It's more of a title than anything. Unless you're referring to Ishamael (ie: Elan). 

Yes i am refering to Ishameal. In first book he calls himself Baalzamon in the dreams. When they tell Thom Merillin and after Moraine they think Baalzamon is Dark One himself. The names are interchaneable in their mind. 

Of course it is a title and forsaken knows about this but none of the good guys knows this. They think it is trolloc name for DO. In the Dark Side many of the Dark ajah sees Forsaken as "more than human". They are mytichal beings in their mind. These characters are Aes Sedai. They are highly educatd people but their understanding of cosmic beings like Light/DO/Creator/Pattern/Wheel of Time is minimal at best.


On 11/3/2021 at 3:35 PM, Dedicated said:

It was a cool moment to see Rand interacting with reality in a way that is similar to the way dreamers can exert their will in the dream world. It's almost as if Rand had achieved a level of existence beyond the pattern or reality.

I think there was a interwiew with Brandon Sanderson and he said he will not answer 3 things about the storry and one of them was "What is this "Power" Rand uses to lit the pipe?". We may never know the real anwser.

Edited by qlorin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Create New...