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Beowolf

Shielding and Testing....

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If a Channeler tried to weave a Shield on a non-channeler(thinking he was a Channeler), what would happen? Would the Channeler realize the target's inability to channel? If so, what's the point of complex tests?

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Guest Barmacral

So far as I know nothing would really happen. The channeller would probably realize their mistake and move on. Don't quote me on this though.

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I agree with Barmacral that the channeller would relize their mistake and move on but I think the test would still be needed to find people who can channell because I think that the ability has to manifest before the prson can be blocked from it.

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The channeler would not sense any difference if they shielded a non-channeler then if they had shielded a channeler who simply had not been channeling at the time. We have several comments throughout the series of men being held by Aes Sedai for some time until they realized the man could not channel. I rather doubt they remained unshielded for that time

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The Aes Sedai in Salidar talk about shielding Logain after Nynaeve heals him...before they believe she actually did it.

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From LOC, where the sisters are unsure whether logain was healed or not, the shield can be woven on anyone and i don't think that a channeler of the opposite sex can tell whether the shield is working or not. Same thing for stilling, as elyas said red sisters tried wanted to still him and he said it wouldn't 'work' if they tried.. this seams to suggest to me that they can still weave shields etc.. they will just be a waste of channeling.

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But Luckers, wouldn't any channeler naturally react to the shield, if slightly, even if they were only able to channel?

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Putting a shield on a non-channeler (or a channeler who either hasn't learned, or hasn't sparked yet) would be akin to putting handcuffs on a person without arms.

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The scene from LoC indicates they wouldn't know the difference though. The Aes Sedai want to shield him just in case. They think Nynaeve is lying and that Logain can't channel so they believe they can put a shield on a non-channeler.

 

If he can channel he would be able to push on the shield and the shielder DOES feel that if they're maintaining the shield, as evidenced by Rand's shielders while he's in the box and also by the Kin woman who shields Nynaeve in Ebou Dar. Though the lack of pushing wouldn't prove anything (especially in Logain's case because he wanted the Aes Sedai to think he was still gentled) but they could command someone to push on the shield as proof the person could channel.

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Putting a shield on a non-channeler (or a channeler who either hasn't learned, or hasn't sparked yet) would be akin to putting handcuffs on a person without arms.

 

Unfortunately no its not. It seems to be more akin to wrapping someone up in swaddling. They cannot sense wether they are actually containing something until the thing they are containing actually attempts to channel.

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The scene from LoC indicates they wouldn't know the difference though. The Aes Sedai want to shield him just in case. They think Nynaeve is lying and that Logain can't channel so they believe they can put a shield on a non-channeler.

 

If he can channel he would be able to push on the shield and the shielder DOES feel that if they're maintaining the shield' date=' as evidenced by Rand's shielders while he's in the box and also by the Kin woman who shields Nynaeve in Ebou Dar. Though the lack of pushing wouldn't prove anything (especially in Logain's case because he wanted the Aes Sedai to think he was still gentled) but they could command someone to push on the shield as proof the person could channel.[/quote']

 

Weren't they trying to make Nynaeve angry so she could heal Siuan and Leane?

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Guest Barmacral

Yes, but there was also quite a bit of actual disbelief from them too.

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That was when they actually taking her to Suian and Leane and speculating on what they'd do to her. This is when they arrive at Logain's rooms and they're arguing over what to do, and could it be true, and shouldn't we shield him just in case. Then Sheriam & Co. hustle her out. They wouldn't have been able to utter the words if they didn't believe them true.

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But Luckers, wouldn't any channeler naturally react to the shield, if slightly, even if they were only able to channel?

 

Probably, but not nessasarily. Logain certainly didn't. The issue is, however, that the channeler themself wouldn't sense any difference btween shielding a channler and a non-channeler.

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Jordan explained this ... I looked for the quote, but I haven't found it yet ... I'll keep looking though.

 

What it boils down to is, even in a person with the ability to channel (either someone who can learn, or someone with the spark who has not used it yet) there is NO connection with the Power to shield or to sever until the person touches the Source at least once. So, a person with the ability, but who has never used it, will feel and react in precisely the same way as a non-channeler if shielded or even if the weave to sever them is used ... it will have no affect on them at all. Since we have multiple POV descriptions of one person shielding another, it is obvious that the channeler feels something when a shield is effective. They would not get that feeling if the weave was used on someone who had never channeled, even if that person had the potential to channel. For that reason, the shielding weave could not be used to detect people with the spark or people who could learn.

 

As far as I can tell, a person who cannot channel (either with no ability or one who simply has not used it) being "shielded" under such circumstances would feel nothing, since nothing is being done to them.

 

I will keep looking for that quote, but I remember it being very clear when I read it.

 

Incidentally, that would mean that the more experienced sul'dam are actually using their ability to touch the Source. (I say this because Aviendha was able to shield two sul'dam in TFoH ch. 32) This is consistent with the sul'dam actually being able to see the flows being woven, something that cannot be done until one has touched the Source (see the Kin's "teaching" of the sul'dam with Elayne's party, also Joline and Edesina's work with Bethamin and Seta) It is interesting to speculate what Tuon's reaction would be to this knowledge ... she has probably touched the Source herself, given her experience as a sul'dam.

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