Two years fighting on Marendalar

[szilard]

Quote

 

Two years fighting on Marendalar, thirty thousand dead, and fifty times that shipped back to the mainland as property.

Assid Bakuun's PoV, TPoD, Ch. 22

 

I didn't know where to put this quote: into the eco thread, or into the pop thread? But, maybe, it deserves its own topic. Why not? We rarely talk about it.

So, 1.5 million people as property. Jordan just drops this number with a shrug, but I think it is very interesting. (Maybe Jordan wanted to create a pre-“The Amayar were all dead or dying. Men, women“ —her voice broke — ” children.” -situation, just without further elaboration? The zero reaction to the death of the Amayar was Jordan's biggest disappointment..., KOD, Ch. 22) I accept AB's 1.5 million, because why would he lie about it to himself? Or is he exaggerating it to calm himself?

 

No wonder that rebellions are strictly occasionally free-time activities, if their consequences are that harsh. But it looks like that sometimes (?) the people are not satisfied with current conditions of their society.

 

"De loin, c'était un diamant;
De pres, ce n'est plus qu'une larme."

 

From above, from a distance, the One Nation surely looks one nation, but observing it at close quarters indicates that under the quiescent surface there is desire, will to change the existing structure.

"vagy vedd példának a piciny füszálat:
miért nő a fű, hogyha majd leszárad?
miért szárad le, hogyha újra nő?"

/http://www.babelmatrix.org/works/hu/Babits_Mih%C3%A1ly-1883/Esti_k%C3%A9rd%C3%A9s/

 

This must have been a guerilla warfare (ironically, Rand used similar tactic against them), because the number of the deads is pretty low for a two years fighting. Sure, a rebellion is a rebellion, not a total war.

And where to accommodate so many people? How to feed, guard etc. them? For how long? Moreover, how do you ship them back? How do you integrate them? Is there any integration at all? What is happening on Marendalar now; is it absolutely depopulated?

And now, there's chaos.

 

 

Any thoughts?

Edited January 20, 2018 by szilard

[Sabio]

As the series goes numbers everywhere start to get a bit skewed.  Especially with army sizes.  IN the BWB it described the empire as almost being in a constant state of rebellion and never really being at peace.

Edited January 20, 2018 by Sabio

[szilard]

Before the Consolidation, after that we get a sort of idyllic picture about them.

 

Anyway, thanks for your reply; no wonder that we don't talk about this topic because it looks like nobody cares about it.

[solarz]

Actually, it's an interesting topic.

 

The Seanchan are modeled after Imperial China, albeit a much more stylized version of it. Although constant rebellion would be an exaggeration, it is true that some Chinese dynasties experienced frequent rebellion. Most Chinese dynasties were far more concerned about internal security than external threats.

 

The Seanchan empire encompassing an entire continent and having lasted over 1000 years could very well explain the constant rebellions. No Chinese dynasties has ever lasted more than a few hundred years. Of course, Imperial China didn't have damanes and a Crystal Throne. :)

 

We don't really know how big Marendalar was, or what size its population was. We also don't know if the rebellion was a guerilla affair or a conventional war. We do know tha slavery is widely practiced in Seanchan. It would not have been beyond them to turn the entire population of an island into property, but it's also possible that Marendalar had a much bigger population, and only a fraction of it, perhaps cities that supported the rebellion, were made property.

 

Either way, the statement shows that Seanchan was a massive empire, much bigger than all of Randland combined. In TGH, during one of Rand's alternate-life visions, it's shown clearly that without Rand, the Seanchan would roflstomp the entire Westland. The thing that really impressed me was the fact that despite all their power and might, the Seanchan could not stand up to the Shadow. It truly showed how dangerous the Shadowspawn were, and how precarious mankind's position was.

[Sabio]

I think the Last Battle showed why the Seanchan would lose agaist the shadow, maybe if it was simply army vs army slugging it out and casting.  But they were totally defenseless against compulsion, going to the dreamworld and tempering with minds, etc.  

[solarz]

19 minutes ago, Sabio said:

I think the Last Battle showed why the Seanchan would lose agaist the shadow, maybe if it was simply army vs army slugging it out and casting.  But they were totally defenseless against compulsion, going to the dreamworld and tempering with minds, etc.  

 

Yes, Semirhage was able to single-handedly destroy the Seanchan empire on their home continent by assassinating the entire imperial line except Tuon.

 

Nevertheless, those visions made it clear that even though the Seanchan had huge armies and damanes, the Shadow had countless Trollocs and Myrdraal, and likely more Dreadlords than the Seanchan had damanes.

[szilard]

On 2018. január 22. at 4:54 PM, solarz said:

Actually, it's an interesting topic.

 

Thanks!

On 2018. január 22. at 4:54 PM, solarz said:

The Seanchan are modeled after Imperial China, albeit a much more stylized version of it. Although constant rebellion would be an exaggeration, it is true that some Chinese dynasties experienced frequent rebellion. Most Chinese dynasties were far more concerned about internal security than external threats.

 

The Seanchan empire encompassing an entire continent and having lasted over 1000 years could very well explain the constant rebellions. No Chinese dynasties has ever lasted more than a few hundred years. Of course, Imperial China didn't have damanes and a Crystal Throne. :)

 

 

Another models are Persia and Japan, plus a little Mediterranen sprinkling. I have friend from Iran, who always says that Persia is 2500 years old without a break. And lasting/ruling for 250-300 years long is not an underachievement.

 

On 2018. január 22. at 4:54 PM, solarz said:

We don't really know how big Marendalar was, or what size its population was.

 

Then we should use our imagination, we should use cross-references etc

 

 

They don't make the same mistake twice, so they are not useless against anything, even the armies of DO.

[solarz]

 

13 minutes ago, szilard said:

 

Then we should use our imagination, we should use cross-references etc

 

They don't make the same mistake twice, so they are not useless against anything, even the armies of DO.

 

Unfortunately, sometimes you don't get a second chance.

[Sabio]

Would the Seanchan put up  good fight yes, it is thought the exotics were brought from parallel words to fight shadowspawn after the breaking.  By the time Luthair arrived all shadowspawn had been wiped out.  But they are also use to big armies lining up and channeling,  but we know from one of Rands lives the worlds new rulers were being driven back by the forces of shadow.  Seanchan are good but without Mat they are no match for Dem, fighting through dreams, compulsion, grey men, and more importantly friends of the dark in their own ranks.