Age of Legends Theory (Spoilers within, natch!)

[Talmanes]

I think that looking at the Forsaken we can see not everything was really perfect, and I think Solarz really hit the nail on the head with why it was a Utopia.

 

Most of the Forsaken (barring Ishy) followed the Dark One because of selfish reasons, or because they wanted more power. Human nature still existed and with human nature there's a dark side.

 

One thing that sticks out to me about the 'failing' is it's an Aiel who says it, I don't recall AS ever telling the Aiel they failed. It could have just been because they were so dedicated (literally) to serving the AS that they equated the AS failing as them somehow failing the AS. The world was falling apart and they could do nothing, their whole purpose was pretty much gone, so they felt they had failed.

 

I have to patently disagree with the 'no free will' in WoT, as that's not the case at all. Ta'veren are stated to have less free will than others many times, as they are needed to do something specific that the Pattern needs (and in turn can decrease the free will of people around them) but we never see/hear anything about people not having free will.

 

I'd contend we actually see the opposite for the most part in a variety of ways. False Dragons for one, there are many in history, and they rose and fall despite the Pattern not needing a Dragon (and the only time they could be argued to have the Pattern push them is when Rand was in Falme and Taim random falls off his horse and is captured).

 

Plus the Portal Stone world's, which imply that a basically limitless amount of paralell world's exist, which in my mind follows the idea that when you make a decision, in a way to alternate realities move forward.

 

If no one had free will, wouldn't everyone instantly follow Rand? Why would anyone fight against him when the Pattern needs him to fight the Last Battle? Because people still have free will.

 

Plus (last point I swear) the fact that Balefire exists, and literally erases strings from the Pattern tells us there is free will. Why would the Pattern allow itself to be destroyed if it was controlling everything?

[Orderofolde]

On 7/26/2017 at 5:40 PM, Maedelin said:

Ok, so get this:

 

I've been thinking a lot about the Aiel and their purpose during the Age of Legends.  A group of people who have bound themselves and all (ostensibly) successive generations of their progeny to non-violence and service of the Aes Sedai.  In fact, when the Bore was made and the hole in the Dark One's prison were created, Rand's ancestor said specifically that they failed.  I had always found that odd; what had they failed to do?  How?  Beyond just keeping the Aes Sedai cautious, which you can tell people to be careful as much as you'd like, but I can't imagine that the Aes Sedai would always listen.

 

A few days ago, I finally read River of Souls. (My opinion on that can be saved for another day.) Within Bao (Demandred) describes how he was trained to assumed The Oneness.  Within this description, it was reported that Barid Bel Medar learned to get The Oneness being dragged on a sled in snow, and with a coal pressed to his skin.  Regardless of the quality of healing in that time, neither of these practices sound like the practices of an advanced society.  That revelation, combined with the Aiel, and the last few books that kept discussing how Lews Therin was so arrogant led me to an interesting conclusion.

 

So!  My theory is this: The Age of Legends wasn't as utopian as it is described.  It was actually a society built on overbearing pride, status-driven social climbers, and a callous regard of their society as a whole.  In fact, it mirrors a little what the Dark One had in mind for the world.  Remember what people did to Charn on the eve of the end of the War of Power?  All they feared was the Ogier coming after them.

 

Perhaps the Dark One was influencing society more subtly than anyone would have imagined, enticed Mierin Eronaile (Lanfear/Cyndane) and Beidomon to unwittingly drilled a hole into the prison of the Dark One.  Due to this dystopian society that had a utopian sheen to it, the Aiel were indeed the only people who held to a true path on the Light.

 

What do you all think of this?  I'd love to hear points and counter-points!

The Aiel were secret guardians of the knowledge that the Dark One existed and through their non-violence hoped to continue to influence the world to be a better place and to keep the DO at bay.  When the bore was drilled they knew they had failed.  

 

In all seriousness, the AOL is sort of like a Hunger Games Utopia.  The wealthy and privileged wined and dined and worked at their own uses of the OP or using the tech powered by the OP to do their own thing.  There were lavish cities and gardens and Graendal is a perfect example of the indulgence, LTT a good example of the arrogance and superior thinking.  Those people didn't really give much thought to all the others, those who supported that society by making the wine and tending the fields.  Then again go sing a song and watch a Greenman dance and you have all the food you need in one go that just has to be harvested. 

 

The Forsaken were off doing their little experiments on people's minds or other experiments creating the precursors of the Trollocs and all the shadow's creatures, so there was a lot of shady stuff going on behind the scenes done against the less fortunate.  If you got caught or exposed and became an embarrassment, then you were forced to use a binding rod to swear on that you wouldn't do that stuff any more.  The Aes Sedai were servants of the people, they healed the sick, improved roads and made bridges out of Heartstone, and were up to all kinds of things.  Even as great as the US or the UK and other "modern" powers are in being an overall good society, there is deviance and there is poverty and people going missing all the time.  That is part of the balance.  

 

[Sabio]

Most of Aginor's experiments involved plants but on a few occasions he was discovered to be working on animals. Once he went to the DO he knew he needed human stock.  They busted him a few times and had he of been using humans he probably would of been binded immedietly.  Graendal also when with the light was against indulgence, it was said after she went to the DO she became the exact opposite of what she had been, denying herself nothing.  It wasn't that they didn't give much thought, but I would say they blinded themselves that life was perfect.  It was more of arrogance that they made the perfect society.  Sort of a mindset that everyone was happy with their place in life.  There wasn't a lot of starvation, poverty, homelessness so to them why shouldn't people be happy?  If most your basic needs are taken care of, why shouldn't you be happy?  They cared about the people but convinced themselves it was paradise.  

[TheSociopath]

This is carrying the thread back to a discussion of how the AoL worked, governmentally, but in one of the later books when one of the Forsaken is thinking about Demandred, ("'almost' and 'not quite' where the story of his life") he has a line that goes something like

"he was born one day after Lews Therin, who became the Dragon" 

Regardless of the actual quotation, significance is put on the fact that Demandred was born one day later in regards to becoming the Dragon. 

 

I think that this implies that LTT inherited his position to an extent, which would raise some questions about how the AoL worked