Sailor Moon Mafia [Advanced] Game Thread

[Fredwood]

 

 

 

Ok I'll go into the bad and try to stop myself from getting too wally.

 

I'll state the obvious... Scruff bad, but I did lol at him trying to throw Shade at MrsC for pressuring him.  Either just him not paying attention or trying a derpclear, dunno, it's NAI I think but it made me laugh.

 

The rest: Cuth, Coward, Ironeyes, Darthe, are all a big bowl of soup that's swirling around. I won't say null because I have a few thoughts and order of preference there but nothing major.

 

Ok so, Bop v Zander.  This has been a rollercoaster with a merry go-round.

 

Bop has at confessed to loving to mess with Penny elsewhere, so I did initially read his wolf peek jab as a joke.  Maybe it was a bit of a RT I think it was innocuous enough, that it shouldn't have gotten to the point it did.  I think a lot of Zander's post early in the exchange was manipulative, particularly in the framing of his questions, and his insistence on the answering of said questions even though they would have had very little bearing on his read one way or the other and trying to pass it off like all he was doing was asking simple questions that weren't being answered.  At time I viewed this as V/V Zander W/ Spadesbop V.  I do empathize with Zander here, because I think I've fallen into that trap a little recently where I kind of bulldog on one thing, I'm usually good about, (at least I hope I am) about letting it go before it gets to the point it did.

 

My problem comes up later, and I first noticed it on Bop's read list, which Zander pointed out was easy. Additionally it's been discussed already so I really don't have a ton to weigh in on that, but it did get me paying more attention to Spadesbop's posts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Youve only played 3 games you said, have you read any others?

 

Who have you played with before that are currently in this game and what alignments have you seen these people play?

 

• Cordyx-  You feel confident that you know Cory's Town game?  You dont think he could do the Bolded as Scum!Cory?  So Im guessing your read on them is Null to slightly Town?
• Describe what you think Eld's Town and Scum games look like for me please?  I wanna see where youre trying to draw your baseline from.
• I tunnel as both alignments so thats Null.  Cory asked me to give you some space so I will for now.  Ill leave my issues to the side for now and just move forward and will see if I need to go back and pursue or drop that particular issue.  

Gonna wait till you answer my top questions first I suppose before i go into too many reads list questions my dear.

 

I haven't spectated or read any games I wasn't in (I did answer this question earlier)

 

I've played with Bop and Cory in a Hydra game (Cory subbed out of that game after D1) Both of them were V. Last game I played had Eldrick and Darthe in it. Eldrick was V, Darthe was W.

 

I do not feel confident about Cory, but I have a decent idea just from what I've seen/heard about his play. Bop is also experience with him so I have a second perspective point. With him asking you to back off and generally keeping things light, it feels very similar to his Hydra game. It will take some time, though. I also added that he's a very experience player, and he told me himself he didn't mind playing wolf and had no problems with faking villager in that role.

 

I've only seen Eldrick as town, and with that he was just so all over the place. He made points that didn't seem logical (some did but most had me scratching my head all game). I have no idea what his wolf game would look like, but right now I'm getting very lack luster content from him. It could be that it's early and nobody has pinged him yet, but as of right now I am weary that he's not standing out more.

 

I have never played with you, and as much as I would like to trust your word/others, I have to follow your actions. Everyone else is town reading you, but I can't just lock you clear because you're following your meta. Understand I am skeptical of literally everyone but Linz. 

 

 

I dunno man some of your reads dont make much sense then with your responses here.  Like theyre based on having a fair bot of exp/Meta and a decent baseline to formulate these from.  Like there assumptive but without the stuff I mentioned it dont seem to add as on organic read to me.  Im also pretty high so maybe its just me?!?!?!!?

 

lololololol

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nothing I say is ever good enough for you, I can't be anything but myself. 

 

Do what you gotta do~

 

 

 

 

There was 3 posts the Spades half of the hydra gave me a little concern.  First Zander is pushing on a separate issue other then the won that dominated the discussion.  Part of me likes the confidence, but at the very best Zander is a discredited townie at this point, so I'm pretty sure even scum would be fine with being dismissive with him at this point.  I think it's a little unfair to kind of lump his push here with his faulty push earlier especially when I feel he's trying to be more careful in his questioning this time and is trying to avoid confbias. However Spades finally did address it later, for whatever that is worth.

 

The second post is just a less demonstrative version of that post where she basically pushes all the issues of the fight back on him.  It's just more of the same really, so I won't bother quoting it, plus it's hard to quote.

 

The 3rd isn't really a post it's a number of posts, specifically regarding her Darthe read.  She said that he wasn't providing a new point of view and hadn't said anything that stuck out to her, which feels like a bit of an undercut. Couple that with the fact that the majority of her reads and explanations of her stances rely on the constant mentioning of her experience, both overall and from a meta perspective, and as a result is reluctant to take a hard stance on a number of people, so I don't want to say double standard because it seems rude, and it may not be intentional on her part anyway, it was just something I thought I should mention.

 

HOWEVER

 

Imma about to say some nice things about her because I spent a lot of time on 3 posts.  Maybe I'm the naive one now, but I have a hard time seeing a newplayer scum!Spades would be top poster making a lot of content, and making her fair share of contribution to the game if she is scum.  Being in a Hydra, and in a Mafia may mitigate that, but there's still a lot of what feels like unsupervised posting on her part. And the majority of it has been fine, I like in her reads that she's specifically mentioning games to try and establish a meta for players, and is leaving breadcrumbs for people if they want to check up on her statements.  Granted a lot of her participation is because she's friends with a lot of people in the thread, but I do think she's provided a ton of actual analyzable content.  It's just that I had a few pings from the slot so I can't put them green or in my delicious Nullread Stew.

 

 

 

I guess I want to clarify because I meant to put analysis here about the interactions, so it was less about the pings and more about what I think flips will mean. I'd like to hear thoughts on where I'm at.

 

My gut is that a wolf flip from Darthe would clear SpadesBop and vice versa...I'm shaky on this assumption, but again, this is my gut talking, so I can't really express my feels yet.

 

Obviously a Zander flip would clear them and vice versa.  I think this is really the only flip based info we have in the thread at this point, which is why I kind of spent so much time on it.

 

On the miniscule chance that Sooh could be scum, I don't think a Sooh flip would clear Spadesbop, that interaction could be very well staged.

 

I'm not pushing for a lynch on any of these parties today because 1st I'm not really sure if there's an order of priority yet for any of them, and while there's been a lot of content from all 4 slots, there hasn't been enough for me to confidently say oh yeah I want to lynch X over Y.

 

talk about how darthe flip would clear me and vice versa.

 

i dont follow why you come to that conclusion

 

ugh have to type this again...forum ate my post.

 

It clears spades IMO, you just get lucky enough to be drug along with it.

 

My opinion is that her read or push on Darthe is not one She would be taking in a scenario where they're both wolf.  She's attacking him about something where I feel she's a little weak herself.  Additionally I think if it is distancing, it's dangerous for the team as spew, because it's too obvious and a bit generic.  Furthermore the undercutting isn't a really optimal thing to put on a teammate, it's hard to defend against, so imo, it's a sub-optimal move to make if you're W/W..

[Fredwood]

 

 

 

Ok I'll go into the bad and try to stop myself from getting too wally.

 

I'll state the obvious... Scruff bad, but I did lol at him trying to throw Shade at MrsC for pressuring him.  Either just him not paying attention or trying a derpclear, dunno, it's NAI I think but it made me laugh.

 

The rest: Cuth, Coward, Ironeyes, Darthe, are all a big bowl of soup that's swirling around. I won't say null because I have a few thoughts and order of preference there but nothing major.

 

Ok so, Bop v Zander.  This has been a rollercoaster with a merry go-round.

 

Bop has at confessed to loving to mess with Penny elsewhere, so I did initially read his wolf peek jab as a joke.  Maybe it was a bit of a RT I think it was innocuous enough, that it shouldn't have gotten to the point it did.  I think a lot of Zander's post early in the exchange was manipulative, particularly in the framing of his questions, and his insistence on the answering of said questions even though they would have had very little bearing on his read one way or the other and trying to pass it off like all he was doing was asking simple questions that weren't being answered.  At time I viewed this as V/V Zander W/ Spadesbop V.  I do empathize with Zander here, because I think I've fallen into that trap a little recently where I kind of bulldog on one thing, I'm usually good about, (at least I hope I am) about letting it go before it gets to the point it did.

 

My problem comes up later, and I first noticed it on Bop's read list, which Zander pointed out was easy. Additionally it's been discussed already so I really don't have a ton to weigh in on that, but it did get me paying more attention to Spadesbop's posts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Youve only played 3 games you said, have you read any others?

 

Who have you played with before that are currently in this game and what alignments have you seen these people play?

 

• Cordyx-  You feel confident that you know Cory's Town game?  You dont think he could do the Bolded as Scum!Cory?  So Im guessing your read on them is Null to slightly Town?
• Describe what you think Eld's Town and Scum games look like for me please?  I wanna see where youre trying to draw your baseline from.
• I tunnel as both alignments so thats Null.  Cory asked me to give you some space so I will for now.  Ill leave my issues to the side for now and just move forward and will see if I need to go back and pursue or drop that particular issue.  

Gonna wait till you answer my top questions first I suppose before i go into too many reads list questions my dear.

 

I haven't spectated or read any games I wasn't in (I did answer this question earlier)

 

I've played with Bop and Cory in a Hydra game (Cory subbed out of that game after D1) Both of them were V. Last game I played had Eldrick and Darthe in it. Eldrick was V, Darthe was W.

 

I do not feel confident about Cory, but I have a decent idea just from what I've seen/heard about his play. Bop is also experience with him so I have a second perspective point. With him asking you to back off and generally keeping things light, it feels very similar to his Hydra game. It will take some time, though. I also added that he's a very experience player, and he told me himself he didn't mind playing wolf and had no problems with faking villager in that role.

 

I've only seen Eldrick as town, and with that he was just so all over the place. He made points that didn't seem logical (some did but most had me scratching my head all game). I have no idea what his wolf game would look like, but right now I'm getting very lack luster content from him. It could be that it's early and nobody has pinged him yet, but as of right now I am weary that he's not standing out more.

 

I have never played with you, and as much as I would like to trust your word/others, I have to follow your actions. Everyone else is town reading you, but I can't just lock you clear because you're following your meta. Understand I am skeptical of literally everyone but Linz. 

 

 

I dunno man some of your reads dont make much sense then with your responses here.  Like theyre based on having a fair bot of exp/Meta and a decent baseline to formulate these from.  Like there assumptive but without the stuff I mentioned it dont seem to add as on organic read to me.  Im also pretty high so maybe its just me?!?!?!!?

 

lololololol

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nothing I say is ever good enough for you, I can't be anything but myself. 

 

Do what you gotta do~

 

 

 

 

There was 3 posts the Spades half of the hydra gave me a little concern.  First Zander is pushing on a separate issue other then the won that dominated the discussion.  Part of me likes the confidence, but at the very best Zander is a discredited townie at this point, so I'm pretty sure even scum would be fine with being dismissive with him at this point.  I think it's a little unfair to kind of lump his push here with his faulty push earlier especially when I feel he's trying to be more careful in his questioning this time and is trying to avoid confbias. However Spades finally did address it later, for whatever that is worth.

 

The second post is just a less demonstrative version of that post where she basically pushes all the issues of the fight back on him.  It's just more of the same really, so I won't bother quoting it, plus it's hard to quote.

 

The 3rd isn't really a post it's a number of posts, specifically regarding her Darthe read.  She said that he wasn't providing a new point of view and hadn't said anything that stuck out to her, which feels like a bit of an undercut. Couple that with the fact that the majority of her reads and explanations of her stances rely on the constant mentioning of her experience, both overall and from a meta perspective, and as a result is reluctant to take a hard stance on a number of people, so I don't want to say double standard because it seems rude, and it may not be intentional on her part anyway, it was just something I thought I should mention.

 

HOWEVER

 

Imma about to say some nice things about her because I spent a lot of time on 3 posts.  Maybe I'm the naive one now, but I have a hard time seeing a newplayer scum!Spades would be top poster making a lot of content, and making her fair share of contribution to the game if she is scum.  Being in a Hydra, and in a Mafia may mitigate that, but there's still a lot of what feels like unsupervised posting on her part. And the majority of it has been fine, I like in her reads that she's specifically mentioning games to try and establish a meta for players, and is leaving breadcrumbs for people if they want to check up on her statements.  Granted a lot of her participation is because she's friends with a lot of people in the thread, but I do think she's provided a ton of actual analyzable content.  It's just that I had a few pings from the slot so I can't put them green or in my delicious Nullread Stew.

 

 

 

I guess I want to clarify because I meant to put analysis here about the interactions, so it was less about the pings and more about what I think flips will mean. I'd like to hear thoughts on where I'm at.

 

My gut is that a wolf flip from Darthe would clear SpadesBop and vice versa...I'm shaky on this assumption, but again, this is my gut talking, so I can't really express my feels yet.

 

Obviously a Zander flip would clear them and vice versa.  I think this is really the only flip based info we have in the thread at this point, which is why I kind of spent so much time on it.

 

On the miniscule chance that Sooh could be scum, I don't think a Sooh flip would clear Spadesbop, that interaction could be very well staged.

 

I'm not pushing for a lynch on any of these parties today because 1st I'm not really sure if there's an order of priority yet for any of them, and while there's been a lot of content from all 4 slots, there hasn't been enough for me to confidently say oh yeah I want to lynch X over Y.

 

talk about how darthe flip would clear me and vice versa.

 

i dont follow why you come to that conclusion

 

ugh have to type this again...forum ate my post.

 

It clears spades IMO, you just get lucky enough to be drug along with it.

 

My opinion is that her read or push on Darthe is not one She would be taking in a scenario where they're both wolf.  She's attacking him about something where I feel she's a little weak herself.  Additionally I think if it is distancing, it's dangerous for the team as spew, because it's too obvious and a bit generic.  Furthermore the undercutting isn't a really optimal thing to put on a teammate, it's hard to defend against, so imo, it's a sub-optimal move to make if you're W/W..

[Fleeing Coward]

 

So matching numbers with names, the scum team is therefore exactly Sooh, Linz and Derf as upon further inspection, no. 11 is lock town.

 

this is a spicy meatball

 

RNGesus is never wrong. Except when it is.

[Fredwood]

lol...guess I wasn't the only one who had problem with the forum

[Fleeing Coward]

Also if a post takes forever to load..dont resend it. It will post, and your duplicate will too.

Too late :p

[Spadeszee]

I'm more confused about the Zander part if I'm honest. I genuinely believe he's town but very stuck. I also don't advocate in killing to try to clear people because you really can't ever know. Unless you're trying to find the lynchees alignment.

 

While I don't understand how we're related with Darthe at all, it's more that my read on Darthe and eldrick is very similar so him picking Darthe but not Eldrick stands out.

 

Thoroughly confused.

[Eldrick4221]

 

Also if a post takes forever to load..dont resend it. It will post, and your duplicate will too.

Too late :p

I tried :P

[Spadeszee]

I even refreshed xD

[bopolis]

[Fredwood]

:v I'm confused as to how the flipping part works.

 

I'm pretty sure Zander is town but really stuck. If we get voted and we flip town, Zander is still probably town.

 

And I'm also confused about Darthe being related to us at all xD

 

You were starting to make sense but that last bit has me very confused.

 

I've said basically the same about Eldrick as I have about Darthe, so if he's town to you we must be wolfs,right?

No, it could very well be V/V

 

Specifically if one of that group flips wolf.  It's not really a call to actually lynch anyone in that, because like I said, there hasn't been an overwhelming reason to lynch one of you 3.  Also, I don't think any of you 3 are good day 1 lynch candidates, a lot of content from all 3 slots, so at the very least there will be more chances to catch or clear each of you.  It's just the connections I made in my head for down the road.

[Eldrick4221]

I'm more confused about the Zander part if I'm honest. I genuinely believe he's town but very stuck. I also don't advocate in killing to try to clear people because you really can't ever know. Unless you're trying to find the lynchees alignment.

 

While I don't understand how we're related with Darthe at all, it's more that my read on Darthe and eldrick is very similar so him picking Darthe but not Eldrick stands out.

 

Thoroughly confused.

I'm not sure he's town, and that worries me. The big way to tell the difference between town!zand and scum!zand is if his reasons to tunnel make sense.

 

And his push on bop doesn't.

[Eldrick4221]

lol...guess I wasn't the only one who had problem with the forum

Commonly referred to as cloudflare. (The name of the hosting that the site runs through)

 

Lesson learned tho, eh?

[Zander?]

Eldrick name the reasons you think Im pushing Sbop

[Spadeszee]

 

:v I'm confused as to how the flipping part works.

 

I'm pretty sure Zander is town but really stuck. If we get voted and we flip town, Zander is still probably town.

 

And I'm also confused about Darthe being related to us at all xD

 

You were starting to make sense but that last bit has me very confused.

 

I've said basically the same about Eldrick as I have about Darthe, so if he's town to you we must be wolfs,right?

No, it could very well be V/V

 

Specifically if one of that group flips wolf. It's not really a call to actually lynch anyone in that, because like I said, there hasn't been an overwhelming reason to lynch one of you 3. Also, I don't think any of you 3 are good day 1 lynch candidates, a lot of content from all 3 slots, so at the very least there will be more chances to catch or clear each of you. It's just the connections I made in my head for down the road.

Can you bring up when I've specifically "pushed" Darthe?

 

I can't really read him, and have stated this basically every post I've made about him. He's in my neutral pile for a reason.

 

Also, look at what I've said about eldrick and compare to Darthe, if I pushed Darthe I pushed Eldrick too.

 

I'm trying to understand what you're getting at Herr because I feel like through reading so many pages you've mixed something up.

[Fredwood]

I'm more confused about the Zander part if I'm honest. I genuinely believe he's town but very stuck. I also don't advocate in killing to try to clear people because you really can't ever know. Unless you're trying to find the lynchees alignment.

 

While I don't understand how we're related with Darthe at all, it's more that my read on Darthe and eldrick is very similar so him picking Darthe but not Eldrick stands out.

 

Thoroughly confused.

 

 

I thought your Eldrick read was a little more fair, and was a bit more specific in some of the concern. So I didn't make the association, i very well may be stretching on the Darthe/Spade connection, but I am prone to stretching.

 

Also, I think you're getting too hung up on it looking bad for you if someone flips town, because that's not what I'm saying, I'm saying I don't think you're on a team with either Zander or Darthe

[Fredwood]

 

 

:v I'm confused as to how the flipping part works.

 

I'm pretty sure Zander is town but really stuck. If we get voted and we flip town, Zander is still probably town.

 

And I'm also confused about Darthe being related to us at all xD

 

You were starting to make sense but that last bit has me very confused.

 

I've said basically the same about Eldrick as I have about Darthe, so if he's town to you we must be wolfs,right?

No, it could very well be V/V

 

Specifically if one of that group flips wolf. It's not really a call to actually lynch anyone in that, because like I said, there hasn't been an overwhelming reason to lynch one of you 3. Also, I don't think any of you 3 are good day 1 lynch candidates, a lot of content from all 3 slots, so at the very least there will be more chances to catch or clear each of you. It's just the connections I made in my head for down the road.

Can you bring up when I've specifically "pushed" Darthe?

 

I can't really read him, and have stated this basically every post I've made about him. He's in my neutral pile for a reason.

 

Also, look at what I've said about eldrick and compare to Darthe, if I pushed Darthe I pushed Eldrick too.

 

I'm trying to understand what you're getting at Herr because I feel like through reading so many pages you've mixed something up.

 

It wasn't a push, if I said that I apologize, it's not listed in this quote string,  it was in your reads, and it was discussed a little later, I think with Cory or something, when someone specifically mentioned Darthe.  

 

I understand you're reading him neutral, but you're undercutting him while doing it, saying he's not "wowing you" (paraphrasing it), to me it's not an optimal way to distance or put out there on your teammate because it's hard to defend against  

 

In the end I think there's just as good a chance of all three of you being Villa as there is a wolf among you, but I'm saying now, if there is one, it looks better for the others that I listed.

[Spadeszee]

 

I'm more confused about the Zander part if I'm honest. I genuinely believe he's town but very stuck. I also don't advocate in killing to try to clear people because you really can't ever know. Unless you're trying to find the lynchees alignment.

 

While I don't understand how we're related with Darthe at all, it's more that my read on Darthe and eldrick is very similar so him picking Darthe but not Eldrick stands out.

 

Thoroughly confused.

 

I thought your Eldrick read was a little more fair, and was a bit more specific in some of the concern. So I didn't make the association, i very well may be stretching on the Darthe/Spade connection, but I am prone to stretching.

 

Also, I think you're getting too hung up on it looking bad for you if someone flips town, because that's not what I'm saying, I'm saying I don't think you're on a team with either Zander or Darthe

Eldricks was very active in the game I was in so I'm a little more confident about reading him. Darthe fell off after D1 so until he does that, I have nothing to go on.

 

I'm not at a point where I can even start imagining what flips mean. In my book, you mislynch a villager all you learned is that you messed up and you're one step close to losing the game.

 

I honestly feel like you're trying to manipulate something here.

 

While I appreciate someone who writes a fair amount, a lot of what your post have said (up until you talking about flips), was a lot of words to say very little.

[Eldrick4221]

Eldrick name the reasons you think Im pushing Sbop

All I can see is that you pursued asking him if he knew if penny subbed out as scum. But because this has no bearing on the game being she subbed out before the game started, I don't understand the reason for this.

 

You said there was something else about his posts you didn't like, but I'm blanking on what it was. I actually wanted to ask you for example of it.

[csarmi]

ITT: people being stuck by the daily double post bug. Welcome to DM.

 

(and by daily I mean: it tends to happen every day at the same time, I suppose it's morning in the US or smth)

[Eldrick4221]

ITT: people being stuck by the daily double post bug. Welcome to DM.

 

(and by daily I mean: it tends to happen every day at the same time, I suppose it's morning in the US or smth)

Happens ~2am here

[Eldrick4221]

I can kinda see you equating his refusal to answer your questions as scummy, but if that's the case, id also say not a valid reason for a push.

[Spadeszee]

 

I'm more confused about the Zander part if I'm honest. I genuinely believe he's town but very stuck. I also don't advocate in killing to try to clear people because you really can't ever know. Unless you're trying to find the lynchees alignment.

 

While I don't understand how we're related with Darthe at all, it's more that my read on Darthe and eldrick is very similar so him picking Darthe but not Eldrick stands out.

 

Thoroughly confused.

I'm not sure he's town, and that worries me. The big way to tell the difference between town!zand and scum!zand is if his reasons to tunnel make sense.

 

And his push on bop doesn't.

The thing is, I don't think it's W/W between Zander/Cory-Chris.

 

While Zanders tunneling is extremely unproductive, I think he honestly though (thinks) he's onto something.

[Fredwood]

lol ok, I never said I wanted to lynch someone to clear someone else. I said if one is a wolf then it looks good for the other.  If you think that's manipulative that's fine, because I don't want to lynch any of you 3 right now.  if you think I haven't said something with my posts, that seems to be a fallback for you on a lot of people, so I'm not really bothered by it, I've stated several specific reasons for my reads and reaction, and I may very well be wrong the Darthe/Spade not being on a team together, but it was my initial reaction to it.  I didn't bring up Eldrick, you did, so I'm not sure why you keep mentioning him as a comparison point, if I had a problem with your Eldrick read I would have said something.  TBF, I don't really have a problem with your Darthe read (aside from the read possibly being true of yourself), but I don't think it's a read a teammate puts another teammate.

[Eldrick4221]

Mind telling me why you think the slot is scummy? Why were you going after them so hard?

 

I appreciate that you said you'd step back from that, and don't want to pull you back in. I just want to understand where ypur head is at.

[Zander?]

 

Eldrick name the reasons you think Im pushing Sbop

All I can see is that you pursued asking him if he knew if penny subbed out as scum. But because this has no bearing on the game being she subbed out before the game started, I don't understand the reason for this.

 

You said there was something else about his posts you didn't like, but I'm blanking on what it was. I actually wanted to ask you for example of it.

 

 

For someone who claims to be trying to figure me out, this shows the fact youre not man. 

 

Youve like at least 3-4 posts saying im not reading Zander Town, Zander you need to show me youre Town and Im not getting what youre saying/pushing yet Ive got like prolly at least 20 posts explaining why I sussed for the original reason. multiple posts explaining other issues ive had with them and youre still like I cant figure out you out Zander....this is why I cant read you Town.

 

ISO me and look if youre a Villager man.