Sailor Moon Mafia [Advanced] Game Thread

[Zander?]

 

 

1) Is there anybody you WOULD like to vote at this point?

2) If you think that I'm easily susceptible to people stroking my ego, you are sadly correct.

 

 

1) Scruffy...is easy, but he's the only one I really don't have something positive to say about. I can literally say something positive about almost anyone else aside from Coward and Cuth, but they also haven't given me any reason to suspect them either.

 

2) You are a very handsome and muscular male.

 

 

Scruffy is a Scum read for Fred.

 

 

 

I guess I want to clarify because I meant to put analysis here about the interactions, so it was less about the pings and more about what I think flips will mean. I'd like to hear thoughts on where I'm at.

 

My gut is that a wolf flip from Darthe would clear SpadesBop and vice versa...I'm shaky on this assumption, but again, this is my gut talking, so I can't really express my feels yet.

 

Obviously a Zander flip would clear them and vice versa.  I think this is really the only flip based info we have in the thread at this point, which is why I kind of spent so much time on it.

 

On the miniscule chance that Sooh could be scum, I don't think a Sooh flip would clear Spadesbop, that interaction could be very well staged.

 

I'm not pushing for a lynch on any of these parties today because 1st I'm not really sure if there's an order of priority yet for any of them, and while there's been a lot of content from all 4 slots, there hasn't been enough for me to confidently say oh yeah I want to lynch X over Y.

 

Starts building and condemning connections/partners.  I find this to be very premature for this especially since Fred was subbing in and had a fair ways to catch up and have seemingly such a solid grip on the game. 

 

Still building that out on Sooh.  Im tinfoiling on a poss w/w distancing...,,,,FML

 

 

 

talk about how darthe flip would clear me and vice versa.

 

i dont follow why you come to that conclusion

 

ugh have to type this again...forum ate my post.

 

It clears spades IMO, you just get lucky enough to be drug along with it.

 

My opinion is that her read or push on Darthe is not one She would be taking in a scenario where they're both wolf.  She's attacking him about something where I feel she's a little weak herself.  Additionally I think if it is distancing, it's dangerous for the team as spew, because it's too obvious and a bit generic.  Furthermore the undercutting isn't a really optimal thing to put on a teammate, it's hard to defend against, so imo, it's a sub-optimal move to make if you're W/W..

 

 

Like these connections are more suggestive in the sense that he just saying its a sub-optimal is more a personal opinion but it seems like he's not taking any Meta into account.  It just feels like using a narrative to fit his need as opposed to it being organic.

 

 

 

 

I'm more confused about the Zander part if I'm honest. I genuinely believe he's town but very stuck. I also don't advocate in killing to try to clear people because you really can't ever know. Unless you're trying to find the lynchees alignment.

 

While I don't understand how we're related with Darthe at all, it's more that my read on Darthe and eldrick is very similar so him picking Darthe but not Eldrick stands out.

 

Thoroughly confused.

 

 

I thought your Eldrick read was a little more fair, and was a bit more specific in some of the concern. So I didn't make the association, i very well may be stretching on the Darthe/Spade connection, but I am prone to stretching.

 

Also, I think you're getting too hung up on it looking bad for you if someone flips town, because that's not what I'm saying, I'm saying I don't think you're on a team with either Zander or Darthe

 

 

Another leaving an out type comment.

[Zander?]

 

 

 

 

Above and in Purple- Then drops a slight push on SBop while still leaving her in the Nulls.  A lot of his reads, read to me as "pull in case of emergency" to fit any narrative Fred wants or needs to.

 

Ugh... It wouldn't let me type. Anyways mostly saving this for future reference to see if I agree/disagree once I get around to ISO-ing Fred.

 

 

I dont know. I mean I know I dont have any Meta on Fred but Im seeing a SHIT TON of these types of posts at least imho.

[Fredwood]

 

Ok caught up, first to the good.

 

Sooh and Eldrick, unless there's a mechanical reason to doubt them, I'm not voting for them during this game.

 

Sooh: Oddly enough for her interaction with my slot.  Zara dumb, and did dumb thing.  I think Clov did a decent job of analyzing this when he weighed in on it.  And since I'm town, I  know the Zara post was a joke, and that I am in fact not that claim.  I'd like to add to the Clov post, I can quote it if need be but essentially he breaks down the 3 possibilities.  I think it being a Mafia safe claim isn't likely, because as what has been inferred by people more familiar with the source material, and just my educated guesses from the style of the nomenclature, that it being a safe claim for Mafia to me is unlikely.  For all these reasons, it's a half derp I like Sooh.  There is a minor concern, but it's more of a meta of her meta reads based on 1 game of experience.  Her tone is all over the place, but consistent with the players she's interacting with.

 

Eldrick...exclusively for his pushing on both sides of Scruffy.  I know one can be OMGUS, but he also challenged Darthe when he was challenging someone for their vote on Scruffy. The interaction felt very townie for me...(Again Clov pointed this out before I had to chance to bring it up...fking catch up)  I don't know, I just really like that interaction and his other content has been good for me, not necessarily from a solving standpoint but from a townie standpoint.  He's pressuring (Examples when he voted Iron and pulled on Darthe) and pulled back when they responded to him, and pressured and maintained it (ex: Scruff) when they didn't.  

 

If I knew how to iso and easily find the post I was looking for, I'll give another specific example though.  

 

Sooh was being questioned by Spades for taking a neutral to friendly tone with Scruff and trying to get him to respond to questions instead of hard pressuring him for his vote on Eldrick. After some discussion Eldrick pointed out how he felt his questioning was neutral of Scruffy as well, and how Scruffy's response seemed unnecessarily gruff. I felt his questioning of Scruffy's vote was indeed fair and neutral (perhaps not as sweet as Sooh), and it was a fair criticism and genuinely felt like frustration at being blown off. Dunno, that's just a strong read. If either of you are scum good on ya.

 

I'll also throw Clov (and I guess Cory cus they hydra but specifically Chris is getting the credit) up here, but as what you would call a light green. I don't think I'll vote for them this game either.  I hate to really go into too much detail cus pocketing, and there is no way to prove that I didn't have these same thoughts before I read where he expressed the same thoughts.

 

I'll stop here and catch up and post more thoughts and stuff...obviously Mrs Clovx goes up here as well.

 

Sooh and are people he NEVER WANTS to VOTE THEM barring mechanical.  This is fairly early into the game for that strong of a read, especially when he has a reason/leaves an out on his Soohray. (see Red Bold)

 

Orange- Fred can you show me these quotes and explain out your thought process with each please?

 

Others colors are his reads which Im trying to follow his progression on them.

 

 

 

Ok I'll go into the bad and try to stop myself from getting too wally.

 

I'll state the obvious... Scruff bad, but I did lol at him trying to throw Shade at MrsC for pressuring him.  Either just him not paying attention or trying a derpclear, dunno, it's NAI I think but it made me laugh.

 

The rest: Cuth, Coward, Ironeyes, Darthe, are all a big bowl of soup that's swirling around. I won't say null because I have a few thoughts and order of preference there but nothing major.

 

Ok so, Bop v Zander.  This has been a rollercoaster with a merry go-round.

 

Bop has at confessed to loving to mess with Penny elsewhere, so I did initially read his wolf peek jab as a joke.  Maybe it was a bit of a RT I think it was innocuous enough, that it shouldn't have gotten to the point it did.  I think a lot of Zander's post early in the exchange was manipulative, particularly in the framing of his questions, and his insistence on the answering of said questions even though they would have had very little bearing on his read one way or the other and trying to pass it off like all he was doing was asking simple questions that weren't being answered.  At time I viewed this as V/V Zander W/ Spadesbop V.  I do empathize with Zander here, because I think I've fallen into that trap a little recently where I kind of bulldog on one thing, I'm usually good about, (at least I hope I am) about letting it go before it gets to the point it did.

 

My problem comes up later, and I first noticed it on Bop's read list, which Zander pointed out was easy. Additionally it's been discussed already so I really don't have a ton to weigh in on that, but it did get me paying more attention to Spadesbop's posts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Youve only played 3 games you said, have you read any others?

 

Who have you played with before that are currently in this game and what alignments have you seen these people play?

 

• Cordyx-  You feel confident that you know Cory's Town game?  You dont think he could do the Bolded as Scum!Cory?  So Im guessing your read on them is Null to slightly Town?
• Describe what you think Eld's Town and Scum games look like for me please?  I wanna see where youre trying to draw your baseline from.
• I tunnel as both alignments so thats Null.  Cory asked me to give you some space so I will for now.  Ill leave my issues to the side for now and just move forward and will see if I need to go back and pursue or drop that particular issue.  

Gonna wait till you answer my top questions first I suppose before i go into too many reads list questions my dear.

 

I haven't spectated or read any games I wasn't in (I did answer this question earlier)

 

I've played with Bop and Cory in a Hydra game (Cory subbed out of that game after D1) Both of them were V. Last game I played had Eldrick and Darthe in it. Eldrick was V, Darthe was W.

 

I do not feel confident about Cory, but I have a decent idea just from what I've seen/heard about his play. Bop is also experience with him so I have a second perspective point. With him asking you to back off and generally keeping things light, it feels very similar to his Hydra game. It will take some time, though. I also added that he's a very experience player, and he told me himself he didn't mind playing wolf and had no problems with faking villager in that role.

 

I've only seen Eldrick as town, and with that he was just so all over the place. He made points that didn't seem logical (some did but most had me scratching my head all game). I have no idea what his wolf game would look like, but right now I'm getting very lack luster content from him. It could be that it's early and nobody has pinged him yet, but as of right now I am weary that he's not standing out more.

 

I have never played with you, and as much as I would like to trust your word/others, I have to follow your actions. Everyone else is town reading you, but I can't just lock you clear because you're following your meta. Understand I am skeptical of literally everyone but Linz. 

 

 

I dunno man some of your reads dont make much sense then with your responses here.  Like theyre based on having a fair bot of exp/Meta and a decent baseline to formulate these from.  Like there assumptive but without the stuff I mentioned it dont seem to add as on organic read to me.  Im also pretty high so maybe its just me?!?!?!!?

 

lololololol

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nothing I say is ever good enough for you, I can't be anything but myself. 

 

Do what you gotta do~

 

 

 

 

There was 3 posts the Spades half of the hydra gave me a little concern.  First Zander is pushing on a separate issue other then the won that dominated the discussion.  Part of me likes the confidence, but at the very best Zander is a discredited townie at this point, so I'm pretty sure even scum would be fine with being dismissive with him at this point.  I think it's a little unfair to kind of lump his push here with his faulty push earlier especially when I feel he's trying to be more careful in his questioning this time and is trying to avoid confbias. However Spades finally did address it later, for whatever that is worth.

 

The second post is just a less demonstrative version of that post where she basically pushes all the issues of the fight back on him.  It's just more of the same really, so I won't bother quoting it, plus it's hard to quote.

 

The 3rd isn't really a post it's a number of posts, specifically regarding her Darthe read.  She said that he wasn't providing a new point of view and hadn't said anything that stuck out to her, which feels like a bit of an undercut. Couple that with the fact that the majority of her reads and explanations of her stances rely on the constant mentioning of her experience, both overall and from a meta perspective, and as a result is reluctant to take a hard stance on a number of people, so I don't want to say double standard because it seems rude, and it may not be intentional on her part anyway, it was just something I thought I should mention.

 

HOWEVER

 

Imma about to say some nice things about her because I spent a lot of time on 3 posts.  Maybe I'm the naive one now, but I have a hard time seeing a newplayer scum!Spades would be top poster making a lot of content, and making her fair share of contribution to the game if she is scum.  Being in a Hydra, and in a Mafia may mitigate that, but there's still a lot of what feels like unsupervised posting on her part. And the majority of it has been fine, I like in her reads that she's specifically mentioning games to try and establish a meta for players, and is leaving breadcrumbs for people if they want to check up on her statements.  Granted a lot of her participation is because she's friends with a lot of people in the thread, but I do think she's provided a ton of actual analyzable content.  It's just that I had a few pings from the slot so I can't put them green or in my delicious Nullread Stew.

 

Red is a very vague way to drop his thoughts on Scruff.  I find it to be misleading cause it leaves an out to switch the read to Scummy if need be imo.

 

Above and in Purple- Then drops a slight push on SBop while still leaving her in the Nulls.  A lot of his reads, read to me as "pull in case of emergency" to fit any narrative Fred wants or needs to.

 

Blue- I'm manipulative yet its something you do and you empathize, is another fence sitting read/comment imo.

 

 

 

SO your analysis reads as:

 

1 - Fred has too many strong confident reads for so early in the game

2 - Fred doesn't have enough strong and confident reads at this point int the game.

 

Well which am I more scummy for? I'm not really interested in defending myself against both sides of the same argument.

 

Eldrick: I've covered the interaction with Eldrick 3 times already, I'm not going to revisit it.  Search for Scruffingting's vote and read the next few pages. It's there.

 

Sooh: (shrug) pretty clear that I was town reading her hard. I still don't know of situation as it stands where I vote Sooh (If for nothing else that I'll never live that long). If anything I was torpedoing my meta concern as I've only played one game with her.

 

Spadesbot/you: Of course I'm fence setting, there was enough positives to outweigh the negatives and more then enough to justify not lynching either of you day 1.   So I'm not really sure what you're expecting.

 

Either way you're wanting to be confbiased so go ahead and be confbiased and lynch me.  I already said I'd vote myself to expedite the game. However, you're wrong, and I'm town. It won't end the game.

[Cory Caboose]

Fred how did you feel about FC's wolfread on you?

[Fredwood]

I said it wasn't real and it felt more like trying to create a larger suspect list then a genuine push on me, it's in my Night 1 Wall post.

 

I will say independently that Eldrick is more likely the non-mafia in that scenario.   I don't see why Scoobs would obvspew me there though as a teammate, I was slowly creeping up lists at the time, I can't think of a good reason to impede a teammates progress there because I don't see a scenario where Scoobs honestly thinks he's outliving me.  If I was his wolf teammate in that situation I would have been so titled. 

[Cory Caboose]

I guess what I really need to do is find a villager in

 

Cuth
Sooh
Eldrick

Fredwood

 

If anyone's around and strongly feels someone on this list is a villager (besides themselves), I'd appreciate you speaking up & seeing if we can't get somewhere with it

[Cory Caboose]

You find a villager in that list and I am pretty sure you win the game.

I would say Sooh, but need to turn every stone atp

[Fredwood]

I said it wasn't real and it felt more like trying to create a larger suspect list then a genuine push on me, it's in my Night 1 Wall post.

 

I will say independently that Eldrick is more likely the non-mafia in that scenario.   I don't see why Scoobs would obvspew me there though as a teammate, I was slowly creeping up lists at the time, I can't think of a good reason to impede a teammates progress there because I don't see a scenario where Scoobs honestly thinks he's outliving me.  If I was his wolf teammate in that situation I would have been so titled. 

 

I think case in point, Scoobs avoids spewing Marsh, why spew one teammate who is only slightly better off then the other? Strategically it's a bad move, he's not going to elevate Marsh there, he's only dragging down his teammate to the other's level.

[Clovdyx]

I guess what I really need to do is find a villager in

 

Cuth

Sooh

Eldrick

Fredwood

 

If anyone's around and strongly feels someone on this list is a villager (besides themselves), I'd appreciate you speaking up & seeing if we can't get somewhere with it

 

You find a villager in that list and I am pretty sure you win the game.

 

I would say Sooh, but need to turn every stone atp

 

She's the one I've felt the most confident on for the majority of the game.  I am starting to feel a little less confident, but I'm inclined to think the way Fleeing mentioned her to me seemed more likely to be dirt kicking to weaken confidence than shade a teammate so he looks good (especially if he thought he was going down),

 

Though you probably didn't want to hear from me very much.

[Spadeszee]

 

I guess what I really need to do is find a villager in

 

Cuth

Sooh

Eldrick

Fredwood

 

If anyone's around and strongly feels someone on this list is a villager (besides themselves), I'd appreciate you speaking up & seeing if we can't get somewhere with it

 

You find a villager in that list and I am pretty sure you win the game.

 

I would say Sooh, but need to turn every stone atp

 

She's the one I've felt the most confident on for the majority of the game.  I am starting to feel a little less confident, but I'm inclined to think the way Fleeing mentioned her to me seemed more likely to be dirt kicking to weaken confidence than shade a teammate so he looks good (especially if he thought he was going down),

 

Though you probably didn't want to hear from me very much.

 

Others do, though. 

 

I think the only real reason Sooh is dropping off is because shes now in the middle of her trip. She did get tone read villager pretty early on and has remained there, which could be an easy ride for a wolf. I don't really think she has done anything groundbreaking but her vote switch on FC says enough for me to not want to touch her before we look at the other two who voted Scruff and Eldrick.

[Clovdyx]

Well, she's on the middle of her trip, and I have direct interactions or events that make me feel good about other people.  With Cuth, there was an exchange with Fleeing Coward immediately after he entered the game that I thought was really clunky and awkward.  But I don't know that it was clunky and awkward in a way that makes me think they're teammates.

 

Eldrick's claim is questionable to me for reasons, but i also recognize that it's a lot of mirror imaging, and the circumstances around his claim make me believe it.

 

Sooh definitely hasn't done anything that makes me think she is mafia, and she's done a lot to make me think she isn't.

[MrsClov]

This may be gibberish as I try to work out my thoughts. This is mostly unlikely options we haven't considered yet.

 

I think Sooh may need to be reevaluated, eventually.  In my mind, her reaction to Ted coming into the thread and claiming Sailor Venus seemed genuine, and led me to believe that was/is her character. I'm trying to work out in my head how this would still work if she's scum.I guess Ted could have mentioned it in the scum chat so she knew to react or he stole her fake claim so it was actually genuine. It seems like a stretch. 

She originally called out Aquilla/FC for inactivity, which I guess could be done as scum. But why draw attention to a teammate that early? Distancing? 

The vote on FC is kind of leaning towards Null on me now. Could have been a bus attempt since it was kind of obvious that FC was a viable lynch at that point, furthering the previously mentioned distancing. 

It's plausible that she could be scum, but it'd be a lot of what ifs. 

Another possibility that's been crossing my mind is that Eldrick really is the Vig and SpadesBop is scum. Eldrick claims vig, Bop sees it and counter claims as scum and tries to get Eldrick lynched over it. The problem with this is it's obviously easy to confirm once Eldrick's flips. Or Vice Versa, Eldrick claims it as scum to try to call the vig (SpadesBop) out. 

OR Cordyx s scum, let their combined mafia egos free offed their team to get lock clear and are laughing at us all in their scum chat. 

 

[Spadeszee]

This may be gibberish as I try to work out my thoughts. This is mostly unlikely options we haven't considered yet.

 

I think Sooh may need to be reevaluated, eventually.  In my mind, her reaction to Ted coming into the thread and claiming Sailor Venus seemed genuine, and led me to believe that was/is her character. I'm trying to work out in my head how this would still work if she's scum.I guess Ted could have mentioned it in the scum chat so she knew to react or he stole her fake claim so it was actually genuine. It seems like a stretch. 

 

She originally called out Aquilla/FC for inactivity, which I guess could be done as scum. But why draw attention to a teammate that early? Distancing? 

 

The vote on FC is kind of leaning towards Null on me now. Could have been a bus attempt since it was kind of obvious that FC was a viable lynch at that point, furthering the previously mentioned distancing. 

 

It's plausible that she could be scum, but it'd be a lot of what ifs. 

 

Another possibility that's been crossing my mind is that Eldrick really is the Vig and SpadesBop is scum. Eldrick claims vig, Bop sees it and counter claims as scum and tries to get Eldrick lynched over it. The problem with this is it's obviously easy to confirm once Eldrick's flips. Or Vice Versa, Eldrick claims it as scum to try to call the vig (SpadesBop) out. 

 

OR Cordyx s scum, let their combined mafia egos free offed their team to get lock clear and are laughing at us all in their scum chat. 

 

 

O: When did this happen?

[Zander?]

lol ok, I never said I wanted to lynch someone to clear someone else. I said if one is a wolf then it looks good for the other.  If you think that's manipulative that's fine, because I don't want to lynch any of you 3 right now.  if you think I haven't said something with my posts, that seems to be a fallback for you on a lot of people, so I'm not really bothered by it, I've stated several specific reasons for my reads and reaction, and I may very well be wrong the Darthe/Spade not being on a team together, but it was my initial reaction to it.  I didn't bring up Eldrick, you did, so I'm not sure why you keep mentioning him as a comparison point, if I had a problem with your Eldrick read I would have said something.  TBF, I don't really have a problem with your Darthe read (aside from the read possibly being true of yourself), but I don't think it's a read a teammate puts another teammate.

 

slimyusedcarsalesmenwhostrangleshookers.gif

 

 

 

I guess to put it another way, I only have 4 strong reads one way or the other.  The rest I have kind of all lumped together with some difference of suspicion, in that group are Zander, Darthe and Spades Bop.  None of them are lynchable, and I haven't cleared them yet, however, I did specifically mention them because I thought the interaction was interesting, I have some negatives and positives on them all, but need to see more in order to further evaluate, however I do think there is some correlation that leads me to believe that if someone is bad it's a positive for someone else.  Villa flips don't really have anything to do with this assessment because they're not really going to teach us a lot, so there is no reason to think that I'm saying a villa flip is bad for any of the others and advocating the lynch. It's simply a statement of if X is bad then Y isn't.

 

"I only have 4 strong reads one way or the other"

 

iirc these are Linz/Eld/Sooh/Cordyx?!!?!?!?

 

Like at your start you made a weird comment about Clov usually saying everything you were gonna say in advance and I know you brought this up at least once.

 

Then you use a WoT to explain 4 players you've prolly touched on as much or more then anyone else (especially me and SBop) but then just says I have connections/partners depending on how they flip but then say Villa flips don't really do anything.

 

ALl your WoT's really look like busywork posts to maake you look Townt as opposed to them coming across like you're actually trying to figure out each persons ACTUAL alignment.

 

And that's an approach that I associate with  Wolf not a Villager 9 times out of 10.

 

 

 

 

 

 

lol ok, I never said I wanted to lynch someone to clear someone else. I said if one is a wolf then it looks good for the other. If you think that's manipulative that's fine, because I don't want to lynch any of you 3 right now. if you think I haven't said something with my posts, that seems to be a fallback for you on a lot of people, so I'm not really bothered by it, I've stated several specific reasons for my reads and reaction, and I may very well be wrong the Darthe/Spade not being on a team together, but it was my initial reaction to it. I didn't bring up Eldrick, you did, so I'm not sure why you keep mentioning him as a comparison point, if I had a problem with your Eldrick read I would have said something. TBF, I don't really have a problem with your Darthe read (aside from the read possibly being true of yourself), but I don't think it's a read a teammate puts another teammate.

 

 

1. And I said, it was more specific and I didn't have a problem with it, Eldrick to me is a non factor in the way I read your Darthe critique.

 

2. Where did I backpedal?, I'm still under the assumption that it's not very likely that you two could be working together. If Darthe is town or vice versa, it does little to clear or condemn you or him, I'm pretty sure I was consistent in that the interaction only matters if one of you happen to be scum.  I made the caveat at the time of the original post that maybe I was putting too much stock in my analysis of the interaction.

 

3 Attacking me for lack of content is w/e to me, if my content doesn't mean anything to you. Either you think I'm providing content or you don't, it's not worth getting on a merry-go-round about it. It's not provable or easily clarified one way or the other,  It's part of the reason I came up with the correlation in the first place

 

4. I don't see how it's a forced read, I literally pointed out specifically what bothered me about 3 of your posts and the reason for my positive reads on others (I also pointed out specific reasons why I didn't think you were scum as well).  I didn't point anything out  about Darthe's posts because nothing made me scum read him or town read him.

 

5 You're saying I'm forcing reads but glazing over others...either I'm not posting enough reads or I'm forcing them.  Additionally what you're describing you're doing by posting about people I have no strong opinion on is forcing reads. 

 

I mean I could have specifically gone line by line and had about 6 people where I just kind of post a paragraph about shrugging, but I was already walling with my 3 town leans and my scum lean and my analysis of you and Zander, and I didn't really think it necessary to do that when I could have just lumped everyone together and said (need more info).

 

6. I read this too late, but I already committed this much time responding that it feels a shame not to share how annoyingly pedantic I can be.

 

I will say this, 

 

if you had sad 

 

"Darthe: eh, I'd like to see more from him, I'm not really sure what to make of him" fine

 

Instead you basically said.

 

"Darthe: eh, I'm not sure what to make of him, he hasn't really done anything to wow me or provided me with an original viewpoint"

 

One is not the same as the other. The first one, is a valid statement, the second one can also be a valid statement, but is a dangerous thing to say about your teammate, because it puts him in a difficult hole to dig out of. Maybe that will clarify where I'm at.

 

 

 

 

Im gonna color code these responses and copy and paste.

 

SBop is Green

Fred is Red

Zander is blue

 

1 I brought up Eldrick because my read on him is very similar to Darthe.

 

 

1. And I said, it was more specific and I didn't have a problem with it, Eldrick to me is a non factor in the way I read your Darthe critique.

 

1. States her Eldrick read is unimportaant.

 

2 Once I actually asked you specifics about Darthe you back peddled on what you said a lot, which Idk it's just pinging me so hard right now.

 

Maybe I'm reading too hard into you right now and when I get sleep I'll reread all of this, but it feels forced?

 

2. Where did I backpedal?, I'm still under the assumption that it's not very likely that you two could be working together. If Darthe is town or vice versa, it does little to clear or condemn you or him, I'm pretty sure I was consistent in that the interaction only matters if one of you happen to be scum.  I made the caveat at the time of the original post that maybe I was putting too much stock in my analysis of the interaction.

 

2. Says Darthe/SBop not w/w.  His singular focus on associtive reads is intense.  Anyone have any Meta on Fred is normal for him??

 

 

3 If I were at my PC I would be more specific as to pinpointing what doesn't line up and why what you've said doesn't say much to me.

 

 

3 Attacking me for lack of content is w/e to me, if my content doesn't mean anything to you. Either you think I'm providing content or you don't, it's not worth getting on a merry-go-round about it. It's not provable or easily clarified one way or the other,  It's part of the reason I came up with the correlation in the first place

3. Fred sprinkles some AtE, it But I like to see if Spades followed and if if so can you show me and if not can you show us now please?

 

 

4 I'm not one to force a read of I don't have one. I think you glazed over some people in your read list, because you don't have much to say about your neutrals. I tried to give an explanation as to why I read everyone the way I did, even my neutrals.

 

 

4. I don't see how it's a forced read, I literally pointed out specifically what bothered me about 3 of your posts and the reason for my positive reads on others (I also pointed out specific reasons why I didn't think you were scum as well).  I didn't point anything out  about Darthe's posts because nothing made me scum read him or town read him.

 

4. I agree with the forced read part from Spades here tho discuss a tad with the he didnt have a lot to day, he had a lot of WORDS to say such not very much actual CONTENT to them if that makes sense to you.  Like basically using a lot of words to say nothing really.

 

5 I think manipulation was too strong a word to use, I apologize for that, but I'm not understanding how you came to your conclusions and it feels forced.

 

 

5 You're saying I'm forcing reads but glazing over others...either I'm not posting enough reads or I'm forcing them.  Additionally what you're describing you're doing by posting about people I have no strong opinion on is forcing reads. 

 

I mean I could have specifically gone line by line and had about 6 people where I just kind of post a paragraph about shrugging, but I was already walling with my 3 town leans and my scum lean and my analysis of you and Zander, and I didn't really think it necessary to do that when I could have just lumped everyone together and said (need more info).

 

5. I too completely disagree with his use of the word manipulative and felt like that he was trying to lightly shade me tho with no Meta and not knowing me I guess it could come from a Villager (maybe its some bias there too....lol).  But what bothers me is that Fred never really answers or responds to her claim directly or tries to explain why he used it, he just goes off on a rant and seems like he just sidesteps around it.  Will be interesting to see if Spades followed up on this.

 

6 I really want to reevaluate this in the morning when I have a clear head.

 

 

6. I read this too late, but I already committed this much time responding that it feels a shame not to share how annoyingly pedantic I can be.

 

I will say this, 

 

if you had sad 

 

"Darthe: eh, I'd like to see more from him, I'm not really sure what to make of him" fine

 

Instead you basically said.

 

"Darthe: eh, I'm not sure what to make of him, he hasn't really done anything to wow me or provided me with an original viewpoint"

 

One is not the same as the other. The first one, is a valid statement, the second one can also be a valid statement, but is a dangerous thing to say about your teammate, because it puts him in a difficult hole to dig out of. Maybe that will clarify where I'm at.

 

6. WTF ????

SOOOOOO MANY WORD!!!!!

#DIRTYUSEDCARSALESMENFEELZ

A little more AtE???

FML

[MrsClov]

 

This may be gibberish as I try to work out my thoughts. This is mostly unlikely options we haven't considered yet.

 

I think Sooh may need to be reevaluated, eventually.  In my mind, her reaction to Ted coming into the thread and claiming Sailor Venus seemed genuine, and led me to believe that was/is her character. I'm trying to work out in my head how this would still work if she's scum.I guess Ted could have mentioned it in the scum chat so she knew to react or he stole her fake claim so it was actually genuine. It seems like a stretch. 

 

She originally called out Aquilla/FC for inactivity, which I guess could be done as scum. But why draw attention to a teammate that early? Distancing? 

 

The vote on FC is kind of leaning towards Null on me now. Could have been a bus attempt since it was kind of obvious that FC was a viable lynch at that point, furthering the previously mentioned distancing. 

 

It's plausible that she could be scum, but it'd be a lot of what ifs. 

 

Another possibility that's been crossing my mind is that Eldrick really is the Vig and SpadesBop is scum. Eldrick claims vig, Bop sees it and counter claims as scum and tries to get Eldrick lynched over it. The problem with this is it's obviously easy to confirm once Eldrick's flips. Or Vice Versa, Eldrick claims it as scum to try to call the vig (SpadesBop) out. 

 

OR Cordyx s scum, let their combined mafia egos free offed their team to get lock clear and are laughing at us all in their scum chat. 

 

 

O: When did this happen?

 

It's 75% joking. And none of them are really avenues I'm looking to explore with maybe the exception of Eldrick being scum and trying to call the vig out.

[Clovdyx]

This may be gibberish as I try to work out my thoughts. This is mostly unlikely options we haven't considered yet.

 

I think Sooh may need to be reevaluated, eventually.  In my mind, her reaction to Ted coming into the thread and claiming Sailor Venus seemed genuine, and led me to believe that was/is her character. I'm trying to work out in my head how this would still work if she's scum.I guess Ted could have mentioned it in the scum chat so she knew to react or he stole her fake claim so it was actually genuine. It seems like a stretch. 

 

She originally called out Aquilla/FC for inactivity, which I guess could be done as scum. But why draw attention to a teammate that early? Distancing? 

 

The vote on FC is kind of leaning towards Null on me now. Could have been a bus attempt since it was kind of obvious that FC was a viable lynch at that point, furthering the previously mentioned distancing. 

 

It's plausible that she could be scum, but it'd be a lot of what ifs. 

 

Another possibility that's been crossing my mind is that Eldrick really is the Vig and SpadesBop is scum. Eldrick claims vig, Bop sees it and counter claims as scum and tries to get Eldrick lynched over it. The problem with this is it's obviously easy to confirm once Eldrick's flips. Or Vice Versa, Eldrick claims it as scum to try to call the vig (SpadesBop) out. 

 

OR Cordyx s scum, let their combined mafia egos free offed their team to get lock clear and are laughing at us all in their scum chat. 

 

 

 

I can't fathom that Spadesbop is scum, unless this is multiball.  They essentially hammered FC D1 and helped push Iron D2.  Countering the vig claim would essentially be suicide - essentially doing it BEFORE Eldrick had claimed 1x.  Losing a teammate, getting ready to lose another, and doing something to make themselves look bad? 

 

It would have been easier just to concede.

[MrsClov]

 

This may be gibberish as I try to work out my thoughts. This is mostly unlikely options we haven't considered yet.

 

I think Sooh may need to be reevaluated, eventually.  In my mind, her reaction to Ted coming into the thread and claiming Sailor Venus seemed genuine, and led me to believe that was/is her character. I'm trying to work out in my head how this would still work if she's scum.I guess Ted could have mentioned it in the scum chat so she knew to react or he stole her fake claim so it was actually genuine. It seems like a stretch. 

 

She originally called out Aquilla/FC for inactivity, which I guess could be done as scum. But why draw attention to a teammate that early? Distancing? 

 

The vote on FC is kind of leaning towards Null on me now. Could have been a bus attempt since it was kind of obvious that FC was a viable lynch at that point, furthering the previously mentioned distancing. 

 

It's plausible that she could be scum, but it'd be a lot of what ifs. 

 

Another possibility that's been crossing my mind is that Eldrick really is the Vig and SpadesBop is scum. Eldrick claims vig, Bop sees it and counter claims as scum and tries to get Eldrick lynched over it. The problem with this is it's obviously easy to confirm once Eldrick's flips. Or Vice Versa, Eldrick claims it as scum to try to call the vig (SpadesBop) out. 

 

OR Cordyx s scum, let their combined mafia egos free offed their team to get lock clear and are laughing at us all in their scum chat. 

 

 

 

I can't fathom that Spadesbop is scum, unless this is multiball.  They essentially hammered FC D1 and helped push Iron D2.  Countering the vig claim would essentially be suicide - essentially doing it BEFORE Eldrick had claimed 1x.  Losing a teammate, getting ready to lose another, and doing something to make themselves look bad? 

 

It would have been easier just to concede.

 

It wasn't serious. Just random possibilities that I have very little interest in looking into.

[Clovdyx]

Zander, I have no idea what's going on with the color thing.  I'm trying to figure out what you're attempting to say, beyond the fact that you just don't trust Fred, but I'm struggling to get it.  Can you explain it to me?

 

 

And lol too many words

[Clovdyx]

It wasn't serious. Just random possibilities that I have very little interest in looking into.

 

 

Can't hear you over us laughing in scum chat.

[Zander?]

TLDR AtP:

 

I feel like Fred is Scum tho admittedly have no Meta and I desperately wish I did to have a baseline of what to draw from.  I mean his post certainly do have a lot of effort and thought put into them,  And In some places I've found myself even agreeing with some of the things Fred's been saying.  And I hope Im not maybe looking through this with a already thinking he's Scum PoV and therefore I may not be looking at him through unbiased eyes.

 

But......

 

I can't help shake that slimy used car salesman feel.  Like after you shake is hand an hour later you notice your ring, watch and wallet are all missing. His obsession alone with associative reads reads weird to me especially with how early it came, how many he had, why they were and is extremely strong and defensive protectiveness or maybe defensiveness of them makes it ping me even more.

 

Also some of his reads were now proven to be good and others through stuff known have looked really sharp to mw, almost like kinda a GOAT or TMI type scenario minus obv his Scum read on now ml;d confirmed Towny Scruff....

 

I feel like he had to strong and too solid of reads from the get go.  I feel like he continually left outs on his Sooh read and if he's Scum I don't know if that spews her Town or not because of the possibility of 4 Scum tho maybe w/w distancing tho I feel if he's Scum the former is prolly more likely unless Sooh is playing GOAT Scum game.

 

And ofc ALL THIS CONSIDERING he subbed in late.

 

I found he said a lot of words a lot of times but didnt really say much or side stepped or gave vague often off topic or spun responses.

 

Someone please talk to me on Fred?!!?!?!?!?!

[Zander?]

I guess what I really need to do is find a villager in

 

Cuth

Sooh

Eldrick

Fredwood

 

If anyone's around and strongly feels someone on this list is a villager (besides themselves), I'd appreciate you speaking up & seeing if we can't get somewhere with it

 

 

You find a villager in that list and I am pretty sure you win the game.

 

I would say Sooh, but need to turn every stone atp

 

Yeah in Order from Town to Scum

 

Sooh

Eld (because of claim and unsure of #of non Town

Cuth

Fred.

 

Soohs been playing an amazing game if she's Scum.  Would like to see more of her tho and have her input.

[MrsClov]

 

It wasn't serious. Just random possibilities that I have very little interest in looking into.

 

 

Can't hear you over us laughing in scum chat.

 

     

[Zander?]

ALSO PLEASE IM NOT GONNA GET TO WATCH GoT TILL LIKE COUPLE HOURS AFTER IT AIRS SO PRETTY PRETTY PLEASE NO SPOILERS PLEASE!!!!!!

 

 

<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

[Zander?]

 

I said it wasn't real and it felt more like trying to create a larger suspect list then a genuine push on me, it's in my Night 1 Wall post.

 

I will say independently that Eldrick is more likely the non-mafia in that scenario.   I don't see why Scoobs would obvspew me there though as a teammate, I was slowly creeping up lists at the time, I can't think of a good reason to impede a teammates progress there because I don't see a scenario where Scoobs honestly thinks he's outliving me.  If I was his wolf teammate in that situation I would have been so titled. 

 

I think case in point, Scoobs avoids spewing Marsh, why spew one teammate who is only slightly better off then the other? Strategically it's a bad move, he's not going to elevate Marsh there, he's only dragging down his teammate to the other's level.

 

 

It's like he's talking about the selling points of the car and how lucky the customer is to get it at this price while the customer s asking why the contract is $4 k over the price he told you, and the term is twice as long as he said but then surprises you with a witty joke and a compliment about how good you'll look in it and that should make it all better and for some it even does....

[Spadeszee]

The other thought is that with Soohs potential role claim, wouldn't she be a smart kill for a wolf? Who know's what PR she could have with that defensive behavior over her character. I guess she would have been a really smart kill (assuming shes V).

 

Maybe Iron was in charge of the vote and took out Darthe in hopes it would keep him alive longer? People say he hinted at his role but when I looked back I didn't see any hints, but that might be from my inexperience and not being able to read Darthe well.

 

Lets make some assumptions right now...

LINZ :IC

DARTHE  :Cop

SOOH :Sailor Scout (Can't remember which)

MmmSpades : NightVig

Eldrick : NightVig

 

Cory-Chris

Zander

Fred

Cuth

 

We can't know what role Sooh has

 

Who gets NKed next?

 

3 basically vanilla villagers

Cory/Chris with a tone of control

 

With the assumption that Boppy and I as well as Eldrick aren't lying about our shots and are villager shots and that Sooh slipped and is an important villager.

 

Who gets picked off next? My brain says Sooh (potential PR) or Chris/Cory (due to thread influence).

 

I ask this and think maybe it's not a good idea to point it out and just let the wolf do their thing because it could be more telling, but this is where my brain is at right now.