The Unseen Eyes of Tel'Aran'Rhiod

[Luckers]

As some of you know I have called the Big Unnoticed Thing as the Unseen Eyes of Tel'aran'rhiod.

 

The first citing of the girls feeling eyes on them in Tel'aran'rhiod occurs in book four...

 

Studying the columns herself, Egwene shrugged uncomfortably. It did feel as if, they were being watched. No doubt it was just because they were the only people in the Stone. No one who had access to Tel'aran'rhiod could expect to find anyone to watch, here. [tSR;35, Sharp Lessons]

 

It gets referenced frequently, however. Here are some of the quotes.

 

"...She had the sensation of being watched from the dimnesses between the columns..."

"...The emptiness of the vast chamber oppressed her, all those great polished columns and that sense of being watched from the dimness between..."

”... there was often a feel of unseen eyes in the World of Dreams…”

"...that sensation of being watched that was so common in Tel’aran ‘rhiod. It was all Nynaeve could do not to flee..."

“…Suddenly very much aware of feeling unseen eyes…”

“…She had almost grown accustomed to the feel of unseen eyes in this vast chamber…”

“…Even the feel of unseen eyes could not touch her through her anger this morning…”

“…often she had the feeling of eyes watching…”

"...calling [Egwene] did nothing except increase that uneasy feeling of being watched..."

"...she became aware of being watched by unseen eyes. That sensation was always present in Tel'aran'rhiod, and not even the Wise Ones knew why..."

"...The ever-present sensation of unseen eyes watching was not dreamlike..."

"...That no longer seemed any odder to her than the feel of unseen eyes watching..."

 

The Ongoing Principal: First mentioned in book 4, with heavy mention in through books four and five, slows down a bit in book 6, and then has one mention each in books 7, 9 &10. This fits neatly with the Ongoing Principal.

The Discussion Factor: I cannot recall it being discussed once on DM, though Terez stated that it had been on Theoryland

Revelation Requirements: The eyes are an oddity that is brought up often and never explained. We indeed should have taken notice the second they appeared. This fits perfectly.

Presence in the Later Books: Fades into the background more after book six, so no problem here.

Potential Impact: Uncertain. The eyes have a dire feel to them, but we have no specific indication of what may come from them should this be the BUT.

Other Thoughts/Problems: None.

 

Now, nothing in Brandon's comments indicates that we should predict the impact of the Unnoticed Thing, just that we should have noticed it in itself. This directly parallel's the way the Big Unnoticed Thing in the Mistborn series played out--we had hints that something weird was going on, but no clue as to its impact or reality. For those interested in exploring this point further check out my post on the Mistborn Spoiler which can be found here. I do strongly suggest you actually read the series, however. It is good and this will spoile a great deal for you.

 

So, whilst I am locked on the Unseen Eyes definitely being the Big Unnoticed Thing, that should be held slightly apart from this theory about precisely what the Unseen Eyes are. This element of it all I’m not as certain on.

 

The Evil That Twisted Mordeth and Gave Birth to Shadar Logoth

 

Brandon has told us that Mordeth, in searching for ways to combat the Shadow, encountered an entirely different evil which changed him into what he is, and is currently driving him.

 

Matt: Ok. You mentioned that Mordeth was a man that had "power". You are reported as saying that his power was that "which he got by seeking out all of the evil things that weren’t related to the Shadow"…

 

Brandon: ...he was seeking things that were related to the Shadow. I think that that might be a misquote. He was looking into the power of the Shadow in order to defeat it, was his goal. He was looking into everything. He was looking into things that were not necessarily related to the Dark One as well. He was looking for everything that he could get…

 

Matt: ...previous to him arriving to Aridhol?

 

Brandon: ...Yeah...

 

Matt: ...before he went to the King and became the counselor, Mordeth was this guy that went around searching for Power?

 

Brandon: Yeah, he wanted to defeat the Dark One and he felt that he could find other ways to do it […] He originally was good. He did not…he wasn’t this terrible person to begin with but he was looking to defeat the Dark One, to find a way to defeat the Shadow. And he looked into a lot of things he shouldn’t have looked into. There are evils that are not necessarily directly related to the Dark One, though everything evil kind of has…just as there are goods that are not related necessarily to the One Power…we are talking much as Perrin runs with wolves. This is a thing older than…there are other evils things that are old in a similar way…

 

Matt: ...is the assumption then that he found one of these?

 

Brandon: He did.

 

Matt: He found one or multiple?

 

Brandon: He found many things of darkness. There is one in specific that is driving him but he knew too much. He found things he should not have gotten into and that is what turned him into…when he got there he was already corrupt. He still thought he was doing a good work. He still thought we are going to raise this Kingdom up and it is going to become this bastion against the Shadow, but he was already by then corrupted.

 

[Hah - Maybe I should have asked if Mordeth was under the influence of the Finns...or at the very least if they were one of the powers he found in his quest... ]

 

Matt: Is this same corrupting influence what corrupts everyone through the dagger itself?

 

Brandon: Yeah. Through him. yes. And even through his presence.

 

So, this evil exists seperate of him, is driving him (or perhaps was before Fain's introduction and the presence of DO evil--it has been stated Fain is unique), and is the source of all the corruption related to Shadar Logoth.

 

The Unseen Eyes of Shadar Logoth

 

It must be noted that a direct parallel exists between the Unseen Eyes of TAR, and those of Shadar Logoth.

 

The back of his neck prickled. Something was watching them from the darkness in the columns. He spun around, staring at the buildings across the way. He could feel eyes on him from there, too. His grip tightened on his sword hut, though he wondered what good it would be. Watching eyes seemed to be everywhere. The others looked around warily; he

knew they could feel it, too.

 

[tEotW; 19, Shadow's Waiting]

 

The watchers followed them. Or else there were lots of watchers, lots of eyes staring out of almost every building. Rand could not see anything move, hard as he tried, but he could feel the eyes, eager, hungry. He did not know which would be worse. Thousands of eyes, or just a few, following them.

 

[tEotW; 19, Shadow's Waiting]

 

At last, with twilight falling, they came in sight of the white stone building they had left what seemed like days ago. Suddenly the watching eyes departed. Between one step and the next, they vanished in a blink. Without a word Rand broke into a trot, followed by his friends, then a full run that only ended when they hared through the doorway and collapsed, panting.

 

[tEotW; 19, Shadow's Waiting]

 

Disturbingly similar descriptions. Of course this cannot be the BUT--it's mentioned in book one, after all. More on that in a second, though I would point out that these eyes are noted to have grown worse in LoC.

 

Rand turned slowly where he stood, staring up at windows like empty eye sockets, the eyes gouged out. With the sun climbing high he could feel unseen watchers. When he had been here before, that feeling had not come this strongly until the sun began to go down.

 

[LoC; 21, To Shadar Logoth]

 

Rand turned slowly where he stood, staring up at windows like empty eye sockets, the eyes gouged out. With the sun climbing high he could feel unseen watchers. When he had been here before, that feeling had not come this strongly until the sun began to go down.

 

[LoC; 21, To Shadar Logoth]

 

The invisible watchers filled every window, every opening, thousands of them, waiting, anticipating.

 

[LoC; 21, To Shadar Logoth]

 

So yes, Shadar Logoth was destroyed, yet it can be clearly noted that the evil was somehow growing stronger.

 

The Unseen Eyes of Padan Fain

 

The next interesting point is that these Watchers aren't just in Shadar Logoth. Fain seems to carry the same sense with him. In tGH Rand experiences the sensation of Unseen Watchers.

 

In the woodyard, the presence returned, the sense of someone there. The feel of eyes peering at him around tall piles of split firewood under the long sheds, darting glances over the stacks of seasoned planks and timbers waiting on the other side of the yard for the carpenter's shop, now closed up tight. He refused to look around, refused to think of how one set of eyes could move from place to place so fast, could cross the open yard from the firewood shed to the lumbershed without even a flicker of movement that he could see. He was sure it was one set of eyes. Imagination. Or maybe I'm going crazy already. He shivered. Not yet. Light, please not yet. Stiff-backed, he stalked across the woodyard, and the unseen watcher followed.

 

Down deep corridors lit only by a few rush torches, in storerooms filled with sacks of dried peas or beans, crowded with slatted racks heaped with wrinkled turnips and beets, or stacked with barrels of wine and casks of salted beef and kegs of ale, the eyes were always there, sometimes following him, sometimes waiting when he entered. He never heard a footstep but his own, never heard a door creak except when he opened and closed it, but the eyes were there. Light, I am going crazy.

 

[tGH; 2, The Flame of Tar Valon]

 

Now many assume this to be the Grey Man that later attempts to kill Rand during the Leavetaking. However, Liandrin also experiences the Eyes. Consider.

 

Pulling the door shut behind her, Liandrin suddenly felt a prickling across her skin. Breath catching, she whirled about, looking up and down the dimly lit hall. Empty. It was full night beyond the arrowslits. The hall was empty, yet she was sure there had been eyes on her. The vacant corridor, shadowy between the lamps on the walls, mocked her. She shrugged uneasily, then started down the hall determinedly. Fancies take me. Nothing more.

 

[tGH; 5, The Shadow in Shienar]

 

Why would the Grey Man watch Liandrin--more to the point on the same page we switch to Fain's POV.

 

As a lamp came into the cell chamber, Fain raised his head, grinning at something, unseen yet felt, beyond the dungeon's stone ceiling. "It isn't over yet," he whispered. "The battle's never over."

 

[tGH; 5, The Shadow in Shienar]

 

 

Furthermore in chapter 3 Fain keeps looking towards where the woman's apartments are, where Liandrin is.

 

He let his arm fall, and his eyes rose to stare intently at an angle up into the darkness. A crooked grin twisting his mouth, he chuckled deep in his throat as if whatever he saw was amusing. "Mordeth knows more than all of you. Mordeth knows."

 

Egwene backed away from the cell until she reached Rand, and only the edge of the light touched the bars of Fain's cell. Darkness hid the peddler, but they could still hear his chuckles. Even unable to see him, Rand was sure Fain was still peering off at nothing. With a shiver, he pried his fingers off his sword hilt. "Light!" he said hoarsely. "This is what you call being like he used to be?"

 

"Sometimes he's better, and sometimes worse." Egwene's voice was unsteady. "This is worse-much worse than usual."

 

"What is he seeing, I wonder. He's mad, staring at a stone ceiling in the dark." If the stone weren't there, he'd he looking straight at the women's apartments. Where Moiraine is, and the Amyrlin Seat. He shivered again. "He's mad."

 

[tGH; 3, Friends and Enemies]

 

Of course this raises the question of why would he be looking at Liandrin. LoC gives us something of an answer.

 

It was the most remarkable thing about Darkfriends. There should be nothing to single out a Darkfriend from anyone else, but of late he found he could tell one at a glance, even someone who had only thought of swearing to the Shadow, as if they had a sooty mark on their foreheads.

 

[LoC; 28, Letters]

 

Obviously he has only just gained mastery of this skill, but much like the flies situation in tGH was an early manifestation of his illusion skills, this awareness of Liandrin (and likely Alviarin) was an early manifestation of his awareness of Darkfriends. At least, that is what I suggest.

 

What Is The Relevence? These Things Occur Before Book Four, So They Ain't The BUT

 

Shadar Logoth and Fain are both results of the touch of the same evil thing, as shown by Brandon's comments. Both of these evils manifest with the feel of unseen eyes, unseen watchers. They themselves cannot be the BUT, but what I am suggesting is that the source of their evil may be.

 

Consider, Fain and Shadar Logoth have a linked source, but TAR has no links to either. So, if neither Shadar Logoth or Fain are the source of the TAR eyes--what if the TAR eyes are the source of Shadar Logoth and Fain?

 

The final thing I would address is that many have asked why the Eyes haven't done anything till now--what indication we have that that is to change. Little, in truth, but I do have this one quote which I think frames the response to such a question nicely.

 

"Whatever watches us is waiting for nightfall, I think," Sulin said. "I have looked into windows where something was looking back at me, but there was nothing there. Dancing the spears with something we cannot see will not be easy."

 

[LoC; 21, To Shadar Logoth]

 

Whatever watches waits till nightfall. The Shadow darkens the world, the next book is to be called the Towers of Midnight. The time the watchers wait for, perhaps?

[ChrisTrebing]

This is actually a very good theory. Almost good enough to make me think its not the little fat man angreal ;)

[Byzantine279]

It does seem like as good theory as to what it could be, after all we started to write off the eye's much like the characters did. Although, i disagree about them being evil, Honestly if the light has anything else opposing it at the last battle it won't have a chance. I would assume that whatever those eyes are if they do reveal themselves it will be to help the world in its greatest hour of need.

[ChrisTrebing]

Despite the fact that Fain seems to be able to manipulate them?

[Demiandre]

Despite the fact that Fain seems to be able to manipulate them?

Fain? Manipulating the unseen eyes in T'A'R?? What makes you think he can enter T'A'R? Or control/manipulate them?

[Byzantine279]

I think you may be thinking of the Black Wind, not the eyes, they don't change no matter what is going on.

[Demiandre]

The Black Wind certainly is an oddity. Why is Fain in some way able to control it? Even if it isn't perfect... I don't know if Fain ordered it to track Rand, or if Fain's evil corrupted it and tranfered his anger to him unwillingly. But it has changed. In total opposition as the wind we know from the first chapter of every book. Which stay the same in some way.

 

Back to topic, the Eyes are not evil as the DO evil is. I think they are more like a neutral evil. Like the Finn. Something so away from our concept of good and bad that they seem evil to us, while not really being that evil. It's a matter of concept and custom.

[Byzantine279]

ahh, sort of a "neutral force" that because it lacks the emotions we are used to seems to be heartless and evil, when really it is just impossible for us to truly understand? But then, we are debating the characteristics of watchers who we know nothing about except that they seem to exist in TAR.

[Demiandre]

Yes. All we do is speculate. As Tam quoted : "King don't whine, they deliberate". We don't argue, we speculate louder and louder... in silence :)

[Luckers]

The Black Wind certainly is an oddity. Why is Fain in some way able to control it?

 

I don't think he did control it, I think he imprinted some form of his own thoughts and desires upon it--note the way it seeks Rand despite the fact that Fain actually wanted him to follow. Obviously Machin Shin was acting on the same longing the Dark One forced into Fain.

[HighLordXanthus]

I guess I always felt that the eyes were the Heroes of the Horn. We know that they reside in T'A'R, and that they know how to not be seen but still watch (the scene with perrin and birgitte at the tower of ghengi).

[lillcheese]

Don't forget about the Aiel belief that going into TAR in the flesh = evil/bad/soul loss.

 

I know some people discounted this as a remnant superstition relating to when the Forsaken prowled dreams back during the War. Another explanation is that the more time you spend in TAR in the flesh makes you susceptible to the eye-evil.

 

Though that would require some tie in or explanation for why Slayer is apparently unaffected by the eyes. And you know, we've never gotten (AFAIK) an explanation for how Slayer can do what he does. Maybe Mordeth figured out how to do it as well. Maybe being a channeler protects one from the affects - explaining Egwene's and Rand's* apparent immunity.

 

*For the moment I'm assuming his problems are caused by the oodles of other BAD that has happened to him.

[Dastion]

I don't agree with Lucker's guess. It's just too... unlikely. The Unseen Eyes are something that has been frequently brought up and mentioned and the linking it to the eyes in Shadar Logoth is strange. I mean, think about it. The Forsaken are know TAR very well, especially Moghedian and Lanfear. Yet they do not seem concerned about the eyes. The Wise Ones even mention them having always been there. I really doubt that if the eyes were something dangerous that the forsaken and the wise ones would be so easy about it. Also note that had anything like Shadar Logoth existed back in the Age of Legends they could have cleansed the source.

 

The evil of Shadar Logoth is something different entirely. Ishmael refers to it as an old friend/enemy. And that's true. The evil of Shadar Logoth is the evil within Humanity. It is an evil no Myrddraal can match. Myrddraal and Trollocs know nothing of love, compassion, friends or even family. They are born evil and linked to the Dark One. Humans are different, we know love, we know family. So for one us to sink to the evil of the Dark One is a greater blasphemy than anything a trolloc could do. The people of Shadar Logoth did just this, in fighting the evils of the Dark One they decided to mimic their tactics, to be ruthless, cruel, and heartless. They fought fire with fire and burned themselves to ashes. They epitomized the evil potential within all humans and Shadar Logoth was forever tainted by the hatred and distrust they embraced.

 

That's why the evils are so different, yet similar and why Ishmael is so familiar with it. He knows better than most Chosen what is in store for them. They may live for a time if the DO wins, but then all will perish. You see, the Dark One uses this evil within humans against them. He takes advantage of the greed and selfishness within us all to tempt followers to his side. Without this, he would be virtually powerless. Without people like the Forsaken, how far would his efforts of gone? It is an evil he can so easily bend to his will that Shadar Logoth is unique in that it is an instance where it is used against him.

 

Personally, I believe the 'BUT' is the Ter'Angreal Nynaeve and Elayne almost found in the tower. Or, it could be something else. From what I recall, Brandon gave the impression that it was something 'going on' sort of behind the scenes hat has been hinted at but not mentioned.

[Luckers]

I don't agree with Lucker's guess. It's just too... unlikely. The Unseen Eyes are something that has been frequently brought up and mentioned and the linking it to the eyes in Shadar Logoth is strange. I mean, think about it. The Forsaken are know TAR very well, especially Moghedian and Lanfear. Yet they do not seem concerned about the eyes. The Wise Ones even mention them having always been there. I really doubt that if the eyes were something dangerous that the forsaken and the wise ones would be so easy about it. Also note that had anything like Shadar Logoth existed back in the Age of Legends they could have cleansed the source.

 

You're making the assumption that the Forsaken know everything, which they don't. The Wise One's clearly don't question the Eyes due to their long presence--its not that they've investigated, and through evidence shown what they Eyes are and that they are harmless, Egwene is quite clear. The Wise One's have no idea, and just shrug them off coz they've always been around. Whose to say the Forsaken don't do the same thing.

 

You also make the assumption that the Age of Legenders have the ability to either percieved the threat or deal with it--when in fact if I am correct it will take Perrin, a wolfbrother of whom the Age of Legenders only knew about esoterically, as partial myth to deal with it.

[nojnomad]

Please be kind. This is my first serious post into the forums....

 

Would this also nicely tie in to Machi... (can't spell or say the name of the black wind of "the ways"). The Line from Morain (sp?) about Fain having been captured by the black wind that they fled from has bothered me since my second, of too many to count, re-reads. As I recall, Fain was caught/surrounded by the black wind and it recognized him as being a type of kin. If Luckers (the Oh Great and Mighty Nerd Lord (typed with only the greatest of respect)) is correct this would nicely tie in the black wind as the evil or potentially as one of the evils (referred to by Brandon) that corrupted Mordeth (in his search) in the first place.

[Val Mickey]

Kindness? This is DRAAAAAAGONMOUNT!

 

My only problem with the Unseen Eyes being the BUT is the Impact. IIRC Brandon said we would say 'Shoulda seen that.'

[Demiandre]

No. The impact we can't guess. The cause of it we shall have spotted. IIRC...

 

The Black Wind isn't the same sort of evil. It comes from the taint on saidin normally.

 

Luckers, if you read me correctly, I said in some way. I implied unconsciously and unwillingly. As I explained in my post, it seems Fain's hatred of Rand has been sipping through the Black Wind.

[nojnomad]

If I remember correctly every time the origins of the black wind are discussed and tied to the taint of saidin it is someone’s speculation. on that topic if it was an origin of the taint from saidin why would it have recognized Fain. Only because he was crazy??? seems unlikely...

[Demiandre]

Yeah but what else could have tainted the Ways? They decay, they are dark and dangerous. I think there are links toward it. That would be another "evil", beside the Shadar Logoth's, the Finns' and the Unseen Eye's one. It feels like a bit too much. And it so connect to Fain, as he was less mordeth, more DO's hound. The evil used on Fain to make him as he was when entering the Two Rivers in tEotW made him capable of leaving the Ways while the Waygate was assaulted not a long time before. The Black wind didn't made him as the Ogier Verin ausculted in Stedding Tsofu. He survived. That is an oddity. Further, we see that the Black Wind addresses Rand personally. It follows him. That is a big change in between a book. It points toward similarity between evils and so I think the Taint is the cause of the Way's current state.

 

And I also think the Unseen Eyes in T'A'R and Shadar Logoth are related. Similarity indicates pattern to me and think we should trust digging into books, as Rand stated in tSR "Surprising what you can dig of books, if you read long enough". So yes, I'm a partisan of the everything-is-linked-in-WoT.

[Adrian44]

For some reason, I always thought the Unseen Eyes were the Finns, specifically the foxes, waiting to take the skins off people who dreamed their way into T'A'R'.

 

Having said that, I do not really no why I thought that....

[Tom Sawyer]

I always thought that the unseen eyes were just the souls of dead people hanging around in the Dream World waiting to be reborn.

[Luckers]

I always thought that the unseen eyes were just the souls of dead people hanging around in the Dream World waiting to be reborn.

 

RJ said the normal dead hang out somewhere other than TAR.

[Darian]

perhaps this evil that they are talking about is simply bred of human beings...its origins are humans, and humans are capable of great evil. the unseeing eyes could be people that stayed in the dream world too long and became less human? and my theory on a different kind of evil has probably to do with the Christian religion, where the creator created Adam and eve in his image hoping to one day culture replicas of god that were like him; the capability of 'human' evil is that they understand a level of good which i doubt the dark one understands. to knowingly be evil when understanding good, i believe to be a great type of evil, a godly evil. which is slightly different from the dark one.

[googly]

I just re-read TFoH.

 

Chapter 54 (featuring Moghedien):

Nynaeve was having no trouble maintaining the temper that allowed her to channel a flow of Spirit to the amber sleeping woman in her pouch. Even the feel of unseen eyes could not touch her through her anger this morning. Siuan stood in front of her on a Salidar street in Tel’aran’rhiod, a street empty save for them, a few flies, and one fox that paused to look at them curiously before trotting on.

 

Chapter 55:

Stepping through [the gateway to entering Tel'aran'rhiod in the flesh] quickly, [Rand] loosed the weave and hurried away across the courtyard as the gateway vanished. Rahvin would have felt that gate if he was close enough and trying. The fat little stone man did not mean he could stand and wait to be attacked.

 

No sign of life, except for himself and one fly. That was the way it had been in Tear, too.

 

Are the flies Moghedien's spies in T'A'R? Surely that must've been discussed before, but can't find any references. Could they be the unseen eyes, though? I always thought the "and one fly" thing was just another way of saying "not a single soul", but maybe it was actually literally one fly there.

[FarShainMael]

So Moggy was being the proverbial 'fly on the wall'?