Here's something that confuses me. The Black Ajah, Siuan, Leane and Nynaeve were all using copies of the dream ter'angreal--i.e. ones that only allow you to channel a minute trickle. So how were they throwing around blasts like they were in the Dream Battle?

Since nearly everyone was using copies Elayne had made, they were mostly on an equal footing. Another point is that they weren't using weaves that directly relied on relative strength (i.e. trying to shield the black sisters), so T'A'R helped augment the intended effects.

Be that as it may, the channeling going on there did seem a bit over the top.

-- dwn

Carlinya's death might be a discontinuity. Min saw a raven tattoo around her which strongly implies a future link to Seanchan royalty.

From the FAQ:

TFOH: 26, Sallie Daera, 317

 

CARLINYA: "a raven floating beside her dark hair; more a drawing of the bird than the bird itself. She thought it was a tattoo..."

Carlinya is one of Sheriam's faction with the rebel AS. The raven tattoo indicates that a person is "property" of the Seanchan empress.

-- dwn

Not this again. It's not about begging forgiveness. It's not about forgiving her at all. It's about verifying that she's aware a mistake has been made, that her defenses were breached by the enemy, and that she's acting to remedy the situation. Her way of deflecting guilt is the mark of an untrustworthy individual.

I'll repeat that I don't think this act alone tarnishes her entire character, but it is a definite weakness, this inability to assume responsibility for mistakes.

And it doesn't matter that Semirhage possessed knowledge they could not know. Were they not aware of this fact beforehand? A defense mechanism should have been in place to counter that risk. Even if there was no reasonable way in which this eventuality could have been averted, investigation an assessment are still in order. Hospitals don't hold M&M conferences to point fingers. They do it to learn from past mistakes. The same holds here.

That scene is in the midst of a crisis, and Cadsuane's terse responses are in line with that. Her reaction is to find out what happened, find out what damage has been done, and find out whether any threat remains. We sympathize with Rand because we read the previous chapter, but Cadsuane doesn't know what's going on, and Rand rebuffs any of her attempts to find out. She acknowledges that her wards were breached, but can you really expect a discussion and analysis when, from her point of view, they are under attack?

How had al'Thor survived? And what of the other contents of that box? Did al'Thor now have the access key, or had the statuette been taken by Semirhage? Did Cadsuane dare ask? The silence continued. "What are you waiting for?" she finally asked with all the bravado she could summon. "Do you expect an apology from me?"

 

-- The Gathering Storm, A Warp in the Air, 360

Cadsuane is clearly in crisis response mode, and is dumbfounded as to why Rand just stands there doing nothing. As for 'bravado', it makes perfect sense to project confidence in a situation where nobody else is willing to stand up and take charge.

-- dwn

Why would he have even needed any additional excuse, and one personally provided by Cadsuane from her own lips no less? What, he couldn't have just arbitrarily decided on his own that it was her fault and deserved to die? Given that he eventually decided that the EVERYONE IN THE ENTIRE WORLD AND ALL OF EXISTENCE should probably just be gotten rid of, without any assistance in the form of supposedly destabilizing apologies, I'm not buying this "An apology would have been the WORST MOVE EVAR! Why, that would crrrraaaaazzzzy!" argument.

Rand has frequently shown paranoia over Aes Sedai manipulation. Any kind of apology or similar attempt to mollify him would have fed into that paranoia. Then boom.

I don't think Rand would have arbitrarily decided to kill her, though. I get the sense that he wanted some kind of justification, however weak or tangental, for taking that step. Kind of like taking a perverse satisfaction in an anticipated betrayal. He's like the guy in a movie holding a gun, screaming "just give me a reason!".

-- dwn

I'm confused. How would her apologising have given Rand an excuse to kill Cadsuane?? Surely someone admitting they've erred is more likely to mitigate against the offence than add to it??

From her point of view Rand was practically in the midst of a psychotic break. Saying anything could set him off. Giving an insincere apology--which any apology would be, since she did everything she could to safeguard the ter'angreal--might easily tip him into 'kill everyone' mode.

As regards Semi herself, when Caddy is thinking about how Semi might be broken, she ponders how her own reputation and image is quite important to her, and to be humiliated would probably be the hardest punishment to bear. Now my point is, if you find sigificant similarities between your own character and that of a 3000 yr old sadist whose name is used to frighten children, is that not enough to set off alarm bells??!

I think you're taking the comparison a bit too far. Sure, Cadsuane, like Semirhage, used her self assuredness to gain an edge on others, but their personalities hardly had much in common.

--dwn

Maybe somebody coming into the series today wouldn't have the same problem with it that I do. I've been reading it since 1991. When you wait, sometimes years for the next installment, and it's just more of the same - especially that multi-book Perrin/Faile disaster - it leaves a really bad taste.

I've been reading them nearly as long and I actually prefer the later books to the early ones. When I read them now, the first three books, despite good writing and characters, are structured much like most pulp fantasy. I think one of RJ's great decisions was to abandon that format and allow the plot to twist and turn more naturally. True, it has been frustrating to have to wait for years on some plot arcs, but it has greatly improved the final result.

The one thing that really bothered me about Cadsuane was her introduction. Here we have a legendary Aes Sedai, one that strikes awe and fear in all others, one who will become a major secondary character--and we've never heard of her before. That out-of-the-blue appearance made her feel more like a replacement Moiraine instead of a properly realized character, and it took a few books for me to overcome that feeling. RJ was great at planting little foreshadowing tidbits but he really dropped the ball in this instance.

(I would greatly appreciate it if anyone knows of some early references to Cadsuane that I missed.)

To bring this back to Cadsuane - from where I sit, she should be played by Margaret Hamilton. Just a total mis-characterization of what she was billed to be.

No no no. Katharine Hepburn.

-- dwn

Leigh Butler made an interesting observation on Faile in one of her re-read posts. We see Faile primarily through Perrin's point of view. The problem is that Perrin has a preternatural ability to read emotions--an ability that Faile is likely unaware of. So yes, Faile is often jealous, angry, sullen or otherwise put out, but she rarely acts on, or says anything about those feelings; yet Perrin is constantly aware of everything she's trying to conceal.

I think the same sort of thing applies to Cadsuane. Since we usually see her from Rand or Nynaeve's PoV, we must take into account that they both see Cadsuane as intimidating and annoying. Indeed, Cadsuane's few PoVs portray her in a much more sympathetic and understandable light. Remember that Cadsuane is old, and not in the typical Aes Sedai way; she's actually lived most of those years out in the world. It makes perfect sense for her to be a slightly curmudgeonly old woman who sees most other people as young whippersnappers.

Cadsuane's goal--reminding Rand and the Asha'man of their humanity--is also extremely difficult. Thinking of yourself as a doomed weapon isn't far removed from the nihilism that destroyed Ishamael. So she coerced Flinn, Narishma and Hopwil into warder bonds to give them that uniquely intimate connection to another person. That approach didn't work for Rand, so she attacked his interactions with others, requiring that he show courtesy and respect, treating them as people instead of tools. As he kept spiralling into darkness (thank you, Semirhage), she ultimately used Tam, hoping that the childhood memories and feelings he invoked would help Rand break through the barriers he'd constructed. And it worked, albeit in a dicey way.

Luckers' original post touched on all of this. Cadsuane's strength is her experience with understanding the relationships between people. She's annoying because she's usually right. She's abrasive because she knows she's usually right.

(Regarding realism in fantasy, the realistic traits of the WoT characters are what makes them believable and thus sympathetic and interesting.)

-- dwn

The Rand-Moridin link and the necessity of Callandor might be tied together.

Given that Callandor can only be safely used when linked with two women, if the soul-link causes Rand and Moridin to swap bodies while Rand is in such a circle, then Moridin is suddenly neutralized until the woman controlling the circle releases him.

A neat symmetry would be Moridin controlling a link with Cyndane and Moghedion... which Rand takes control of during the swap.

(I still cling to the faint hope that Lanfear is involved in re-sealing the bore.)

-- dwn