4 hours ago, Bugglesley said:

Ogier are aliens

I too recall this, and took it to mean the Ogier are not native in their origin, to Randland prime - the world the story takes place in. And I'm most certain the actual Ogier origin is never discussed, hinted at, etc., at least in the main books anyway.

On 12/6/2023 at 11:01 AM, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

But I'm pretty sure it is very specifically stated that unique amongst the Deathwatch, the Gardeners are not property. 

Entirely possible I was mistaken on this.

I'm just happy I was able to contribute a little and generate some discussion.

Well stated @Bugglesley. Very well stated.

On 11/7/2023 at 6:59 AM, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

I don't know. I have a terrible confession to make. Starting another re-read, I realised I very often over-look New Spring, so after The Great Hunt went back to and I've never read it all.

 

It has been sitting on my desk for years, my books are all over the place after moving countries so it just sat there by itself after I found it second hand and apparently has sat their quite alone and lonely as I have never picked it up. 

 

So not really qualified to answer, lol.

I think you were incredibly lucky to find new WoT material...an entire Novella...after all these years.

On 3/1/2023 at 1:43 AM, Lightfriendsocialmistress said:

Second law of thermodynamics states something like a closed system eventually breaks down, so even though WOT isn’t based on our laws of physics i would still think creation/creator would need to add more energy/souls from time to time to ensure creation doesn’t implode on itself 

Are you describing Entropy?

Pretty sure ALL the Gardeners are also property of the Empire. It's unclear, to me at the very least, if this implies all Seanchan Ogier are as well, or only those Ogier who are selected/volunteer?

It's interesting to consider how this came about. Steddings would have been a safe haven for both sides during the Consolidation, and even before. People might have went there to be free of OP subjugation. As well as those running from the A'dam later on. I'm curious how the Empire convinced the Ogier to submit.

Almost forgot, if the Bowl was indeed a parabolic dish, wouldn't that imply the use of specific EM wave types/forms? Would an EM wave/field be able of drawing energy 'from' the system? I think inputting would be relatively straightforward in comparison. 

Well, that sure was something to get through. At least the conversation was spirited.

I looked at the Seafolk, specifically the Windfinders, as the 'power/engine' for their vessels...the vessels that use sails anyhow. So they provide wind for sailing where there is none, or amplify existing winds when needed.

How would they learn to do this? I would imagine by emulating Nature, at first. Then improving upon Her, if possible. Along the way the Windfinders would also learn that Nature may push back if pushed too far. In this way they could hone their skills over a very, very long lifetime.

How did AoL AS learn to control the weather? They built automated devices to perform this function. 

It seems easy to see how the 'primitives' could/did become so extraordinarily skilled. One might think the AoL AS also went through a learning curve and one result may have been many small power devices instead of a few high power devices for optomal weather control. Who knows?

The real beauty is how simple is was to get here. Just Imagination and a little Occam's Razor. Not a single Canon/Cannon was required. 😁🤔

What was said above explain why the men felt that saidin felt/behaved strangely in proximity to Ebou Dar, and along the "spokes" that radiated out from the Bowl into Randland. Rand is sick from some other factors, aside from the weirdness with the OP around Ebou Dar. One is his link with Moridin, via their crossed Balefire ar Shadar Logoth. Another is a flaw when Rand is using Callandor. Callandor magnifies the Taint.

And as usual of late, I was mistaken. Very mistaken this time. These things I feel are somewhat evident.. aren't. Not in the books anyway. There is no solid explanation, for any of it, from the books. Any hint at what's causing the weirdness in the books is mostly focused around saidar. I think a few Ashaman comment on the strangeness of saidin, but I believe that's it. Nothing further.

Any real explanation comes from Team Jordan. That's where I got my info about the unraveled gateway having only localized effects. Also where I read about the Bowls effects on the OP, in the local area of Ebou Dar and across Randland along the 'spokes' that radiated out from the Bowl.

Out of all the above, only Callandor is somewhat explained. I believe it's Cads who calls out the swords Taint-magmifying ability.

On 4/19/2023 at 8:35 PM, thacq said:

I just want more and more

This sentence fragment describes...

Every. Single. One. Of. Us.

I envy your ignorance, please keep us updated. Reading your un-corrupted thoughts is fun.

On 4/3/2023 at 2:49 AM, Lightfriendsocialmistress said:

just might spend the rest of my life immersed in reading and rereading WOT! 😂

And that would not be a life wasted!

The 'When' is an extremely important point. I'm curious...was Graendal(sp?) able to capture/compel any of the Wise One Dreamwalkers during the Last Battle? I ask because they were closest to Perrin's skill level in T'A'R.

Having said all that, I put forth that if Perrin was compulsed(sp?), it had to have been before he could defuse OP weaves in T'A'R. Had anyone tried to compel Perrin after that milestone, I feel Perrin would have immediately sensed the intrusion in his mind. Proof is Perrin's ability to sense the wolves. And the wolves ability to enter Perrin's mind on a sub-conscious level where they would watch over his dreams.

Thinking about this further, one could argue this makes Perrin immune to compulsion, unless he was compelled during his youth in the Two Rivers. Had Perrin been compelled after the wolf connection was established, I feel the wolves would have remarked on the personality change or perhaps stopped communicating with him. No proof here, just a gut feeling.

Another gut feeling, and somewhat off-topic...how many of the female Forsaken, in female bodies, actually died...as in final deaths - no resurrections? My memory is really foggy here but I don't think any did. Lanfear would have been the first in the series then. I'll leave this idea for now. If it has merit, I think it should have a separate topic. I don't mind necro-rezzing but no need to derail a topic I didn't start.

I don't have the books with me, [at work and wasn't issued a desk :p]. Did Rand's commands/prohibitions include not drinking/touching any water you might find? Aiel are fascinated by water and the balefire fight may have set one of the fountains working again or otherwise caused a pool or rivulet to form. Liah's quickly succumbing to the paranoia could simply be she found some water and had a sip or just ran her fingers through it. I think that would have been enough. And once paranoid, she would actively hide from everyone.

I'm glad someone elsr enjoyed Hinderstrap's part in the Last Battle.

Are we assuming Rand had any say, or free will, in the matter?

He needed a teacher. There was no one else, not even Logain could fill that position. Taim 'endured', what, 14 years of the taint before meeting up with Rand. And channeling is addictive. Taim was the best/only choice.

As for what might and did happen at the BT, Rand knew. Maybe not for certain, but he at least suspected. The wonder girls had their "What-if" experiences. Those lasted hours. The wonder boys spent 3 months in "what-if" land. iirc.

Rand was also working on legacies. Pretty sure he viewed the BT as such from its inception.

To paraphrase Perrin..."They had very few choices left to them".

Taim-andred. You all got trolled by RJ. With the way RJ planned, Taim-andred was a red herring. RJ always had a plan and it was never what any of the majority thought.

In the end, Rand was responsible for events at the BT but his hands were tied by Fate, IMO.

7 hours ago, Elgee said:

So beautifully put, Aan-Alone!! *wipes a tear*

I was truly speaking from the heart. This series touches me, and I suspect many others, in a way nothing else does. Or sadly ever will.

I've read bunches of your posts over various threads. Yours, and many others here, sometimes make me feel as if I'm writing at a 3rd grade level. You're all very eloquent. So thanks for the compliment.

On 11/1/2022 at 12:20 AM, bringbackthomsmoustache said:

Except it is clear reading between the lines that what the Aes Sedai were trying to save was the Aiel themselves, the terangreal were just an excuse to allow them to command the Aiel to go.  As far as completing the actual purpose of their mission goes the Tuatha'an are doing their part by adhering to the way of the leaf.

I never saw with that perspective.  Thank you.

This isn't as absurd as you may think  it seems. Fits right in with the cultures/time period of randland. [If there's a word or phrase for what I mean with that last sentence, it eludes me].

Everyone had belt knives. Granted, not optimized for throwing, but ever hear of the game mumbltypeg(sp?)?

Every skill improves with use.

Storage used sheaths. For sure. Randlanders may be bumbling idgits at times, but the're not complete fools. 😉🤔

Nynaeve' character struggles are sometimes difficult to read, depending on the readers imagination station.  But so worth it. She's awesome. You'll see.

Welcome and enjoy.

Perhaps Elayne was just emulating Morgase? I see her as lacking in various relationships role models. I could be biased and mistaken too?

I'm OG and had to wait in between books for the next in the series to be released. I think all of them. So I'd reread prior to release to catch myself up.

After AMoL, I didn't touch WoT for a very long time. Close to a decade. How foolish I've been. 😂🤣

Another unexplored reason...

Prior to the BT, only useable male channelers would have been the turned Aiel.  To make use of them, in addition to the reasons given above, RJ would have had to bring Shara into the story. 

Also, River of Souls left me with the impression the Sharans didn't normally/ever work with shadowspawn previously. This has me thinking how the first 13 or so Aiel dreadlords were turned. If 13 Aiel actually volunteered...that's disheartening and someone has toh.

As for a full fifth of the sisters being black and not sieze-ing control? I think the BA had a hand in every seat of power within the WT. Perhaps the BA felt they were as in control as they heeded to be while still being invisible. 

Welcome to the books. Hope you enjoy them.

I don't remember exactly when I started. Somewhere early 90's. Got first half of TEoTW for free and was instantly hooked. I enjoyed it all. Some parts more than others at first, but over time, the distinctions fade.

Why do I enjoy it so? I relate with so many of the characters, the situations they're in. Not completely, but I see pieces of myself everywhere. And the emotions evoked. Nothing else comes close, besides actual RL interactions. No other book series, movie, TV show, gam, piece of music, etc. I will get choked up thinking about certain scenes, scenes I haven't read in years. My voice will waver and my eyes get misty trying to talk about WoT stuff with people. And no, it has not helped me find converts. Sadly.

Why does WoT do this to/for me?

Why is water wet? Why do birds fly? Why do fish swim?

This is why I keep returning to Randland.

Clues:

1. Entire battle takes place at Merrilor.

2. We have a map, so everyone who needs a map has one. That being Aludra, and the two AM, Grady? and Neald?

3. In the PoVs from Talmanes, I don't think the AM with him ever changes.

4. Channelers can open Gateways to anywhere, in a very precise manner, within a short range of a previous Gateway they made. New Gateway must be opened in/on spot of previous gateway.

5. Cave isn't moving. 😉

6. Aludra and her AM may be going out scouting locations but the position she's operating from is on top of the plateau. I think this is presented once but maybe not all at once. So the location where the "firing coords" are originating from isn't changing either.

I think that's enough. My conclusion is the two AM are talking to each other. The scouting AM able to provide enough detail to the cave AM for accurate placement. Or they could have been rotating but no evidence to support.

Cerebrum appreciated the exercise. Cheers! And thanks for the participation!

On 9/25/2023 at 8:33 PM, wotfan4472 said:

I think that Seanchan was the loss if Rand got the Sharans. Because of his heritage, the Aiel would stay regardless. They also had the most contact with Shara, far more than Cairhein, so more knowledge could be gained before approaching them.

 

In fact, I have a feeling the future of the world would be totally different if Shara was under Rand's control instead, especially with the Innacal custom. It is almost like the gai shain custom, only permanent, and is regardless of channelling, which is a fascinating part of it, compared with damane and dacovale, and how they react when freed. 

 

At the end of the day, the Sharans were away to explain all the ripples that were occurring between Lord Of Chaos, and A Memory Of Light. Those ripples were Demandred balefiring entire cities in Shara, since they are direct match to Moraine's knowledge of the effect during the War Of Power, through documents the White Tower library possesses.

That is a very cool connection and I will have to remember this for my next time around the Wheel.

I seem to recall...someone...going through/experiencing a series of three ripples and feeling as if a fourth ripple would tear reality apart. Was that Faile?