Yeeeah; but because of all the fake-out deaths (Alanna, Liandrin, ect…) and then NOT following through on the deaths you set-up all season long (Mo & Lanfear). I really could care less that they killed Siuan and Loial & I’m pretty annoyed they didn’t kill Moiraine and Lanfear. But one could argue that’s very WoT of them; Jordan didn’t kill his main characters… Sanderson did … in a blaze of glorious fury!

Because they set him up to be Asmodean. Why do multiple scenes on “I’m sending Rand a gift.” “He’ll be a crappy teacher…” ect? Only to kill him a few scenes later? Sure. But does anybody watching WotTv believe Alanna can die? Girls got more lives than a cat. 🐈 Precisely; and you didn’t even mention that Siuan is also pivotal in Nyn’s development (healing stilling). And Elayne’s ascension (via Gareth Byrne).

It’s arguable that, book wise, Siuan has a larger part than Moiraine or Lanfear - but she definitely has more of a part than Maksim… so (even though I know you’re repeating verbatim what Rafe really did say) I don’t buy it. Theyre keeping characters they shouldn’t (Alanna/Maksim/Lanfear/Moiraine/Moggy & axing characters they really ought to keep (Loial/Siuan/Sammael).

I can probably get more specific about what I’m counting as “fake-out deaths” (things that would have killed in the books and in real life, but not in the show): Ep1: Liandrin gets burned and squeezed w/ OP then insta-healed; Liandrin gets stabbed twice through the chest with swords then insta-healed. Alanna is OP tossed into the side of building. Ihvon takes sword to chest in about the same way Liandrin did but dies? Why? Egwene gets stabbed by bubble of evil Rand several times. Ny gets stabbed by grayman 11 times. Perrin takes ax to the chest. Lans sword once through the Grayman kills him? Why? Ep 5: Alanna takes 5 arrows. Perrin is stabbed in the side by Dain. Dain is knifed in the chest by Faile. Maksim is stabbed in the side, sliced with a sword and takes a crossbow bolt to the shoulder. Ep 6: Egwene is stabbed several times by Shaido Darkfriends. Sammael is struck by lightning and buried under a building. Ep 7: Alanna takes massive arrow through the chest, yet again. Waygate explodes and kills everyone but Bain and Chiad. Ep8: Moiraine is stabbed through the chest with Lans sword; Lanfear has her throat cut with Lan’s sword heated up. Nyn drowns (but not really) Matt is hanged (but not really) Leane is inexplicably let go? Oh, and I missed what episode it was that Elaida was stabbed several times by the grey man who easily killed Joiya right before that? Did I miss something? Oh yes - episode 8 - Thom knicked by Balefire?

Yes. But then they established in their Tv world that a Forsaken could be killed with a heated up One Power Wrought Blade (Heron Marked). And then made a point of Lan getting it so he could potentially kill Lanfear. And then, that’s exactly what they’re “doing” in the Finale. (Otherwise Lans part in the fight is completely non-sense, unless that’s what they’re doing?) Dain took a Faile knife to the chest (and also isn’t OP healed - where’s like a brace until the plot needs him to fight). Maksim gets stabbed/cut by at least 2 Whitecloaks & then is unexplainably just better - uuhhh just because - meanwhile (Alanna was pin-cushioned with arrows and then has wilder girls heal her)! So yeah, those all count as “fake-out” death in my book!

So characters they (we think) killed this season are: 1) Loial 2) Siuan [this Rafe specially said, “shows the stakes”. Really? Just wait till I get to the fake-out death tally to show how it doesn’t!] 3) Melindra 4) Almost all the BA sisters who left the tower (except Liandrin & Chesmal?) 5) Ihvon 6) Valda 7) Sammael Am I forgetting someone? Fake-Out Deaths this season: 1) Alanna x3 2) Egwene x2 3) Nynaeve x2 4) Moiraine 5) Elaida 6) Perrin 7) Dain 8.) Bain & Chiad 9) Liandrin 10) Sammael 11) Maksim 12) Lanfear

Yes, I just added that and took off Matt since the hanging was just how it happened in the books with Min as Rands stand-in rescuer; and I remembered that in Ep1 the Grayman and cards didn’t do anything to him for some reason.

So characters they (we think) killed this season are: 1) Loial 2) Siuan [this Rafe specially said, “shows the stakes”. Really? Just wait till I get to the fake-out death tally to show how it doesn’t!] 3) Melindra 4) Almost all the BA sisters who left the tower (except Liandrin & Chesmal?) 5) Ihvon 6) Valda 7) Sammael Am I forgetting someone? Fake-Out Deaths this season: 1) Alanna x3 2) Egwene x2 3) Nynaeve x2 4) Moiraine 5) Elaida 6) Perrin 7) Dain 8.) Bain & Chiad 9) Liandrin 10) Sammael 11) Maksim 12) Lanfear 13) Thom? *Im counting it as a “fake-out” death if someone is impaled, stabbed, hung, crushed, or drown in a way that would have killed them in the books or real life but in the show is somehow insta-healed! 😉

Let me add this to the list of plot holes they better clean up if they get another season! lol They massively telegraphed and established this season that Mo has to die fighting Lanfear or Rand loses the Last Battle only to NOT kill Mo or Lanfear in the season finale. Sigh.

Upon a rewatch … a number of writing … problems … I noticed in this episode: #1 being the insta-death of a darkfriend breaking their oath (that not a thing & a metaphysical challenge as has been noted) #2 did Min knock a BA out and then just leave her instead of kill her or capture her? If Chesmal is suddenly just “back” with Liandrin in S4 that’s gonna be funny #3 did Egwene just beat Lanfear in the Dreamworld in Rands dream? #4 they killed Suian but … what … let Leane go? #5 did they beat Siuan to a bloody pulp with the power only to … hours later … behead her with the OP? Isn’t that a giveaway that #6 man, again it looked to me like Avi was channeling flaming swords (people will say “no they’re spears - I really don’t think so!) #7 as was noted, Lan’s “wardering” was once again abysmal because they wanted a Lanfear/Moiraine showdown; my man, Lan has been done just about the dirtiest of any WoT character! #8 wait, how did Lanfear get Lan’s Sword? What? Moiraine pulls it out and holding the blade side with her bare hand cuts Lanfears throat? And both live? #9 there are still a number of plots that are … hmmm … what will happen there: a) what’s going on with Elayne’s bros & Morgase & Rahvin b) what’s gonna happen with Couladin/Sevanna and the Shaido c) what’s happening with Perrin d) Liandrin/Moggy has the SAD collar d) Seanchan? e) Callandor f) Semirhage and Grandael have been name dropped but not appeared g) Verin/Galena battle? h) Matt’s got new memory problems? All that being said … if we don’t get a S4 … this is pretty sad. But if we do, there’s still a lot of explaining to do! I really hope we do!

Cause the Chosen are awesome in WoTTv. The writers keeping their metaphysics consistent? More likely than not that they’re not 😉

What I find “controversial” is NOT killing Lanfear & Moiraine. And I don’t like that part. We need to move on from them to develop Rands other relationships. Rosamund Pike isn’t that big of a deal that Moiraine can’t be killed.

My thoughts in no particular order: 1) “They be trying to do too much again, da pacing be weird” - Domon’s voice in my head. But overall not bad - definitely the best season yet & the least bad season finale. 2) The only reason you set up Sammael as a teacher and then immediately kill him is if … 3) The Chosen continue to steal the show (I hope they win in this turning!) 4) I thought Semirhage was perhaps combined with Alviarian - now that can’t be the case. 5) Matt and the Redstone doorframe, foxhead medallion, Min playing Rands part verbatim from the books. Eeek. 6) Balefire was cool! Thom and Elayne are my favorite protagonists in this turning? Weird. Didn’t like either of them in the books. 7) Off with Siuans head?! I’m ok with it. 8.) Both Lanfear and Moiraine surviving?! I’m not ok with it. Seriously? I really think they average 2 fake-out deaths an episode! 9) Rand/Couladin and the Aiel - pretty cool - wanted to see them fight though! 10) Nynaeve’s “Moses moment” - thought it was kind of cheesy. Wanted to see her fight Moggy - so was disappointed there. Overall, they’ve improved each season. So hope we get a season 4!!!

They’ve used up only 3 of their 9 lives … (it’s season 3 and at best there is 8 seasons) so I think the odds are good! 😉 Also, I think my enjoyment of the show increases exponentially when watching “with” other “superfans”. Seeing Daniel Greene react to the episode made me like it more.

I feel like they have “too much” to do … and this finale is gonna be another disappointment. Hope I’m wrong. Also … this is about the only crowd who will understand how amused I was at Perkins today …

Some of their decisions make me think that they aren’t sure they’re going to get a S4 … which is really too bad. Anybody heard if it’s been greenlit yet?

You know, I’ll still be giving this episode a 6.5 out of 10 though … cause it was decent enough Tv and there just isn’t good fantasy shows out there; as much as I didn’t like some of the stuff they did … it was twice as good as RoP.

Hmmm … well … hmmm. Here’s my initial thought dump: -Alanna must be a cat (she’s got 9 lives!) -Valda got his (cold-blooded twin teen killers those Cauthons are?) -liked the Aram moment -loved Faile’s fighting & Perrin beast mode with Ax & Hammer -really surprised there was no “wolf” or “wolfbrother moment” in the episode -what in the world happened to Lord Luc? Why introduce him and even bring him up again if he had no part? -the New Old Wisdom is super powered? Ummm and Alanna wouldn’t have sensed that before? That’s convenient: and then RIP. - most of the fighting was … ok … to be honest I was disappointed (but fight scenes … other than blood snow… haven’t been the shows strength whatsoever… so I kind of expected it). -Bain and Chiad are just fine? -Bornhalds arm is better now huh, heals fast cause of TR herbs? And finally … Brother Book is dead. And I’m not even sad about it … that’s kind of how I feel about the show right now. I hope in this turning of the wheel the Chosen win (they’re stealing the show!) Pun intended.

Yeah, hmmm … well when S4 gets greenlit and then Loial is back again mysteriously … that’ll be especially funny! But lets tally it up: Actual deaths (we think, you never can tell for sure): -Loial -Valda -The “New” Old OP strong Wisdom -A number of Darkfriends, Trollocs, Whitecloaks, and Two Rivers extras Fake-Out Deaths (or should have died by any reasonable stretch of the imagination) -Alanna (again) … sooo maybe Alanna just has 9 lives? -Bain and Chiad

Yeah, but he didn’t really do anything either. Did Jordan write anything about him before he died? Maybe I’m misremembering, but I don’t think Demandred was in it at all until the final book and kind of felt like “Ok, he came from nowhere because Sanderson had to do something with him.” But maybe that makes him the perfect choice for this turning because the show writers can change it up a bunch and people won’t care that much?

In the cold opening of this past episode I laughed so hard at Daniel Greene’s reaction of including the voice over from “Call of Duty” : Liandrin burst of the OP shot to the head “insta kill”. Does it again … “double kill”. Stomps on dudes head over and over again … “overkill”, “overkill”, “overkill”! That’s basically been WoTTv. Sooo the non-main character that I think will actually bite the dust this next episode is: Cenn Buie. [Trollocs surround him and cut him down - Alanna not present for the insta heal]. I think Valda might get bit by the Wolfbrother too; but he’ll probably be in fighting shape again with no explanation by S4!

I do think that Sammael isn’t dead and is perhaps playing Asmo’s role from the books. I find it interesting that we haven’t seen Graendal or Semirhage yet (must be saving that for season 4?) Do you think they’ll actually make Liandrin a Forsaken like she aims to be?

I love this idea for a thread! WotTv averages like 2 fake out deaths an episode. My guess for this week is that Faile gets stabbed and “dies”. And also Matt “dies” but not by stabbing … by “hanging”.

After seeing Daniel Greene’s reaction video - I’m back up to an 8 out 10! lol 😂 I think if I watched the episodes with other major fans I’d like them more. Geek out on certain scenes. He actually really liked the Rand/Sammael ending.

I reaally hope that basically from now until the end of the season Thom is always with Matt. “There’s nothing more dangerous than a man who knows the past.” is still my favorite line of the show!