I'm a few years younger than you and Guire, but for the record I'm a 48yo white cishet guy who's been reading WOT since I was a super-conservative teenager whose parents held me out of class to take high school sex ed as a correspondence course in the '90s. I'm married with three teenage kids. Demographics aren't the reason y'all are having a problem with this, it's a cultural thing - which is real and valid and I'm not trying to dismiss it. Just don't say you don't get it because you're a middle-aged straight guy. Cipher, I'm curious what vulgar words have been spoken in the show to make you uncomfortable. I can only think of a couple explicitly sexual lines of dialogue, and they don't feel more explicit than what's in the books. Seeing some of the Alanna/Ihvon/Maksim scenes visually might trigger a more visceral disgust than reading about the Greens and their warders in the books, but the show has really cut out the women breasting about boobily that Jordan threw in every other time there was a female character involved in the narrative. Bottom line, I think the show is a pretty accurate visual representation of Jordan's text depictions of sexuality in this world. If anything, it's tamer, which is Guire's original point in this thread.

Man, finally watched Winter Dragon yesterday. What a piece of crap. I look forward to reading up on how Red Eagle scammed Jordan into buying the rights to WOT so I can better focus my anger.

No duds at all, but E5 was a "back to normal" episode after E4 adapted my favorite chapters in all of fantasy. I mean, reading those chapters and then going back to Perrin arriving in the Two Rivers via the Ways was a bit of a comedown too. I'm a huge fan of the show and have never really experienced any whole episodes as unworthy. Some scenes for sure felt rushed or poorly written/executed (Nynaeve's burnout for example), but each episode in all three seasons has been so full of things that just make my love for this world bloom all over again.

I wonder if this is another mistake due to the SAG-AFTRA strike, like Sarah Nakamura described with Moghedien using the term Forsaken instead of Chosen when she kills Ispan. Basically the correction was noted but with the long pause for the strike the writers didn't make the change before filming had to start.

It's there when he exits the doorway, have a look at what he's hanging from.

This is a fair point, and it does highlight one of the big splits in the fandom. Honestly more of a shattering than a split. There are so many themes and threads to be followed in the books and everyone loves some particular points more than others. Reading the books as primarily a wartime apocalypse story is absolutely valid, it's clearly the main plot. But what makes the books really click with people are often other aspects of the story: the historical lore and magic system, any of the various character arcs, the detailed cultural worldbuilding, the politics and infighting and relationship drama. The Prime show is leaning into the characters and their relationships pretty heavily, and definitely not focusing on the gritty war story the way another team could have chosen to do. Neither approach is wrong, but I get being disappointed by the choice. I also wanna add that the S2 scene where Egwene asks Alanna for help channeling but Alanna thinks she's talking about threesomes is hilarious and priceless for Egwene's increasingly uncomfortable reaction. Great character moment that fits exactly with Egwene's all-business ambition in the books, and also using her as a stand-in for all the Two Rivers characters' prudery.

That's true, and he wants to do that because that's what Robert Jordan did in the books. https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-features/wheel-of-time-queer-universe-season-3-rafe-judkins-interview-1236173757/ "We made a conscious decision in the first season writers room to make sure homophobia didn’t exist in The Wheel of Time. I think a lot of our audience won’t notice it, but some of the audience does notice and feel it — that it is fantasy,” says Judkins. “We go to worlds different from our own, and people think about the world and the people in it differently than our own. We don’t need homophobia to exist. It doesn’t really in the books. Very rarely does anyone ever make any negative commentary about any queer relationship in the books.” I linked that same interview in another thread, and I added the additional point that presenting this sex-positive inclusive world in this way really highlights how different it is from the expectations we as viewers bring to the show ourselves, from our sex-negative homophobic world. So, you're not wrong to notice the difference at all. Part of the general queer/feminist sex-positive perspective is that sex can be whatever the people involved want it to be, as long as there is consent from all parties. A big part of traditional patriarchal "sexiness" is the lurking threat of non-consensual sexual violence, playing with fire and getting burned and all that, whether it be a jealous rage from a rival lover or a sex-hating god sending you to hell for the sin of lust. Lanfear is definitely playing the jealous lover trope and it's no coincidence that she's the most obviously sexual character. But nobody in the books outside of the Two Rivers seems to have any original sin type guilt over sex... and of course you know I have doubts about those Taren Ferry folk.

This is absolutely not true. It's driven home over and over again that the oaths have to do with what the Aes Sedai believes to be true, not what is actually true.

Didn't Jordan do this too? The non-Andoran characters are pretty sexual and look at our heroes as prudes, and sex seems pretty matter-of-fact throughout the series except for the explicit deviants like Graendal. The Cairhienin and other nobles use sex as a scheming device, but nothing about the way they have sex is really hinted to be particularly noteworthy. I guess the Tylin scenes are pretty kinky. For all the hot and sweaty flirting in the common rooms of inns and taverns, I'm not remembering anything more than the occasional implication of this or that woman's very vague talents. Imagination is a powerful tool though! Anyway, I think they'll stay pretty fade-to-black with sex scenes and the sexiest implications will be made through costuming like Lanfear's.

For preventing pregnancy, Randland has the widely-available prophylactic heartleaf tea to head off this risk. And as far as venereal disease, I can't think of a time Jordan even hinted at them existing. Despite the conceit of this being our world in the distant future, he wrote a fantasy world where STDs are not a meaningful issue.

For a book series that obviously foregrounded literal plot armor (ta'veren, the Wheel itself), it's very frustrating to see book readers complain about these same devices in the TV adaptation. I guess it was ok as long as there was Loial or Verin to murmur something about ta'veren on the page, but if we don't have a character spoonfeeding us the reminder that "the Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills" then it's some kind of massive writing failure? Nynaeve was only alive to break her block in the books because...Moghedien was startled by a random flock of pigeons! The books are full of stupid unbelievable contrivances like that, and I think most of us love them anyway. Did we ever need a debate over whether a Forsaken would give a damn about pigeons, or whether the nuances of her mental distress in that moment justify this slip? No, we never have. I get that arguing on the internet is fun for a lot of people, theorizing and counter-theorizing and nitpicking and all of it. But in the context of an adaptation of The Wheel Of Deus Ex Machina, I have zero problem letting the Cauthon girls be improbably skilled healers so the story moves forward.

Another one, can't wait for Thursday! https://www.tvinsider.com/1186398/the-wheel-of-time-season-3-finale-liandrin-cuff-sneak-peek/

Praise for this episode and especially for the whole show in this review: https://www.polygon.com/impressions/557477/wheel-time-episode-7-battle-episode-fantasy

They're definitely pulling forward the whitecloak trial and pushing back the Slayer/wolf dream arcs for Perrin. Would like to have seen some more explicit foreshadowing for those and I do consider it a miss at this point, but I'll be fully on board if they are able to make those sing in future seasons.

This is not true. There is no stedding in Tar Valon, and there is a waygate. They were built by the stedding AND the great Ogier-built cities with Ogier groves. Same for Manetheren

I hope we see this starting ASAP

Yes, exactly. It wasn't TAR, it was his own dream. Edited to what I originally typed, "dream" Hopper.

Yes, I wish there had been any wolf moments other than dream Hopper this season. A big miss for Perrin's arc, despite a lot of quality character development for him in other areas.

I don't see a red doorframe in the E8 preview, but agreed

WAFO! I'm with Digific, I think they're planning to go there. I don't foresee Rand and Min interacting in the show at all until well into S4 (knock on wood) at the earliest, but I love not knowing what happens.

I mean, what do you think the point was of Thom talking to Mat repeatedly about how the boys are tugging on the Pattern and he wants no part of it -- and then he finds himself completely swept up in it? It's not "luck" exactly, but it is explicitly the theme of ta'veren getting what the Pattern needs.

As Ali on the Wheel Takes podcast is fond of saying, unanswered questions are the lifeblood of television writing. Answer a question definitively and any plot points related to it can quickly become far less compelling. Leave people to wonder and speculate instead, and they get really interested.

Hills Boobs Bracelets I love that Thom followed up the song with the history lesson on the shackled man to connect it even further.

Totally agreed with this. A big issue is that WoT doesn't have a consistent tone the way LOTR does (haven't read ASOIAF). Jordan was just so good at writing different perspectives, and a Mat chapter feels different from and Elayne chapter which is different from a Graendel chapter, etc. Even in TEOTW, we'll have legit horror scenes with Ba'alzamon terrifying Rand in a dream chamber built of human skulls, and then Rand will wake up and be grumpy with Moiraine or something really mundane and silly.

Not sure where to post this, but here's a teaser clip from episode 6 of Lanfear and Moiraine having a conversation. https://awardsradar.com/2025/03/31/exclusive-wheel-of-time-season-three-clip/