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Everything posted by Cipher
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The woman who played Faile almost looked exactly like the Min from my imagination. May be a little younger.
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I have always thought an animated series would suit this series best, but might be difficult to get adults to sit and watch such a thing in the west. Additionally as you pointed out western style doesn’t suit itself to that self talk as well as Anime. May be with the right creators it could work. I really like the art style of Arcane and think that would be a perfect fit for WoT.
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Why not follow the books more closely?
Cipher replied to phanooglestixs's topic in Wheel of Time TV Show
S2 and S3 changed Mat from a smart ass to a dumb ass. Sanderson did that some as well. IMO I prefer how Barney Harris’s Mat was playing than the later actor—no shade on him as I could see Mat in his portrayal, but some of it seems direction and writing. -
I do feel Wheel of Prime was probably not judicious with its budget, but I have no proof other than the final product and casting Pike as the lead. A big problem was lack of extras. Extras are supposed to be cheap, yet we had very little of them. ?! Were they giving extras nice paychecks, so that they couldn’t afford to have many? The world felt underpopulated and the battles were lack luster. Modern AI could potentially fill that gap with convincing CGI IMO. There may be conflicting opinions in the faults in Jordan’s work that need to be shored up for a definitive adaptation, but I think a poll on DM could give us the list things of things that need changing 🤣. E.g. Rand’s fight with Turak, the roll your eyes battle of the sexes, the battle in the sky, Moiraine’s and Thom’s relationship, etc etc etc.
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After fully reading both the cancellation and most recent ratings threads I am very pessimistic. The value of the IP was set so high at $250M I can’t imagine many other companies wanting to try to tackle such a story with such a steep investment. That may be the cash out for those 2 guys. Not much more may be coming from the license. AI could save the money on production, but would there be mass apeal from viewers. Probably not IMO.
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Is WoT too sprawling, does it have too many characters, too much internal dialogue to be adapted? As big of a critic of Rafe’s/Amazon’s adaptation that I am I feel they proved it could be done IMO. Every time they followed Jordan’s script I felt like it was possible. I don’t know if that would have achieved an audience necessary for continuation though. In the cancellation thread the discussion turned to speculation of using AI to bring WoT to video through computer animation. Would such a thing be soulless? We have endless ways of spending our entertainment budget, but could such a thing get a new audience? Please no criticism of Rafazon in this thread as that is well trodden territory.
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Rafe’s Uno seemed like a turd—how is a hero of the horn? He showed no battle sense when he was ready to die fighting the Seanchan for no purpose. But honestly his death was pretty good. I liked book Uno, but TV Uno could be killed and was the “someone must die to show how ruthless the Seanchan are” example.
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I love Egwene’s story arc in the books. Her battles for the White Tower are epic and a high point for Sanderson’s books. Though her elevation to rebel Amyrlin is one of the hardest plot points to suspend disbelief. But there was never any idea in my mind that Rand must be set aside so that Egwene can be elevated. Why?!
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I think Uno was victim to this line of thought as well. First Rafe took the likable Uno and made him contemptible and them killed him unceremoniously.
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Only if we keep feeding it media and stories that say humans are evil monsters that the universe is better off without. E.g. Prometheus
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Oh I think S1 had louder complaints about Nyn overall, but ya that ending was crap too.
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Over correction on Nyn. Rafe heard the criticism and then took away her big moments. He got it wrong again. She wasn’t even the same person as book Nyn at all. Terrible adaptation.
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Nobody said women were not strong in Jordan’s story. But the men were strong as well. Rafe made sure to tell us the men were nowhere to be found on Winter’s Night. When I watched S1E1 I was grumbling how the men were pathetic weaklings. Nynaeve was the only target of “Who is the Dragon” fake out. They were pointing to Mat and everybody with an ounce of modern story watching knew it wasn’t him. They made no solid attempts to implicate Egwene or Perrin. I think you have it backwards. Who is the Dragon was not to be an interesting story arc, but rather an excuse to elevate Nynaeve in strength in S1–one thing obviously Rafe was interested in. Alanna was very prominent in the forest battle episode.
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I feel you just want a convenient scape goat for this gay-feminist version of WoT failing. The audience has spoken. Wheel of Prime was rejected by the vast majority of Wheel of Time fans. Let us list S1 faults, because that is where it was rejected. 1. Casting RP as Moiraine and making her the main character. 2. Poor world building. Every nation has same metropolitan population and same sexual ethos. 3. Not a single strong male character in all of the 2Rs. How the hell is this a society of legendary military prowess? Women and men both want strong male leaders and protectors. Perrin a cry baby who kills his wife. Mat a thief. Rand a do nothing complainer. 4. (3 part 2) From the get go it was obvious who was wearing the pants in this world. The woman doing her Popeye impersonation with her beer mug and pipe. The Women’s Circle. Egwene’s mom putting “the mayor” in his place—if a similar interaction plays out with a man putting his wife in her place it is to show that he is an authoritarian jerk, here it is world building. “Women are in charge.” 5. Ninja Nynaeve 6. Rage healing—death fake outs 7. Making Alanna a main character 8. Too much warder story 9. Not enough Rand story and development …….
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Not even close. If the “who is the Dragon?” plot was removed and everything else was the same the show would have died the same death. From a business standpoint Rafe’s goal should have been to win the book audience. Tell Jordan’s story well enough to please that giant fan base. Jordan’s story is so good that many new fans would have been made in that telling. Rafe wanted women to rule and men to drool. That was stupid.
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S3 was better as it followed the source closer than the first 2 seasons and proves the line “changes must be made to make adaptations” as a catch all to justify the changes as untrue. IMO some of the changes subvert characters still in S3 like Aviendha besting or at least matching Lan in combat. A wet behind the ears maiden of the spear besting a 20 year veteran, hero of legend. Bah. edit: I just jumped into this thread and posted before seeing that the show was cancelled.
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I don’t believe we will get a S4. I think viewership fell off—starting higher in S1 than S3 ended up with. I have no data to support that, just my guesstimation. The show should have tried to tell Jordan’s story as true to the source as possible; attempting to win the giant book fan base. They would have won some non-book fans in the effort. Instead they alienated a large part of that fan base and had a much smaller audience as a result IMO. It seems just like Star Wars and Marvel change in tone and focus to appeal to “modern audiences.” edit: wrote this before I saw that it was cancelled.
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What would you have started the show with?
Cipher replied to Blackbyrd's topic in Wheel of Time TV Show
Actually when I read EOTW I didn’t read critically and didn’t realize Rand was the DR—in my novice high fantasy reading. I knew he was the protagonist, but figured he and the Dragon were different people. I need to read it again and see how blind I was. I would like to listen to Rosamund Pike’s reading. -
What would you have started the show with?
Cipher replied to Blackbyrd's topic in Wheel of Time TV Show
I actually love the cold open with the reds chasing the mad channeler. It is good world building, sets up the audience with a lot of questions, and shows the madness. But for the sake of the series the prologue would have been best. I wish they could have used Logain as the distraction, “we are hunting Ta’veren and female channelers, because the Dragon (Logain) has been reborn and we need heroes.” Don’t drop the Logain arc until the episode 6 or 7. -
Hell no. Mat is the most trust worthy with secrets. He doesn’t tell anybody anything he shouldn’t. You can trust Mat to the end—guaranteed. He is a scoundrel, but isn’t stupid. They make him as borderline idiot in this series and it makes me a little mad.
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S3E2:A Question of Crimson - Discussion
Cipher replied to SinisterDeath's topic in Wheel of Time TV Show
“Yo, what is up with plot holes?” “Oh? Well it is Choose Your Own Narrative with a type of magic you can imagine.—err uhm Magic!” -
Also regarding Moiraine. She is supposed to be deeply in love with Siuane. How about she is sexually loyal to Siuane—nope, may be I should go do that.
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You are right it is culture. The sexuality in WoP changes tone and feeling of the material. No language per se—my example of language was a guy in the locker room at work. Depictions of sexual intimacy are generally what I am complaining about. Allana and her 2 warders rolling around in bed (early S2 episode) is both a ridiculous portrayal of sex and used more like a middle school tee hee hee moment. Not anything to do with the plot, I guess it is character developmemt(?). Such things were not described in the WoT in the slightest—the closest being Avienda and Rand in Seanchan land. Many of the characters depicted in the show really are not who Jordan made his characters to be. No relationship between Rand and his 3 loves, Min prolly doesn’t swing that way(?). We have girls hopping on top girls with no developing of relationships with Elayne and Avienda—it is just titillating girl on girl action IMO. Nynaeve is not her motherly, know it all, school marm prude from the books. I like this Nynaeve, but she is a different person. Galad is not himself either, I would argue neither is Gawyn. Moiraine debating if she is gonna hook up with a Wise One she doesn’t know. Sex with randos at a drop of a hat. I like that they showed the sweat tent, and how they kept the nudity to a minimum.
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Sex shown in any movie or show feels awkward to me. In Wheel of Prime it changes the tone and feel of the story in a worse way IMO. I am in the same demographic as Guire. I don’t watch shows that have this type of attitude toward sexuality, but my love of WoT has me here. The idea that Jordan didn’t show STDs means they didn’t exist in WoT is silly. Did he ever mention when a character relieved him/herself? I guess the people in WoT don’t have to sh!t. In GoT it was mentioned (books not TV show for me). I have never witnessed co-workers or acquaintances IRL talk or treat sex as this show does. Except a random guy in the locker room say something vulgar that took him down a few pegs in my estimation of him. Friends groups can be different ofc, but guys who just try to get with every woman they can and treat them poorly are not my kind of friends. And woman who jump from guy to guy seem miserable to me. I know it is different in the LGB community. Are lesbians known as being open and promiscuous as gay men? My limited understanding is generally no. What does a lesbian bring on her second date? A U-Haul (full of her stuff).
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He did kill those dark friends in TDR even though he didn’t “know” they were dark friends, but they were there to capture him. IMO it was Lews Therin’s influence knowing these people were after him/Rand. But after more taint than S2 Rand has had.