It’s nonsense. I think when Valda says it, it is because there is a misconception on his part. AS do not need their hand but many learn to weave using their hands and it is a bit of a crutch for them. But not required. We actually see that with Lanfear, who doesn’t need the physical drama to channel. Moiraine, on the other hand, must interpretive dance to channel. One can only guess what would happen if she lost her hands. But Rena’s comment is pure stupidity. Every single visual we have had of the Seanchan channeling is that it is highly choreographed and motion-based. Even the Suldam make motions in concert with their Damane. The line is just one amongst millions that was written for effect without concern of the actual lore they themselves have created.

That was my initial thought when I watched.

You and I are often at odd on this show and it is pretty clear that we just don’t understand each other. I’m curious about something, though. Set aside the fact that you’re enjoying the show - that’s completely subjective and you’re completely justified in liking it as much as others are justified in not liking it. Setting that aside, as a book fan, are you disappointed that so much of the story is being changed, rewritten, or made up for the show? You can be and still like the show. I’m genuinely curious because we definitely don’t get each other. The bottom line for me is that I think Robert Jordan is an immeasurably better writer than Rafe Judkins and his team of inters and wherever I see them changing the story or making their own things up it melts my brain as how much lesser it is than the source material. The show is not made in Jordan’s voice, it is made in Judkins’s, and it is worse off for it. Let me be clear that Judkins is the figurehead but I wouldn’t be surprised at all if some of the changes came from some suits in an Amazon board room who wanted to make WoT the next GoT.

Nobody here is basing their opinions of the show on audience numbers. @Elder_Haman said that audience numbers show that the show has improved. I pointed out that there is more to interpreting the scores than simply the aggregate review number.

I know it is all about money, but this decision is also like shooting yourself in the foot; ad breaks destroy the integrity of a show. When you are actually making the show yourself, you are doing two things. First, you are building in to your show distractions that break the immersion. Second, you are forcing the showrunners to create a show that has natural ad breaks; which can be jarring.

Was Ishy’s intent clear? I think the line could have worked no matter what; he’s saying “you did what I wanted you to do” whether than means killing him or accelerating or resurrection or whatever else he had in mind. Ah well, I big loss, I just think it would have be pretty cool.

Audience score went from 60% fresh after season 1 to 82% fresh after season 2 because only 20% of the audience bothered to stick around and rate season 2. I think the fact that audience scores for season 1 are out of 5,000+ reviews while season 2 is only 1,000 is way more damning to the popularity of the show than it is positive. IMDB is the same story. Season 1 ratings per episode range from 7k-12k reviews; season 2 ranges from 1.9-3.2k reviews per episode. The 3.2k reviews was for episode 1 and they go down from there. Going further in to it, audience scores on Metacritic are 6.4 with with 466 reviews for season 1 and 6.1 with 74 review for season 2. Even on Amazon itself there are 31.5k reviews for season 1 and 1.5k for season 2. I don’t think audience reviews are the argument that you want to make right now.

Should Ishy have said “I win again…” before he started to crumble?

Yes, you bring up Rand seeing Elayne for the first time and I did like the introduction. Regarding Nyn not channeling, I agree that it’s nice to see her failing, but they just showed her challenging 2 episodes ago for the dumbest reason. I wish they had been more consistent on that front. All that said, they got her right this episode (well, other than pushing the fletching through the wound). As for Rand getting healed by a Novice, at least it was a Novice who had far more training than most Novices.

That’s what I thought; they shouldn’t have been cheering, they should have been terrified. If they were cheering for the liberators, they actually should have been cheering for the Whitecloaks since from the ground, they appeared to save the city. As for then”fight in the sky” that everyone sees in the book, now it’s just a fight on a tower and it’s likely that the prominent image is of a woman fighting the “Dark One.”

A lot of times the writing in this show resembled the old “telephone” game as each time some lore or plot was passed on to the next writing committee something was lost. What they need is a continuity expert. Was it weird that the people of Falme were cheering the dragon banner? I don’t remember their reactions in the book.

Rand has no development. He drifts from scenario to scenario seemingly befuddled as to why he’s there. He severs all attachments after season 1 so that he doesn’t hurt them and is apparently in love to start season 2. He’s constantly on his back or on his knees and has to be saved by Moiraine, Lanfear, Verin, and Egwene. He’s taught nothing yet we’re supposed to understand that he know how to use the sword (though he doesn’t really demonstrate it) and he goes from having no abilities to wielding the power both like a scalpel and with massive, deadly effect.

Super creepy, yes, but you still need the visual of Ishy. Maybe a resurrection in Sharon Gul (forgot the spelling, sorry. I’ve been doing the audiobooks this year) where we see a glitchy Ishy like in the dream and he either morphs or gets sucked into a new body? It will certainly need some exposition over it.

I wonder how they will visualize it, because they will want non-readers to easily connect the dots. Maybe a scene where we see Ishy die and crumble interspersed with a scene of ashes forming into a person?

If that is the reason then it reeks of gross incompetence. They had to cobble scenes together so they whipped up a scene really quick where characters are given lethal wounds from a lethal weapon to fill some story gaps? Don’t buy everything they feed you. I’m sure COVID hurt production; I’m sure losing a main actor hurt production; those things didn’t force them to create nonsense. They could have filmed the same scene with a regular dagger and kept themselves from the issue. Someone chose to film it with the ruby dagger, someone green-lit it, someone edited it, and someone chose to release it.

100%. The excuse is nonsense and I cannot comprehend people buying it. The show didn’t write and film itself during lockdown; decisions were made and one of those decisions was writing, filming, and editing a scene where characters get stabbed by the ruby dagger. That’s not a mistake and it has nothing to do with covid. This whole time the writers have played fast and loose with lore and twist it to suit their needs when the plot demands it. The ruby dagger is one of dozens of example. Is anyone tech proficient. I really want a gif from Monty Python and the Holy Grail where the guards are watching Lancelot run at them from a mile away and then he’s instantly on top of them and stabbing one. And then I want “Rand” over Lancelot and “Ishamael” over the guard. As I was watching it, I kept thinking “they aren’t going to have her free herself, are they? They can’t, because it will make the a’dam so much less horrifying.” For a second, when she was staring Renna down, I actually thought she was going to channel it right off herself. I agree with you, they completely broke the lore of the a’dam and made it much less terrifying. Yeah, I get that that’s how they are in the books but they clearly aren’t that in the show. I’m trying to figure out how her visions work since she kind of botched this one.

Ingtar ended up meaning absolutely nothing to this story, so your theory has a chance.

Was Min’s vision consistent? Based on this episode, we have to conclude that a) Min’s visions are metaphorical and not literal, since what she saw was not what happened, and b) Min misinterprets her visions. I don’t care if either of these is true, but it is consistent with how her visions have worked so far this show? I really can’t remember now.

This is an incorrect statement.

I will admit that I didn’t anticipate it devolving into nonsense. I never agreed with your stance but I thought they would at least have a logical resolution, not the self-contradictory idiocy they gave us. Did anyone have “you remove the collar by removing the bracelet” on their WoT Bingo card? Shame it didn’t work like that two episodes ago… Not to mention that the Nyn sub-plot was absolutely pointless because they learned nothing and accomplished nothing.

No, it does not ring true. Half this season was made-up nonsense but they will continue to tell you that that’s how you adapt a book. Then some fans will chime in and tell you how every scene was absolutely necessary because there is no other way to tell the story visually. It’s all mediocre fan fiction.

Well he had to have one on Winternight; can’t kill your wife with a hammer to the gut. This show is ridiculous. Absolute contempt for the source.

I see, my bad. I forgot those scenes where Perrin was been trained to sword fight.

You’re literally trying to argue that it, in fact, makes complete sense we’ve seen Perrin sword fighting more than Rand. In no universe, book or TV, does that make sense.

I’m leaning even more towards no doorway after Episode 8. The issue, then, would be what to do about the characters who go through them later (vague for spoilers). Being that they are big enough characters on screen not to do them like that, they need a different resolution.