52 minutes ago, JenniferL said:

Man, I do not know how I feel about this. This is probably one of those cases where not having read the books is an advantage because that was a ton of changes and some of them really took me out of the story. 
 

How about you? 

This is deifnitely one case where I wonder how the non-readers will feel about all of it. I suspect it hits enough to not be a dip but as a book reader I agree there were some things that made gave me scatch my head- as I know some important points aren't exactly pronounced. And there were of course a few obligatory tv eye rolls but such is life

31 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

I'm mainly disappointed that we didn't get to see Rand unleash some whoop ass on the Trolloc Army, saving the girls for a change of pace.

Agree. I think they somewhat missed the opportunity to display the crazy amount of whoop ass that is the Dragon. Yeah he killed the dark one but I don't think it quite met the moment

All in all the spectacle of this episode was really quite good. Agelmar was riveting and I do quite look forward to more Uno in the second season. 

I really disliked the cold open- the concept was great and as was some of the symbolism but the execution, dialogue, tension just fell flat. A case where there probably needed a few details in previous episodes to make this shine

Ishamael actor was a fantastic choice- loved it, but another place where if the dreams had had more  relevance and dialogue, more tension in the past it could have hit much harder

The Amalisa scene is great TV but it is definitely TVish in that it relies on us to not overthink it which means it could be done better

Spectacle was great, tension was pretty good, Fain's monologue was good even if it felt like someone should have said it 3 episodes ago. I like the mystery of where Rand is going even if I wish they had discovered that second artifact at the Eye. All in all finale was something of a mirror fo the season- pretty good but some uneven things that could have elevated. Defiintely looking forward to season 2 and for the love of the Ligh Amazon add 2 episodes or add 10-20 minutes to each episode because there were so many instances where those few minutes could have made season 1 shine much brighter

edit: oooohhh and one moment where Josha totally nailed itas he first embraced the one power- the way he moved in that one moment was magnificent- was brilliant to watch

1 hour ago, Dead Warder said:

It was as if Lan was seeing some of him in Rand, a father teaching a son some wisdom. It won't be captured in the show but it will forever in the pages. This was a very good call out, nicely done. I'm gonna go back and re-read that again.

It always seemed more of an older brother type thing to me but definitely Lan & Rand had a sense of being kindred in spirit thing going on- though I tend to think season 2 will have some Lan, Rand & Perrin in Fal Dara. However, I do agree that it was a missed opportunity this season. This lack of subtle character beats is probably my main complaint about season 1. Another instance is in this episode is Agelmar not being fond of Aes Sedai- not a big deal but him being short with Moraine is a touch wrong because he would treat the Aes Sedai who has Lan as a warder with the utmost respect. However, Perrin's grunting during the EF4 conference was a totally spot on and subtle character beat so it's something i definitely think they can get better with as seasons progress

28 minutes ago, ForsakenPotato said:

I still think the dialogue could be improved and feel more natural in a lot of scenes...personally I can overlook CGI issues because most effects will look outdated in a decade anyway, but good dialogue is forever. 

Right- for instance at the end 'this is the blight' should have been 'this is the blight- the blasted land' Not a big difference but those three extra words just would have added so much pop. Yet, that the show is that close to getting the tone spot on is actually a testament to the quality of the immersion.

Really enjoyed the episode though, it was all the feels. As a book reader the birth/death scene is something I would say that they did really well and is one of those moments that would make me buy a drink for anyone I happen to meet involved in the show. Was it exactly right? Who knows but it was really well imagined and one of those powerful scenes that does well filling in blank spaces of the book

20 minutes ago, dorotea said:

 

This is an extraordinary urban American take, and I say extraordinary because being Russian implant in US for a very long time I can spot these kind of things and appreciate your PoV while at the same time laugh my head off.  Lets just say that I listened to a few Eastern European reviews of the show (Russian, Polish, Check youtubers) and all of them are very sarcastic of the shows take on the diversity, saying as much as 'this is how a San-Fransisco-an would imagine a rural settlement in the middle of nowhere mountains'. See, in real life, as in real life out there outside the developed world's urban areas there are generally no diversity the way you imagine it. Zero, zilch, nil diversity is a norm for rural areas because these folks have no financial means to travel or to mix until they go full scale immigration, but that's another story.

See, in real life- when the Dragon Reborn broke the World there was generally no diversity the way you imagined. Cuz, ya' know, the Dragon Reborn and the One Power are totally real.... not speculative fiction at all so things need to be strictly ethnocentric. Yeah, this is not a criticism- more a preference of POV

26 minutes ago, Maximillion said:

At this point - emphasised by episodes 4 , 5 , 6 - the show seems to be about Rafe Judkins and his experience of being read the books when he was a child.

I think that is why the story telling actually does seem very child like.

I think it is an extraordinarily selfish and somewhat narcissistic  interpretation for a Showrunner to make for millions of people.

 

One can dislike the series as much as one wishes but this... is more of a you thing than a critque of any noteworthy mention

Thought it was a very good episode. The spectacle and the drama played into each other nicely. At least there was some sort of exposition before just deciding to go into the Ways but it was still pretty quick. Still there was a smoothness to this one that is reminiscent to ep 4 and they both stand out to me. Overall though it feels like there are 15-30 minutes of television that went missing that could have really set up a lot of stuff in a lot cleaner manner. The 8 episode limit is really straining a book that would have been hard to make in 10 episodes

Edit:

Sophie Okonedo also killed it as Siuan. Even if you are show skeptical it might be worth watching just her moments. Totally nails it

6 hours ago, pyrusmole said:

I'll defend this.

Let's assume for a moment that Loial knows a bit about Two Rivers dress and cultural practices (like the braid). I know that's a big assumption but just grant it to me, okay? So he runs into Nynaeve in the Tar Valon library and it passes his mind "She's dressed like a Two Rivers person." I'm pretty sure the first thing book or show Loial is going to say is something along the lines of

"Hello there, I'm Loial son of Arent son of Haren. You have dress like a friend of mine. Are you from the Two Rivers as well? Oh you are, and you're a wisdom? So you're a healer? Fascinating. This reminds me of ... Oh yes my friend. Would you happen to know a Rand al'Thor, he's an Aielm... {Interrupted by Nynaeve}

Just like leaving Edmond's Field in ep 1 I'll grant it as it is a TV show with a lot of ground to cover but the abruptness of it is something any book fan would note and most any casual critic would note. They could have taken a single extra minute or two to set this up & instead we get the 'I have tower access' after the fact. The Rand-Lolial intro almost certainly warranted a minute or two or even just a few words more

Sidenote- also I seem to remember that the cosmopolitan people of Tar Valon welcomed Ogier while it was the more country city of Caemlyn that were frightened. No big deal but I would have liked to keep that detail 

Also, now knowing about the whole lead mourner idea in the final scene is about I'm willing to upgrade the shirt tear from terrible to just too much. I enjoy that they are leaning into ceremony and ritual in this series but those things of themselves already have a strong gravity. The shirt tear moment is the moment the hand starts to feel heavy in a episode where half the cast already shed tears. Contrast this to the way the funeral procession was handled at the start where they let the implication, the atmosphere itself speak rather than seeing the almsot certainly inevitable blaze that was too come. Ending on a shot of Lan screaming in rage/sorrow seems like it would have been a noteably stronger choice. Also, why is Lan leading this? Were he and Stepinn very close at one point? Is it because Lan is the oldest warder? Not a big deal but these  details would have been nice to have and not taken but a few seconds

I felt the episode was basically a summation of what the show has done well and what the show has not done well up to this point. The overdone stuff really stood out as overdone while the good things really sang true

There's the true WoT swearing

There's Nynaeve talking about Two River Folk

There's Lolial absolutely nailing it- when he was talking in the background I nodded 

The Logain scene was sweet- surpassed the books here

There were some beautiful shots

The Forsaken intro was a nice if a touch on the mumbly side

Then you had the Steppin story- which was good and interesting but also overly time consuming all things considered

I'm still puzzled about Lolial finding Nynaeve. Very big 'Let's just leave EF' energy 

You had Valda whose actor is great but at the same time the whole WC gang ar a touch too close to being absolutely over the top- the whole 'I can break vows' line was not great

I'm okay with Lan not being made of absolute steel but- please, please, let us never see a scene like that final scene again. I can live with the primal screams and even the overdone funeral, but the shirt tear was all sorts of terrible. There were a lot of tears this episode and I guess the final scene was supposed to be embody that but I think it just came across as too much

It does speak to the immersion- to the sets, scenery, costumes, music that despite all the awkwardness of going from abrupt to super patient with the plot the episode still managed to be gripping. 

And yes they did mark time finally! Unfortunately it was in the most boring way possible. Though- marking time is really gonna be more applicable to the first season. Once we get into Hunt things are much less breakneck, much easier to streamline

18 hours ago, DojoToad said:

They couldn’t get the attempted jail break of Logain right, and you think the battle at Falme will be amazing?

 

I didn't think it was that good, but now that you -an unreliable critic of the show- have disparaged it I have to assume that it was better than I thought it was

And as has been repeated ad nauseam- season 2 is likely to better, as is the case for the majority of television shows that have ever aired. That's without even considering COVID protocols which likely impacted the 1st season of shooting. Will Falme be amazing? Can't say for sure but if they can even pull a 7/10 pull off it will likely be enough momentum to get 8 seasons of 8 episodes. Hopefully it's even better, and that translates to a few more episodes or an extra season or 2 along the way

5 hours ago, Gothic Flame said:

Rolling Stone review after six episodes

 

The inevitable comparison of GoT should be noted. 

Thanks for sharing this, I read this a week ago and I to would like to bash it. One of the big criticisms is that the characters feel like 'flat-ciphers whose fate feels irrelevant' after 6 episodes- as I know that after 6 episodes with a large cast  I expect fully fleshed out characters. And there fates are of course totally irrelevant except for the heavy hand the show has been using to show that characters fates are tied to the fate of the world ? 

Quite literally nearly one half of the article is either talking about GoT or the budget of the show. When one state's that they find characters boring in the midst of writing a boorish one note review then it's a pretty clear sign of a pretty poor critic. For someone like this a live action WoT in this day and age would never get higher than 4 stars even if it were pulled off with pristine perfection- part of that is that though Eye does an admirable job character development it stands alone among the books in being a journey driven novel and a lot of critics prefer character driven things. It's my understanding that even at the time this was a critique of Eye when it was released

So even though this critic does hit on some prevalent criticisms including my biggest complaint -that they just show characters arriving at point A then appearing at Point B w/o any sense of time spent- it's still done in the most glossy, surface way imaginable.

Interestingly, the article he wrote before this was in praise of the Cowboy Bebop adapation...

All in all one thing I've been glad to see is that most of the 2 or below star reviews I've read from critics or inside the fandom are not that sound or well written while many of the 3, 4 or even 5 star reviews I have read have produced some good critiques while also managing to be thoughtfully written.

I think the condelence I would give to big WoT books fans is that unless this was animated there's probably no way to deliver a proper live action adaptation at this point in time. Today it's Perrin killing his wife and making the DR a mystery- replace Rafe with someone else and you'll have found some other visual that's unappealing or plot points that are unappetizing when you're working from the premise of only having 64 episodes.

So our despair shouldn't be that we won't see a season 3, it should be that season 2 and Falme will be amazing and that Amazon will refuse to say- 'alright you can have the 80 episodes you wanted Rafe' as that's probably right around the minimum to really hit all the notes. 64 episodes is surely gonna leave my mouth puckering at more points than I would prefer. Though for sake of art I think all WoT series should go either 101 or the technically correct 114 episodes

Good episode that nicely framed what it is to be stilled- building the world in a more natural way than the first 3 episodes. I would say there are some aspects that were overdone but the spectacle, which I found quite good, is hard to argue against. One shot I did enjoy was when the camera did something of a freeze frame on Alanna- that was a good effect and it that kind of shot that feels very WoTish. An episode that was mostly not in the books but felt very much like they could have taken place in the books. 

I'll complain again that they're doing a poor job of marking time- Thom is there and gone in a seeming flash w/o seemingly imparting very much knowledge but it's not some terrible thing

3 hours ago, flinn said:

Tossing Bran out of the window in ep 1 was a hook. Everyone wanted to see Jaime/Cersei get theirs for it. Then we basically go into travelogue mode and the book (and the show) were kind of boring until Ned gets his head chopped off, then we are back to "I cant wait to see them get theirs" mode. Books 2 and 3 were good, 4 and 5 are average at best.

The reel of losing what many assumed would be a main character did take awhile

This is almost certainly my top criticism of the series through three episodes and it is what I feel to be a weakish hook and reel. Book hook was Ishi-Lews with the reel being Moraine raising a wall of flame and rolling Earth to one handedly stop 300+ monsters. The reel being even more clever that Mat shouts the old tongue which calls back the Manetheren story which itself is a sort of secondary hook

TV hook is the battle at the Inn and the reel is the somewhat hokey mystery of who is the Dragon Reborn. To me it's very TVish and doesn't really inspire- but I am foremost a book person so TV/movie producers generally have a special place of scorn in my heart ? Now could I imagine a world where there is a two hour premiere that possibily begins with the creation of Dragonmount and ends with everyone fleeing from a great danger into the possibly greater danger of Shadar Logoth? You bet I can imagine it, which makes me sympathetic to book folk who aren't feeling it. I do not really have much sympathy for book folk who harp endlessly on things like: 'Nynaeve snuck up on Lan (did she really though? There is a possiblity Lan simply wasn't afraid) so the show is horrible' 

Also my Whitecloak thoughts are that the writers see as I do that properly pulling off Falme is gonna be a huge point for the show and so to have Whitecloaks as full fledged villains will help the viewer get invested in their cataclysmic defeat. I also don't wonder if we'll see forkroot tea being a more well known commodity or perhaps even a Whitecloak trade secret

6 hours ago, Starganderfish said:

Awkward yes, compelling I’m not so sure. As a book fan I’ll continue to watch and hope for better but I’m certainly not compelled. I may even just switch off for a month or two and tune back in when the whole seasons out and binge the rest. 
And I seriously question whether a non-WoT fan will feel at all Compelled to keep tuning in.
Consider other epic/big budget shows like BSG, GoT, Witcher, the Boys. Most if not all were a lot more engaging three episodes in. Gone are the days of 20 episode seasons when a shaky start can still be overcome. We are just shy of halfway through the first season and the consensus from critics, fans and new viewers is basically “meh, it’s okay.”
That doesn’t bode well when your boss has forked out untold millions for rights and per episode costs hoping for the next GoT - ending up with the next Legend of the Seeker doesn’t look great. 

I mean you might not find it compelling, and that's fine, however many folk who have watched it with non-book people have said that they enjoyed it and has someone who has known these books for a long time I found the beats in this show compelling enough. Definitely could have been better but not bad at all really

Also- having just finished watching GoT season 1 a couple of days ago the first three episodes don't size up badly to at all, especially when you consider GoT is very much a TV book while Eye and most of all the WoT volumes have a more movie feel to them. Seriously folks- GoT season 1 was not some marvel. It wasn't until 2 or 3 when they really started nailing it and that is mostly the standard for most tv shows. 

Personally I expect that it will remain somewhat uneven while getting better as they keep shedding exposition until they get through Eye- Hunt is a much smoother, less breakneck paced book with one of one of the better finales. Will adapting Eye end up hurting the the continued success of the product? Could be, but it remains in the realm of speculation rather than certainty

Overall I thought it wasn't bad at all and a pretty good watch through 3 episodes. Heck, if they had managed to dial down some of the over the top moments whilst adding in some Lan training montages I might even stand up and applaud

Does some stuff pain me? Yes. Did the 'hey, let's just go' seem suped amazingly rushed? Yes- but all TV will inevitably cause pain as more often than not authors treat their readers with more ?respect? than TV/movie writers treat their audiences. The slow burn events of Eye would almost certainly have been better and the one scene that was powerful was Rand walking around dazedly looking for help for Tam is actually central part of all the books (PTSD) However, this is a world where people love the masked singer so any one familiar with TV should not be that surprised they're teasing out the Dragon Reborn because a TV watcher is different than a book reader.

I would expect the first season will be somewhat choppy anyway- Eye had such incredible pace, with cool thing after cool thing popping up that I wouldn't wonder if JJ Abrams hasn't to tried to marry the book at some point. It's going to be tough to adapt in the best of times. I think it will be more about how they pull off the Great Hunt and Falme.

One of the biggest changes I don't see a lot of talk about is the way Trollocs & Aes Sedai seem common knowledge in Two Rivers and the rest of the backwaters. I don't know if it makes a huge difference but it's a marked change from the books.

The Moraine & Lan scene probably serves a larger purpose of adjusting viewers to what the show will have overall as I expect to see some bare butt and breasts once the Aiel are fully introduced but probably not much if any in the way of graphic sex- then again there is always Graendal

So overall not hearing Mat's orginal battle cry before the dagger, or seeing Perrin meet Elyas does hurt but it's nowhere near dealbreaker enough to stop me from appreciating the beats they're getting right. I remember reading one positive review who said something like- 'awkward- but compelling' that's about where I'm at, there's some awkward campiness but as a general fantasy fan rather than a book fan I feel compelled to watch on