I just assumed Laila started blacksmithing because she married the blacksmith apprentice, not that she was another blacksmith who Perrin happened to marry. 

20 hours ago, UOweTamASword said:

You're the one "moving the goalposts" or just not reading what I said. I said they haven't thought things out as far as Jordan did. Note the emphasis. Not that they haven't thought things out at all. Two very different measures.

That's simply silly.  They've thought it out to the end of the story, same as Jordan.

5 hours ago, Mailman said:

You have all forgotten the most important rule 

 

Never get involved in a land war in Asia

 

Not sure the Aes Sedai by themselves could have made much of a dent in the world wide food production Eladias suggestion for Elayne to pick the one farm she could do the same for probably means that she could not manage many (she was also I think considered strong in the power) and with less than 1000 Aes Sedai at the start of the books thats not massive coverage.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the AoL scene with the farming there are Ogier, Nym, and Aiel... but no Aes Sedai involved.  Aes Sedai made the Nym, but not directly involved.  Just like weather control was via the Bowl of the Winds or similar Ter'Angreal. 

8 minutes ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

 

All roads lead to Tar Valon? 

 

I honestly, do not understand, what ya'll think of as "core". 

IMO the Prologue is definitely "core" because it immediately introduces us to the significance of the Dragon, that the Dragon is LTT reincarnated, that the Dragon killed his own wife/family, that male aes sedai went insane and broke the world, that the Dragon has a male-channeler nemesis, that Dragonmount is tied to the Dragon,  that the Dark-one wants to break the wheel of time, ect... all from the get-go ... which is ALL very, very much so "core" to the story. And a non-reader who is watching the show - could literally read just the Prologue and then go --- OHHHHH I get it now... (but we may still get the Prologue in the show - which in that case - I would think it fairly clever of the show writers to give us the Prologue in the Season Finale- some writing irony there). 

 

The "Who is the Dragon" was the core question of this TV season (does anybody disagree with that?)- it's definitely NOT "core" in the books (I think we are agreeing on that point? I honestly do not understand a fan who would argue that "who is the Dragon" is a "core question" in the books).

The ideas and themes that the prologue set up are core (the things you mentioned), but I don't think you need the exact scene to set up those themes (especially not as a prologue to the series - it's not structurally core as per being a prologue).

I really hope we get it as the cold open on Episode 8.  I think that scene will really set up those ideas and themes.

The question of "who is the dragon" was an in-story question in TEotW.  It was one of the 3 boys instead of 4/5/6 however many options the show had, but it was a question (even if it was bloody obvious because of who the POV characters were).

Prologue isn't core, and it sounds like we're getting it (just in a different time in the story).  The ideas/seeds that the prologue contain are core, but they aren't all just there in that one scene.

Eladia isn't core. Also, no guarantee that she's gone (she just isn't in season 1, and she's definitely not core to Book 1).  There are aspects of her that are closer to core (WT split), and there are aspects that I really hope they bring out (people doing horrible, bad things, and going against Rand who aren't darkfriends).

Telling it as an ensemble is a storytelling change, but not a core plot change.

While Rand was the main character in TEotW, for tWOT book series as a whole the EF5 are all main characters. 

22 minutes ago, UOweTamASword said:

 

Hmm, I actually thought it was an interesting twist having Aran'gar infiltrate the Aes Sedai camp while channeling saidin. What did you not like about it? I'd wager you'll get your way though on that, the show seems to have very different opinions from the book on what and how male/female channeling differs.

 

On top of that I believe they're trimming the Forsaken from 13 to 8, and Balthamel and Aginor are no doubt near the top of that list.

 

 

As I said before, if they can brush off Sanderson, they can brush off Sarah (a WoT superfan?). So you can see how this reassures me not at all. All this makes clear to me is that Sarah is not a direct part of the writing process (in that she's not in the writing room) and no other expert is either (or they wouldn't need to consult her as such).

 

That they consult with someone on things like this after they come up with them wouldn't even assure me if they actually had veto power (which they clearly don't). After all, we are dependent on the writer's room (no WoT experts and some non-readers) to determine what is a change and whether its even worth paying their consultant to consider. Or at least I hope she's paid!

 

I'd be interested to hear whether Sarah thinks the WoT books are great as-is or if she'd like to edit them in certains ways if given a chance (and how). That would illuminate a bit what kind of expert opinion they're occasionally including.

Your position as stated was:

Quote

In reality you have writers who are making stuff up that sounds good and, no, I didn’t call them stupid, but have they thought things out as far as Jordan did? Absolutely not. So why make the changes, when you’ve got something better?

I'm simply proving that your position as stated is incorrect.  They have thought these things out.  Sarah's entire job is to think these things out.  They may still make the change, once they understand the implications.

Now, you want to move the goalposts and say that no changes should be made because Jordan's version is the best.  That's an entirely subjective viewpoint.  Changes are required to get anything from book to print.  There are lots of parts that are going to get cut.  I'm not going to miss Perrin's PLOD to get Faile back.   

22 minutes ago, UOweTamASword said:

And regarding "consultants" - we already know from Sanderson that they've ignored their most qualified consultant in certain instances, if they can brush Sanderson's opinion off they can brush anybody off. And from the way he talked (my interpretation), they brought him in the process when the scripts were almost entirely complete so it really sounded like he was there to make minor tweaks.

On 12/8/2021 at 3:16 PM, AdamA said:

I don't think it looks much different than the farms from Last of the Mohicans, taking place in the mid 1700s. Biggest difference is they don't yet have firearms, but that is true in the books as well. Not because the technology itself isn't known, but because the Guild of Illuminators guards the secret so closely. There are also arguments in many fantasy universes that the existence and usage of magic holds back technological progress. The Atha'an Miere, for instance, would have been greatly incentivized to invent steam engines and motorized rudders, except they didn't need to because of their windfinders. The Aiel lack a lot of practices you see in real world desert societies with respect to cultivation and selective breeding of crops that don't need much water and herding of animals, presumably because the dreamwalkers can just find food for them since wild but not domesticated animals show up in tel'aran'rhiod. Nobody needs to develop construction technology because the ogier just build all the large structures.

Plus, while this may look like the medieval era, it's actually closer to a post-apocalyptic future.   The technologies available are very variable (printing presses and paper, for example, way more common and earlier than other technologies).   

4 hours ago, UOweTamASword said:

In reality you have writers who are making stuff up that sounds good and, no, I didn’t call them stupid, but have they thought things out as far as Jordan did? Absolutely not. So why make the changes, when you’ve got something better?

 

Except that they've explicitly said that they think these changes through, and have consultants that they ask about the long-term implications of changes.

On 12/18/2021 at 2:02 PM, Spiritweaver1 said:

So after my quick watch of E7 here are my preliminary findings.  If you need to read the definitions in the initial post:

 

Plot Holes

No farms around Fal Dara.  How are they feeding everybody?  Note I floated a separate post on this topic.

 

The blight.  The definition of blight that applies  is a thing that spoils or damages something.  In this episode we go from an essentially desert landscape to something that looks like a mangrove swamp.  That is a plot hole my friends. 

 

 

Plot Foolishness

Lord Anglemar's prideful behavior.  No Shenarian leader  is going to turn down the Dai Shan and a known Aes Sedai help against shadow spawn.  They should have stuck to the book plot here.

 

Not sure whether Anglemar's sister should have an Aes Sedai ring or not.  I am putting it here pending clarification of show canon.  In the books the Aes Sedai are very particular about who gets them.  As far as I know only the queen of Andor has one outside the Aes Sedai.  This may be a plot hole but for now I give them this rating because you can't give the ring to everybody and have a positive ID of accepted or full Aes Sedai.

 

Moraine leaving behind Lan.  I can swallow her leaving the rest although I would be bringing Nyn who has demonstrated the ability to weave a shield and there are no signs of a block yet.  No way is she leaving him behind.  

 

Anyway does anybody else have any they spotted or want to argue these?

 

Farms: it's a fortress, and it's winter.  Meh.

The blight: it's an evil magic place.  Not a plot hole, an aesthetic choice by the production team (that I'm not a huge fan of, but I'll accept).

Angelmar's behavior was odd.

If Angelmar's sister was accepted, she would have had the ring in the books.

Moraine leaving behind Lan.  If she expects to die?  Maybe?  I wasn't a fan of that choice either. 

16 minutes ago, ArrylT said:

Again not really a meme - just me goofing around

 

 

On the 12th day of WoTmas

My true love sent to me
12 Trollocs drumming
Eleven Fades piping
Ten Warders a leaping
Nine Battle Ajah dancing
Eight Unos a swearing

Seven Red Ajah a gentling

Six Yellow Ajah a healing

Five Aes Sedai rings (five Aes Sedai rings)
Four Borderlanders

Three women who love him

Two battle scars

And a Dragon Reborn in a chora tree
And a Dragon Reborn in a chora tree

 

 

Feel free to recommend a line improvement if so desired

Wouldn't WotMas have 13 days? ?

On 12/14/2021 at 11:48 AM, Spiritweaver1 said:

Another example has already been discussed that the Ways are opened with the one power.  Okay but now we are gonna need explanations for the Fades and Trolloc's using the way without channelers, and  Perrin and Loial for that matter.  All of it unnecessary.  Moraine could have simply used the keys.   The series team are already deep in the woods and there are gonna be lions, wolves and plotholes oh my!

This discussion happened in my family after watching Ep 6.  My theory is that there is a waygate-opening ter'angreal (or many, actually).  Which would explain how Ogier normally use the ways and how the Trollocs/Fades use them too.  If this ter'angreal ends up looking like a 3-pointed leaf, all the better. 

1 minute ago, Sabio said:

They say what they believe is true, so they assume anyone but the Dragon who tries to face the DO is going to die.  It doesn't mean they are always right.  The prophecies say the Dragon Reborn must face the DO, it's easy for them to assume any mere mortal will die.

Exactly.  Otherwise determining who was the dragon would be easy. Just try to say each name "The dragon reborn is <gak>.. okay, it's not Egwene, let's try Mat.  "The dragon reborn is <gak>...."

IIRC, Lan had found signs of small bands of Trollocs hiding in the woods near Caemlyn, showing that they were preparing an ambush once the EF5 left town. 

Only DF and Fades on the road for Mat and Rand.

3 minutes ago, swollymammoth said:

Priorities for this first season should have been as follows: 

1. Develop Rand as a character. With such limited screen time available, he should have been the primary focus. 

2. Make Mat, Perrin, Egwene, and Nynaeve interesting without hogging screen time. Sow seeds for development in future seasons while still ensuring they are likeable. 

Just saying that RJ2 specifically said that they were going to be making it more of an ensemble production from the beginning.  The focus wasn't going to be on Rand.  Personally, I think it works, because the story as a whole is an ensemble production in the long run in the books.  

42 minutes ago, Beidomon said:

I’m happy for people who can look past Loial’s fro and phony prosthetics and just enjoy him as a character. I can’t get over how fake his head looks. I don’t give a fig about the height if they could just make him look real.

I can get over the looks (the eyebrows are definitely wrong) because the actor just exudes Loial.  He does a great job. 

40 minutes ago, swollymammoth said:

It's this simple: Have Moirane explain the bond. Later, have a scene where an Aes Sedai is killed and have our characters pass the body of a Warder, his own sword sticking out of his chest. Squeeze another mention from Lan, maybe a conversation with Nynaeve where he explains his own feelings about the Bond to her (also develops their relationship). Oiala! That's it! That's all you have to do. People aren't goldfish. We can remember things, and this would be enough across 2 seasons to justify the Bond taking on greater importance in season 3. 

 

Kinda just seems like writing 101. But then again, these days it seems like most writers think their audience is stupid, so I'm not surprised they chose to just beat us over the head with it. 

It's book writing 101, but TV writing?  Have this conversation, and then this one, and then say this.  Blah blah blah.  People were complaining about Moraine's Manetheren info dump as being too much talking.  While I think they took too much time with the Stepin arc, it's way better than a ton of exposition later. 

Also, you have to remember that it's impossible for book-Lan to come to screen.  Because book-Lan for me as a reader is going to be different than book-Lan was for you as a reader.

This is Lan as Daniel Henney sees him.  It's obviously going to be different than how book-Lan was for me.  Fine, that's the nature of the beast of an adaptation. 

33 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

what make Laila take this pose? 

She was going to hit the Trolloc.

2 hours ago, Maximillion said:

 

The friend was a character not in the books too.  So a friend and a ceremony not in the books so they could show Lan having an emotional episode.

Stepin is in the books. 

Prediction: cold open is the blood snow. 

17 hours ago, Jaysen Gore said:

And I guarantee you that if "Who is the Dragon Reborn?" is the question that drives the first season, "Who is Selene?" is the one that will drive the second. IMDB.com will help them in keeping that question alive. It's an industry tool, not TMZ. 

It's even more an Amazon tool (since it's owned by Amazon)

12 hours ago, Harad the White said:

For example, that she is being controlled by a Forsaken. 

People, may laugh, but it's a bit better than the only extant alternate explanation: she want's a divorce and the Trolloc raid was a great excuse.

Or that while Laila wasn't a darkfriend, we should be on the lookout for small details like this about other people who may turn out to be darkfriends?

1 minute ago, Deviations said:

Wood the book Lan have represented everyone's emotion at a funeral?  Don't think so.

If he felt it was his duty?  Absolutely.