Brandon has summed up my issue with the changes to Perrin:

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Biggest thing he and I disagreed on was Perrin's wife. I realize that there is a good opportunity here for Perrin to be shown with rage issues, and to be afraid of the potential beast inside of him. I liked that idea, but didn't like it being a wife for multiple reasons. First off, it feels a lot like the disposable wife trope (AKA Woman in the Fridge.) Beyond that, I think the trauma of having killed your wife is so huge, the story this is telling can't realistically deal with it in a way that is responsible. Perrin killing his wife then going off on an adventure really bothers me, even still. I have faith that the writers won't treat it lightly, but still. That kind of trauma, dealt with realistically and responsibly, is really difficult for an adventure series to deal with.

He killed his wife, it will be hard to have Book Perrin after this.   And, I do not know enough at this point to have faith the writers will recover from this.

12 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

Whoa there, cowboy! I didn't say that "Perrin is wrecked" because I don't think he is. And I don't think it will "take something incredible to salvage him" because I don't.

 

Perrin did not seem like a neglectful husband or like he was uncommitted to work. There does seem to be some backstory of his that we don't have full knowledge of. Whether its a bad marriage, or an unplanned pregnancy, or some lingering jealousy over something.

 

?? I said from what we have seen so far, most of those these could be possible and we have nothing else to go on - for me, right now, he is not Book Perrin - it does not ruin the show, but changing him is ruining him for me - so wrecked is short for he is no longer the character I loved in the books.  And it does need "something" to salvage Book Perrin.

2 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

My concern is that the degree of difficulty with the changes to Perrin's backstory is greater. They need to pay it off. If they don't handle it well, Faile is not going to work at all. And that relationship will become more annoying that it was in the books - albeit for different reasons.

I concur, Perrin is wrecked and it will take something incredible to salvage him in the show.  From what little has been revealed, Perrin appears as a neglectful husband or in a bad marriage, not as committed to work as his wife, the list of issues just goes on and on, I really hope they have a plan and it brings Book Perrin into the show, cause right now he is AWOL!

I agree with the title of this thread: It ROCKS!

I agree with most of the positive takes on here and like the way they used the river when Egwene was pushed in - Nynaeve: Trust the river.  Egwene struggles and has a hard time of it until she surrenders and then it gets quite and calm.  Kind of like using a hammer to make the point but I think it will be used well in later episodes especially for those that have not read the books.

I think some of the issues with the quality are related to comparing this to the fully realized vision of GoT,  When it first launched, the reviews were less than stellar and many much harsher than those for WoT. 

I am confident given Time, this series will be looked back on as much better than GoT and will come into its own.  I think about some of the upcoming twists and turns and think they will be real home runs.

Even though this is the positive thread, I can not let the character assassination that was perpetrated upon Perrin go without comment: It is a real travesty what they have done - it does not ruin the show but book Perrin does not exist and I do not believe ever will.  RIP Book Perrin.  He is my favorite in the books and it is sad he is not being included in the show - but, the series will still be good - just a bit different. 

And there is the possibility I am wrong and they will pull off a miracle and bring Book Perrin into the show.

Yes, you missed her; Egwene is riding Bela and even asks her "What's wrong Bela" when they are about to enter Shadar Logoth - I think that is when though it all runs together . . . .

I liked the scene where Egwene struggled in the river but once she stopped fighting everything was better.

I saw all those producers, hmmm too many cooks spoil the dinner, maybe too many producers spoil the product.

Perrin being married and killing his wife does not work at all for me.  I see no possible way to salvage his character.  

Otherwise, it is great.  Few other minor quibles, nothing major. I will just pretend he was never married, seems to fit with the script, so far at least.

I thought it funny that there is/was all this mystery about who the Dragon is, making major changes to the story, background etc to have this great season long mystery, and my wife who has never read the books, says it's ***** and she knows this during the Moiranes Winespring Inn scene.  So much for really keeping the mystery and hooking non readers.  Everyone knows just like in the books, so why all the stupid convoluted revisions?!?

I know I yielded earlier, but one other nugget - GoT viewers were split right at 50/50 between those who read the books and those that did not, so, does my wild guess at 50% still seem ridiculous? ? 

PS: thanks for making this my topic and getting it out of the show review section ?

13 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

Book fans that actually know about the tv show make up 1% of all book fans.

So the contention is book fans will not even know the show exists and yet it is going to get millions of viewers that are not book fans?

I withdraw my humble suggestions that a lot of book fans are watching the show.  I bow to the superior knowledge and math of  SinisterDeath  & Apoc81  

Let's all get back to our thoughts, complaints, compliments of Leavetaking!!

5 minutes ago, Apoc81 said:

No, your math doesn't work. Of those six million, at least half don't care, and maybe a tenth are real fans.

I don't know why it's so hard to understand that you are not the target. We are a tiny minority. No, 6 million readers are not rushing to watch this. How many of those 6m even finished the series.

 

Plain and simple, shows like this are made to draw in the casual viewer, not the hardcore fan. And the casual viewer will not have your complaints.

As I stated you could be right, but the books sold a total of 90 million, so that is about 6 million per book, so I would guess close to 6 million read all 14 books .  And I stated closer to 50% than 5% and especially right now.  But, yeah you are most likely right.

7 minutes ago, Apoc81 said:

Prime video viewership is Massive. The Boys and Expanse both proved that. And most people already have it free with Amazon Prime.

 

I don't know what it will take to make some of you understand that this show is made for someone new to the series. They are not, and never were going to cater to book readers, it is rightfully designed to be watchable by anyone. You are a tiny piece of viewership, they know book readers will watch, its new fans they want. They did not make this show to please book readers.

The Boys had average viewers of 8 million per episode.  Still think it is hard to believe WoT readers will be closer to 5% than 50% . . .

15 minutes ago, Apoc81 said:

I mean, I definitely disagree. We are a tiny percentage, the rest will find it the same way they find other streaming shows. 

It's well shot. There are a very few small problems, but anyone hoping it follow every beat and storyline in the book are being ridiculous, and non book readers will not have the same complaints as obsessive fans.

You could be right.  But, GoT was at its height, getting about 14 million viewers, WoT has about 6 million readers, I presume most will watch, meaning if book readers are only 5%, the series will be pushing something over 100 million viewers - so I am going to stick with readers making up closer to 50% then 5% ?

Just now, Apoc81 said:

How is it longer than it should be? Perhaps to newer readers it was obvious, but at this point in the book, back in 1992, we certainly did not yet know Rand was the dragon. I don't get why you're against them playing it out that way for new viewers. It's not just us watching. We're probably 5% of the total audience.

The hope is we are 5% of the total audience, but I would guess right now we are well over 50%, and the balance have been dragged into this by the 50%.

1 hour ago, Hooptie said:

So my wife, who has never had any interest in WOT till now has declared this morning that she IS going to watch the show with me tonight. Not may but IS. 

 

That way she can try and understand why I'm so obsessed with it. 

 

Maybe if the show lives up to its potential I can get her onto the books. 

I am in a similar situation - my wife is even making special WoT food!  But after reading the early returns, I think it could get ugly real fast, but who knows, the reviews are mixed maybe a wind will rise in the Mountains of Mist . . .

8 minutes ago, themann1086 said:

I've curated a group of reviewers whose tastes tend to overlap mine. If most of them like it, I definitely will. If only some of them do I probably will. If none of them do...

How do your curated group of reviews feel about WoT?!?!

From the Forbes article linked by WhiteVeils :

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Yes, I get this is all very binary (as is Dune) and we live in a world in which an increasingly non-binary understanding of gender is emerging. But this fantasy series hinges on this dichotomy, however dated it might feel, and to me it makes more sense to just stick to the original’s binary gender magic rather than, er, reinvent the wheel as it were. There are other fantasies that can be adapted that make no such distinction or that embrace a more modern understanding of gender. It’s just a story. It doesn’t have to reflect the politics of the moment.

This sums up my thoughts pretty well.  I know this has been beaten beyond death and I get the "keep the Dragon identity secret, helps with the girls, blah, blah, blah" BUT, you could still have the Dragon secret amongst 3 and keep the core un"tainted" - it is just a story after all. 

I suppose it probably will not affect the story or my enjoyment too much, but it does irk me!

There is some harsh criticism for Wheel, but lest we forget, Thrones was not a mega-hit immediately, at least not with the critics:

https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/581658/game-of-thrones-season-1-negative-reviews

In a few years, I assume most of the Wheel's negative reviews will be looked back on about like these for Thrones.

Elder Haman, I have appreciated your optimism over the past few weeks and appreciate the counter point(s), but I just do not see how it works, at least for me.  Skipp asked why I felt that way and I shared. 

I will wait and see - glad to here the reviewer was wrong about Mat - still not a fan of the changes to Mat's background, but not as character breaking.

*Unrelated, but this demonstrates the level of attention and care some reviewers take - I guess, as has been noted, reviewers are not that trustworthy . . .

Skipp - Character breaking may be too strong - character changing.  If Perrin has a wife, he is no longer the person we meet, if he kills her or she dies, that is a devastation that fundamentally changes everything about, about meeting Faile, getting married, etc, etc.  I am not sure how his master work scene with him working in the forge even works - maybe it is the same, but somehow a widowed man doing that does not seem "right" or nearly as impactful and that was one of my favorite chapters.  I don't know, maybe he is married but not really invested with his wife, so she dies and he just goes on this grand adventure, or maybe that becomes his motive for leaving - he can not stand the place any longer and does not want to be reminded of it.  Thus, his return to protect it is now changed and in my mind ruined.  It just so monumentally different and again, not reflective of the core of his character.

For Mat, children?  How does he go off with this rascally attitude?  Are they with him?  He just up and leaves?  How I can not root for him at all.  I want him to go back home and care for his children.  His whole attitude and emotional state have to be completely and fundamentally changed.  Or again, maybe kids are just accidents that happened to him and he is ready to be done with them, like much of our modern society and he wants to be out and about having fun and not care about or live up to his responsibility.  In either case his motives and actions are changed or I can only despise him for abandoning his family.

Maybe they do it well and the changes are OK, or they are just rarely mentioned and we can just ignore them and pretend we still have Perrin and Mat from the books, I can not see how this works - I think it changes too much, but am hoping I can get past the damage or just pretend and still enjoy the show.  Color me skeptical!

Yeah, I have read almost everything on here and I am not buying it - at least in writing so I guess I just wait to "see".  I was hoping it was false as in my mind it seems character breaking, as in they are still called "Mat" and "Perrin" but they no longer have any relation to those of the books.

This is probably worse than the possibility of a female dragon, which I know has also been beaten to death - I will most likely have to pretend the additions to their respective families do not exist, but, again, it will be a wait and see. . . .

The changes made to both Perrin and Mat, seem character breaking.

Is this something that ruins them or do they somehow make it work?  I can not see how it can work. 

Or if it does not work, is it not referred to that much and something I can just pretend does not really exist?

What about the level of language?  Did they use book curses or is there a bunch of modern F bombs and such?

What about Sex & Nudity?  Safe for family viewing?

What about Violence & Gore?