OK i will try this again, some people hate this show, and they believe they have reasons to... well I believe we have reasons to love this show so here are mine:

1: seriously the dreams!!! 

2:  the existence of a WOT series!!!  WOOOHOOOO!!!! 

3:Once i found them... the extra animated shorts rock!!!!

go on tell me more!!!

Ok so what do you think is positive,  the set of emmonds field rocks!!!!  The power fight rocks, the characters fit and I hate that I kind of like that perrin kills his wife that never was....  frankly it makes the rest of his story a hell of a lot more realistic...  and he did not so much as kill her as she got in the way, and I saw a fan say maybe she was a darkfriend trying to kill him from behind...  but no I think they just created her to die...  though if they made it more it might be generally better....  

@WalterKohl
I merged your new topic into this existing topic, and removed instigating language.

12 minutes ago, NinjaPowers975 said:

Yeah the serpent rings are just ugly IMO.

Same here, but then I think most "Cool" and "wow" jewelry I see praised is pretty ugly so my opinion is not worth much...

8 minutes ago, NinjaPowers975 said:

and the serpent rings.

Yeah...  I was surprised how bulky they where...  in my head they were just snug to the finger, these seem bulkier and like they would be a pain in the backside to wear...  Of course I don't like flashy jewelry, but I guess this is more bling for the show and will make great merch....  ? 

3 hours ago, swollymammoth said:

Lol Okay, dude. Don't watch the show. Ignore all the LGBT anime fans who cite Simoun as instrumental in their own awakenings. Ignore all the straight people who will tell you that they became more open minded to real life LGBT people as a result of watching this show and others like it (Revolutionary Girl Utena comes to mind). Ignore my own personal lived experience. Just brush it all under the rug. 

Okay dude, you are the one who tried to play off "straight dudes looking at lesbians doing stuff" is not the basis of pretty much every straight porn mag out there...  sure....  I am sure you can find lots of guys who thumbed through Penthouse and were like "wow I really feel for those lesbians milking that cow"...  

3 hours ago, NightWolf said:

to defend our passions and convictions and we're battling it out across a plethora of battlefronts, both in real world and fantasy fiction. We are at a permanent impasse.

I find it interesting that some people see it as a battle to defend their passions and others just see it as existing and having to put up with those whose passions are that they should not exist....  You have no idea how or if the changes they made will make the TV series compatible with the messages people got rom the books because you haven't even seen it.  You have attacked it with hyperbole and "passion" based on half quotes and your pain at someone attacking your beliefs...  so while both (or all)  sides should relax and come to a better understanding, its kind of hard when one side wants the people from another side to not exist in public in any way...  

11 minutes ago, swollymammoth said:

I mean, I can't really do anything about the fact that you have no idea the place that Simoun holds in anime history, but suffice it to say that you would have to be totally ignorant to reduce the show's popularity and influence to mere fetishism. 

 

That being said, I realize that not everyone is as much of an anime history nut as I am, so I guess it's understandable. 

yes how could i have thought this was at all about straight guys wanting to watch lesbians play together.... (from the top five google results for reference)

1 hour ago, NightWolf said:

The Jordan / Sanderson universe was heavily grounded in a stark male / female exclusive landscape that barely referenced any concepts of trans / non-binary. For many that have read and enjoyed those novels, we accepted the WoT universe for what it was.

Not for many, bit perhaps for you and those you talk to, and so you have decided that your opinion is the truth to be defended by fire and stone...  A lot of others saw the stories as a huge discussion on the roles of male and females and how arbitrarily they are given, and how in the end it didn't really matter, if any one of the EF5 died or failed in there actions the DO wins, they are all the Dragon if you really want to take it that far, but you are stuck on what is between the legs of people who don't exist so you can have a story that confirms your worldview... 

1 hour ago, swollymammoth said:

Because it's true? Idk what you want from me here. Nothing I said was targeted. Anyone who can only relate to characters who resemble them is immature and should not be catered to. That includes white people, rich people, straight people, men and any other group you can think of. The connection we're supposed to feel from fiction should transcend all of that stuff and reach to the core of the human experience. That's more inclusive than any sort of tokenistic pandering. 

I don't know.. maybe because you are trying to equate straight guys watching lesbian porn-adjacent as somehow equal to them actually identifying and empathizing with LGBT+ people....  And your response clears up any confusion about what you really think...  

20 minutes ago, themann1086 said:

The She-ra reboot was amazing. Even outside of the "Harold they're lesbians" thing, it's just an incredible story about trauma and forgiveness and learning to love yourself and... look I could literally go on about this for a while but I won't, so instead I'll point out that She-Ra and the Princesses of Power was a smashing success with both critics and audiences. If Wheel of Time got even a fraction of that success it'd be excellent.

Yeah when people say these reboots are a failure, I think they mean to them personally so it must be a failure to more...  You are correct about the reception to She-Ra, it has been amazingly good overall.  

Just now, Borderlander said:

I'm doubling down and predicting a massive battle against Logain before he is first captured.

Since they are bringing him into the start of series more (compared to the two times we see him in a cage in the first book...), maybe they will see Cadsuane take him down... did they cast her yet? 

1 hour ago, Wraith235 said:

you dont have to look much further thant Star Wars, He-Man, She-Ra, LoS and all these other reboots and adaptations that fans have basically disavowed

Its funny when people talk about He-Man and She-Ra as coming from some bible of lore... they were created to sell toys, that's it, not some fantasy story told in comic books for ages that then became a cartoon...  Hey I love them, but when you include them in some sort of argument about how people ruined a franchise because they adapted them to the times you kind of lose your argument since they succeeded in the only metric that mattered to them, they sold more toys to new kids... who will complain about the changes made to another iteration in 20 years...   

It is interesting to me that most of you screaming the loudest about the change see the very existence of trans and non-binary people as some sort of political stunt to be injected into a show and not reality...  perhaps the change was good for the very reason that it makes you confront the reality that Trans and non-binary people do exist in the real world and are not some political plot by your enemies to emasculate you...  Or more likely its all to "woke" to look at reality and you would rather just grumble into your pillow about how everything is going against you...  

10 hours ago, swollymammoth said:

Tons of straight guys had no problem getting invested in Simoun, an anime where nearly all the main characters are lesbians. 

um wow, a bunch of straight guys like an anime that features a bunch of lesbians... how ground breaking...  I mean really who would have thought that straight guys would like to read and look at a bunch of hot (I am assuming here) lesbians doing stuff.... so obviously they are so woke it hurts... 

in case it wasn't obvious, please read this in a sarcastic voice...   

It is also entirely possible that what we are seeing in the trailer is not what happens in show reality... it could be that they are feeling these emotions and they cut to what he is feeling on the inside but everyone else still sees the stoic outside face while he has this struggle internally and we get to see it as viewers of the scene not participants...  

On 9/11/2021 at 8:02 AM, CaddySedai said:

Tho if somehow they repurpose Paradise City as Tar Valon’s theme I probably might snort so hard milk shoots out my nose.

I will now be forever disappointed if this is not the case, though maybe it would work better for Ebou Dar..... :-) 

1 minute ago, TheMountain said:

What about Mat and all his past lives? Are some of them going to be women? Are we going to have a sexually confused Mat? Now *that* is going to cause some major body dysmorphia.

Did the books every say that his memories were his past lives or just the memories that the Alefin and Elafin (sp?) had harvested and shoved in his head?  

1 minute ago, swollymammoth said:

It's been 3000 years since the breaking and 1000 years since Manetheran. That is plenty of time for racial homogenization to occur in a tiny, isolated population like Emond's Field. It only took 6 generations for people to turn blue in the Appalachia mountains, and 1000 years is a lot more than that.  

I edited to change my dates, and EF is one town in the two rivers that has many, and it is not cut off from the out side world, people leave and come, like Tam going off to war...  and they are not known for incest in EF unlike Appalachia...  not a completely isolated town, not enough time for homogenization.

Why do people have a problem with the ethnic makeup of EF?  Its only been about a thousand years since the breaking, and less since the fall of Monetheron...  and that was a major world city that was probably fairly multi-ethnic... of course EF would still have mixes of races, evolution just doesn't work that fast...  

Edit: checked dates, so its been about 35000 since the breaking and a bit over 2300 since the fall of Manetheren...  still far to little time for evolution to make everyone the same...   

Edi again: 3500 not 35000...

I hope we see Thom before the third episode though!!!  

2 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

They look more like dogs than I'd prefer but that's not too bad

Those could just be the dog stand ins they have before processing...  they need to be a bit more stringy but i am not going to complain!!  

2 hours ago, Tim said:

I’m interested in this dichotomy which has come up a few times here but rarely so clearly.

 

It presupposes that we can all agree on what is escapism and what is a lecture. That in turn implies a certain “we” who have a certain set of characteristics, life experiences and perspectives.

 

Implicitly, the “many of us” would feel like a show which features a diverse set of characters (not just ethnically but also in terms of gender and sexuality) would be a “lecture” -  but isn’t that a function of how those viewers react to the show and what they focus on? If that presentation is something that the viewer either is used to in their life or thinks is a broadly noble aspiration, why would it be received as a lecture at all? Why would it be any more jarring than any other feature of the WOT world?
 

Conversely, consider the position of a young fantasy enthusiast who happens to be trans, but basically never sees people going through what they’re going through in the books they read, who picks up the WOT books. In this world, the distinction between men and women is absolute, and although there is ultimately a character who is in the “wrong” gendered-body, (a) they are an evil character; (b) they were put in that body by the books’ elemental big baddy; and (c) they eventually seemingly learn to just accept and adapt to their body.

 

What should that reader take from WOT? Will it be escapist for them? Or will it be received as a lecture? A lecture from RJ that (a) they don’t exist; or perhaps (b) they shouldn’t exist; or perhaps (c) they are evil and perverted; or perhaps (d) they should just learn to accept and make peace with the sex and implied gender of the body they are in?

 

If that reader does manage to treat WOT as escapist and not a lecture, then I think they have managed a feat of internal dissociation rather more impressive than the purported “many of us” who are worried about Rafe saying he is a feminist. Would they not find it easier to “escape” into the books if they didn’t have to go through that process first?

 

I’m not advocating for a particular outcome with respect to these issues, or saying that books fans are not allowed to be dubious about the show changing aspects of the books. But I do think this apparently easy binary between politics and escapism is actually way more complicated than we often choose to acknowledge. Ultimately, every decision that is being made here could be received as being in the service of escapism or of a lecture - including the decision not to change something from the books. How we each choose to interpret those decisions says as much about us as it does about the show runners.

This....  much better than I could have said...

39 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

There we have it. People merely existing in media = a Lecture.

 

Thank you, some times the most obvious explanation is blank to those who use it.... 

49 minutes ago, Wassup said:

I questioned the diversity in the casting of the EF5 at first.  The WoT world is very diverse and character appearance is something that is used in the plots throughout the books.  It does not make sense that such a backwoods, excluded from the world local like Emond's Field would have a diverse representation. 

I agree with much of what you said and don't necessarily disagree with what you are saying here but wanted to address this particularly...  we have to remember that this is the last age (as opposed to some ancient time), and the breaking of the world was only 1000 or so years ago, evolution doesn't work that fast, if at the breaking Monetheron (SP?) was filled with multi ethnic people, its not surprising that only 1000 years later the remnants show that same multiethnicity...  

17 hours ago, Agitel said:

 

It still hasn't even been confirmed that he'll start out with a wife.

This is kind of what I am hoping for, I can see him losing his "betrothed".  That may not have been in the book but it is a bit out of the real of possibilities that the women's circle hadn't already had someone picked out for the  young blacksmith apprentice...  As long as he fails to save her as opposed to actually killing her...  he never gave into animal fury in the books, even when he killed the first time it was to save his friend Hopper, not out of animal rage...  

27 minutes ago, WOTnerd said:

Wait, this video seems to make me think it will be Egwene that is born during the Blood Snow? Is there another explanation for the casting of this baby?

Baby's are interchangeable on screen at that age...  i wouldn't read to much into the sex of the baby actor/ actress.

1 hour ago, DaddyFinn said:

About Laila Aybara.. check the three pictures

 

 

 

Not really a fan of the change, but it does make some of his later issues as described above less annoying....   i can see it as more believable as well and in the long run it is a relatively minor change (even though its huge in Perrins life)

Edit to add:  I hope if they go this route that he doesn't actually kill her just fails to stop her from being killed...