7 minutes ago, Ryan al'Thor said:

So then he doesn't take Callandor, doesn't become Car'a'carn, etc. Those prove he is TDR. I was really looking forward to buying Callandor when merch comes out.

Not sure what you are trying to say here, but in the books people didn't believe he was the Dragon even when he completed some of the largest signs, and remember pretty much  NO ONE knew there was a connection between the Aeil/Car’a’Carn and the Dragon Reborn….    The idea that the show will stretch this out for the viewer longer than it was for the reader is not surprising, it’s actually a pretty good way to keep people interested.. 

If you think about it, the question about Rand being the Dragon was asked by people in the book pretty much till the end.. heck even people in Tear questioned it after he took the stone...  we know who he is because we are in the authors head but the idea that people were still questioning the idea that Rand was the Dragon Reborn is all over the books, just as side notes of people of high and low rank and not any of the main characters making statements...   Even Pedro Nail thought he could be the dragon reborn, or that the Whitecloaks  would be the Dragon Reborn if I remember one of his discussions with Morgase....  

8 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

In the books, False dragons are male channelers that go insane, and in their state of madness, declare themselves the Dragon. I don't recall Fain stating "unlike other recent false dragons, this one could channel".

 

Presumably, no sane person would want to declare themselves the dragon.

In the books not all male channelers were considered false dragons (Thoms nephew for one), i am trying to find the line from about them not all being able to channel but the fandom site agrees:

"False Dragons were rare until Gorin Rogad declared himself in 995 NE. Then three years later, in 998 NE, Logain Ablar rose to power. Three more rose in 998 NE, though of these three only Logain Ablar and Mazrim Taim were capable of channeling."  (https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/Dragon#False_Dragons)

So I think that line was there if more than two of us remember it....  I had forgotten it though...  

29 minutes ago, Jackdaw_Fool said:

Oh. But we're talking about false dragons. See why I'm confused about what you are trying to say? Not all of those can channel (the most powerful ones known to history could, but not all.) Remember Fain tells folks towards the beginning of the first book about the man in Ghealdan claiming to be the dragon and unlike other recent false dragons, this one can channel.

You know I had forgotten that, they even said at one time that the King Hawkwing was thought to be the Dagon Reborn at the time and he was particularly anti-channeling....  We take for granted the knowledge we have but in the beginning very little was really known about the Dragon Reborn by most, and what was known was wrong....  

7 minutes ago, Skipp said:

Moiraine's was described as a statue of Dark ivory of a woman in flowing robes.  Rand shiny green stone craved to a fat bald man with a sword. 

Yeah when I first saw it I thought it was holding a sword in one hand, now I see its just the hand...   either way, it looks like I think they should look, even if its not the same figure itself...   

32 minutes ago, Skipp said:

I was quite surprised to see the Angreal!  I wasn't sure if they were gonna give her the one.  I was very excited to see it, a little bigger than I originally thought but it looked solid and aged.  I am looking forward to seeing what they do with other Angreal/Ter'angreal etc.... if they will keep a more uniform look or more diverse.

it reminded me more of Rands than hers though, wasn't hers a woman in robes from the book?  either way the "feel" is just what I was thinking in my head for them...  

6 minutes ago, Maximillion said:

 

Look, rather like the 'old tongue' justifications, we can all dream up why it might fit. The reality it is doesn't fit with the books.

 

 

No the reality is that it doesn't fit with how YOU feel she should look, even if your expectations don't match the life she had been living up until the time she is first seen in the books.  

5 minutes ago, Maximillion said:

 

It doesn't fit with her character at all.

It's more like some Marvel superhero or fighter from the Green Ajah.

They are going to make her into some nonsense ninja warrior or something - I can just see it.

 

UM you realize that Moraine has been in the field for 15-20 YEARS by the time she gets to Emmonds Field right.  The entire point was she was away from the tower most of the time to provide distance between her and Siuan... do you imagine her ridding through the wilderness in pretty silk flowing robes with no protection from the elements or stray arrows?   By the time she gets to EF she has far more field experience than most greens, not to mention far more "battle" experience than most sisters period...  

Why does everyone keep saying things like this: (not gonna include Senchan in this discussion because they are an isolated country far away at the beginning of the books)

7 minutes ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

why in the WoT are women leaders preferred, female Aes Sedai at the top of the food chain?

In the books, particularly in the first few there are only two nations run by women (Andor and Myenne)  while the rest are run by men.  The AS may be at the top of the food chain bust most people don't know that, most people look at them as either mythical or things to be feared and distrusted, perhaps belonging to the DO as well... There are some cultures where Females have different rights and responsibilities as far as home and wealth go but only one where they fight as warriors (the Aiel).   Women are very much relegated to "traditional" roles in most of the world.

36 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

I very much hope its just Aes Sedai speak because I don't really see the point of involving Egwene let alone Nyneave in the mystery of the Dragon Reborn. You already have Rand, Mat and Perrin. What would be the point in adding Egwene considering it sacrifices some relatively important lore to do so? I really don't see the payoff so hopefully they're just having a laugh scaring people by making them think they're going in that direction.

I guess my thought is we 

40 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

I very much hope its just Aes Sedai speak because I don't really see the point of involving Egwene let alone Nyneave in the mystery of the Dragon Reborn. You already have Rand, Mat and Perrin. What would be the point in adding Egwene considering it sacrifices some relatively important lore to do so? I really don't see the payoff so hopefully they're just having a laugh scaring people by making them think they're going in that direction.

You know what, looking back at the story you can easily say that the best ending could not happen without each of the Edmonds Field 5 reaching the most positive end of their plotline...  And while Rand is and will always be the Dragon Reborn, he could not have successfully set the wheel to turn without each and every one of the 5...  So whatever version of the trailer you find it is not out of the realm of possibility that the Dark One would know that each is critical to it's downfall...

33 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

True, the fact that it literally only happens to women would definitely make people side eye it a bit, even though the men are actually threatened with it as well at times.

 

Which to be fair there's a fairly reasonable explanation (at least to me), which is that the women tend to operate within established power structures as opposed the main male characters we follow who all operate independently or as leaders very early on.

Um... Ok just throwing this out there but what if the spank the men as much as they spanked the women would that work....   Cause that's a lot of man ass to watch get slapped....not that there's anything wrong with that....

15 minutes ago, boldnbeautiful said:

You know that RJ created his world based on pre-gunpowder real world, right? He borrowed from many different cultures to create his Wheel of Time world. In fact, most fantasy books borrow heavily from ancient worlds to create their own world.

 

I don't understand why people can't understand this aspect of fantasy world. RJ incorporated heavily from the Arthurian Legend... he even said it himself.  He didn't borrow from modern America to create Westland... you know that right?

Shock lances, flyers... Songs that grow vegetation....

2 minutes ago, boldnbeautiful said:

DID YOU read the books? RJ even said himself that he created many cultures based on inspirations from the real world before the renaissance period. Seanchan has elements of Roman and Abyssian/Ethiopian Empire. Andor is pretty much the British empire. Cairhien has French, Japanese, and some other flavors. Shara has some Chinese Empire and Mogul/Indian empires.

Yes and what does that have to do with the time he set the story in?  He set the story in another universe than ours, but he also set it at the end of the cycle, not the beginning.  This is set in a post apocalyptic time in it's universe, at the end of the end times by very definition of the main plot....

43 minutes ago, boldnbeautiful said:

You think some Middle Eastern, Native Americans, Asians, or any kingdoms in the 12th to 16th century had anything similar to modern "time-outs" or "we treasure your feelings"? I am not quite sure why people expect some ridiculous scenarios from ancient world settings where people used to raid each other for basic necessities. THE WORLD WAS BRUTAL EVERYWHERE before the industrial revolution.

 

Ottoman Empire's Fratricide is the basis for Seanchan royalty killing for the heir position. They were killing their own brothers and sisters... even children in the Ottoman Empire's royalty. Not exactly, your "the communication is the key to harmonious society" way of life.

Have you read the books?  What makes you say this setting is in some ancient time?   Even if this was purposefully reset into this universe by Rafe (no evidence of that) it would still be set in the LAST age, well after us...  Heck even Lew's Therin would be in our (2021) far future!

The entire question of who is the dragon reborn was very much a thing in the first book.  The way RJ wrote the perspective made it a non mystery to the readers only.  It was still a mystery to everyone but rand and Tam.... And probably Moraine.   Of course this is the mystery they will push because it makes for good storytelling...    It's going to be rand, but I am purposely not telling my partner that because they have never read the books, I want them to enjoy the storyline as much as possible!  (Note: I am crossing all my fingers and toes, sacrificing chicken and ribs to the gods, and basically doing anything I can to put out good energy that this is a good series!)

5 hours ago, TheMountain said:

Not really, as nobody seriously thinks Egwene will be the Dragon Reborn. The issue has always been that the characters in-world should never even think for one moment (by Aes Sedai misdirection or whatever) that a female dragon is a possibility due to the major impacts on the lore and worldbuilding. 

Certain Characters for sure should never have that idea (unless they completely changed the mechanics of the universe, which we have no proof or indication of), and those would be the AS and their warders foremost.  As for the townsfolk, particularly those towns folk that have been nowhere near a false dragon in the last hundred or so years....  Ehh, they could have many ideas... Heck there was a bunch of people camping out in Dallas last night because they actually thought JFK Jr was coming back from the dead, and if that can actually happen in a sophisticated country in reality, I am fine with some towns folk in a backwater fictional town not being sure if the Dragon could be Male or Female...  

well if "cannon" then that shuts down this entire discussion!  Dragon tattoos and belt buckle....  

Hello all,

 long time reader of the WOT  series, and found this site looking for information abut the Amazon sow... loving the interaction already!

2 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

A female using trousers and/or being trained to fight and behave "like a man" is a lot different than identifying as a male IMO. 

yes and gender fluid is a lot different than identifying as a male as well...  Nothing intrinsic to a persons character/soul is different because one is male/female/trans/or non-binary just different struggles and different experiences that may lead one to having a different world view.    Not wanting to get into a deeper discussion on the difference between gender, sex, and stereotypical displays of each and how they can affect a person or their effect on a story, all I am saying is that Min being gender fluid would be the least impactful change. 

 (Kind of off topic but topic adjacent:   In another thread someone brought up the idea of making Galad gay would make the most sense (I guess if there was a need to make someone different) and that one actually fits in to the story a lot more neatly and cleanly, it explains his weird shift to the Whitecloaks that I never fully bought from someone raised in Morgaine's household...   )

1 minute ago, DaddyFinn said:

Obviously Rand would have to change too if they end up together. Why change any of the important characters in such a way? It would just feel like shoving some agenda to our throats. I personally never got any sort of genderfluid vibes from her.

Wouldn't really have to change Rand at all, I don't really remember at any point in the book when he had negative issues with her more masculine attributes, in fact if I remember correctly he kind of liked her in trousers...  Not to mention that you can hardly find a more "traditionally masculine" female than Avendiah (sp is all wrong), frankly only Elaine is particularly fem of the three of his loves.  All  I am saying is that Min being genderfluid (who was born a female) would have petty much no change in the overall story.

20 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

 

 

Things that would truly bother me:

• Degendering the One Power (no saidin/saidar).
• Making Min genderfluid or trans.

But I think both of these are highly unlikely. Is there something else that concerns you?

 

 

 

I think the first point has been talked to death here, but I hadn't even thought about the second point...  What would be the problem with Min being genderfluid....  frankly, imo, in the books she bucks both male and female stereotypes pretty consistently and is kicka@@ as the "weakest" member of the inner circle...  at no point would it really matter if she was gender fluid.