I do like how they have been using the different terms for things, like in the books. However, I think the books had it due to different cultures using different terms. Like they call something by one word in the Two Rivers but by another word in Fal Dara. 
I felt like that added to the scope of the world. 

I feel like some of it is too much in one moment, though. The end of ep 8 had cuendillar and heartstone mentioned in the same conversation. If you do not already know they are the same thing, you might be confused. 

2 hours ago, SingleMort said:

• ... For example I am left scratching my head as to why the horn was in Fal Dara and if it was why the Shienaran would not use it? Seems like it would have been pretty useful in the battle. Also when Rand just walks off... ? 

This is a good question in regards to how tempted Agelmar was to use the horn when he had it in the book. Would he not be so tempted with the ever encroaching blight?  I know there was a comment about it being for the dragon, but non-readers have to be confused as to what it even is. 

So, Padan Fain  has the dagger. He has clearly stabbed someone with it. Did they nerf the dagger?

The only enemies in the scene where Fain takes the horn are Fain and two of the eyeless. Based on the books, there is very little chance of anyone in that room surviving being cut by the dagger or the fade’s swords. 
 

Any thoughts?

6 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

 

Yeah I don't really get it either. Only thing I can think of is they needed Moiraine to have at least some semblance of a plan. And I guess yeeting the DR at the Dark One with a very powerful sangreal is somewhat better than just plain yeeting him?

 

I am curious if that Sangreal could be used by both men and women or if the WT just happened to have a male sangreal lying around. Because that has repercussions later on for both Callandor and especially the Choedan Kal.

I am curious how she even knew what it was if it is male specific?  Isn’t it specified in the books that channelers cannot recognize angreal or sa’angreal designed for the opposite sex just like they cannot see or sense each other’s weaves?

I like the layout of the EotW. I thought the set was nice. I noticed the Aes Sedai symbol and, when it cracked, realized what it was. 
 

However, changing the power at the eye into a sa’angreal does not make sense to me. Same item and purpose in the story, so I do not understand the change. 
 

Will they make all of the seals this same size?  That definitely changes some of the items in the books. 
 

I think what Rand did there was significant, but will non-book readers even recognize that?  

I understand some people thinking the circle of women channeling was too much.  However, Moiraine did some similar channeling on her own when they were being corralled to Shadar Logoth in the book. She took out hundreds of trollocs with rolling waves of earth. She was using an angreal, but the power levels may be comparable or Ny and Eg could be more. I am not certain about that. 

I liked Ishy's scenes.  I just think there should have been a struggle between him and Rand at the end.  Instead it was like a Spirit Bomb from Dragonball.  Use this s'angreal made by a bunch of male channelers to make yourself actually powerful.

I liked the scene and dialogue between Lan and Nyneave.

I am ok with the horn being there and getting dug up to keep it safe.  I do not understand why Loial did not do more heavy lifting in that scene.  Ogier are stronger than men.  He should have been able to pick up some of those stones.

Did Padan Fain stab Loial with the Shadar Logoth dagger?  If so, too many questions there.

The fades did not look good.  A lot of the CGI was not that good. 

I understand the problem people have with the female channelers facing the trolloc army.  At first blush, it felt like the all female scene in Avenger's Endgame.  However, you cannot say they should have just had the women at the gap and saved everyone.  There was no way for them to expect the power surge Eg and Nyn supplied.  I do think it was an overpowered moment, though.  And, they could have done this from up on the walls of the city rather than standing out in the open.

The blight was disappointing.  The seven towers of Malkier were disappointing.  I like that they were put in there and briefly touched on, but not revealed very well.

The Padan Fain password scene was not good.  It did not make any sense.  Why did they need a pass phrase?  How did he know it?  Where did the two ladies not recognize the Fades when they walked through the door?

As a book fan, I finished this feeling let down.  I have watched each episode at least twice and like them better the second time.  I will try with this one.  It has some good moments but it does not leave me yearning for season 2.  I will probably watch season 2 because I want more WoT not because they have done a bang up job with it. 

Perrin has been useless this whole season.  I think I like the actor and think he can do the part justice, but, when I reflect on his character for this season, I just see him lurching around with his mouth hanging open except when he is mumbling something.

1 minute ago, Chivalry said:

 

They gallantly charged on their horses to the fortress...where they dismounted, climbed some stairs, and fired a bunch of crossbows. I've never seen a battle depicted quite like this. Please fire the writer who came up with this strategy.

This was confusing to me.  Agelmar yells out something like, "For Shienar!!!" and they charge off on their horses leaving the foot soldiers behind only to climb up into the wall and wait with crossbows?

The design of the wall was pretty bad, too.  Why was Agelmar on the bottom floor?  Who was reloading the crossbows for them?

22 hours ago, Eelfinn_Ty said:

In the behind the scenes Rafe says that not everyone will survive/comeback from the eye. Rand and Moiraine are the only ones headed that way, and they can't kill off Rand!

FYI, here is his quote:

"Now we're going into the end game.  The stakes are real here, and not all of our characters are gonna make it."

Read into that what you will.

I also think it is a little early for any Cadsuane involvement.  She didn't show up until the middle of the series, right?

4 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

Nope. Rand is going to have his OP moment. It is necessary to the narrative. However they choose to depict it (personally, I think it will be Rand rescuing the others from Fal Dara), Rand is going to go ham. 
 

The sheer power of the Dragon is going to be something they want front and center. The audience must understand that the Dragon is to be feared. 

I think this is what they need to do after Moiraine's comment to Logain about his strength compared to the Dragon Reborn.

1 hour ago, ArrylT said:

I am going to have to triple check - but it has been mentioned in a few YT channels - and it seemd that way from what I saw - and once again shows how faithfully the show is trying to adapt the books - but 

 

(a) no one was hooded within Fal Dara 

 

(b) everyone in Fal Dara had a weapon close at hand

I have only watched Ep7 once, but it looked to me like they had torches and fires everywhere at night while N was following Lan.  This would eliminate any dark or shadowed areas a fade could use.

Is it possible that Moiraine senses darkness in him because he was separated from the dagger but the connection was not severed?

Rand getting in a little target practice with the bow?  Will we learn about ko'di, the flame and the void?

4 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

Many expressed this opinion. 

What you fail to realize, though, is that you can't just "make some changes" and then expect everything else stay the same. So you remove a scene because of limited screen time - and remember, they had to cut a lot - and that scene provided motivation to a character, so you can't have the caracter progress as before. Or maybe it put a character somewhere, and now you have to move the character in some other way.

Wot is slow, but it doesn't have the kind of filler you can juSt cut.

You call the changes illogic, but there's a rationale behind each of them. You can disagree with how it worked, whether it achieved the intended effect, but if you deny that there is a logic, you lose authority; you just look like you're talking of things you don't understand.

 

Regarding the oft-made comparison with lotr and got, you seem to ignore that those shows also were harshly criticized by "hardcore book fans" for "making unnecessary, illogic changes". 

Same as here

This is an interesting post, for me.  It is trying to look at the changes from a logical sense.  I think this is why some book fans are affected by the changes, the logic is difficult to see at the moment.

There was an interesting video linked somewhere, either in this forum or on reddit, where a gentleman was explaining the adaptation to tv in a way to consider some of the changes.  I did not have time to watch the whole video yet.  Briefly, he points out that we have been told there is a plan for eight seasons with eight episodes each.  That would give the production crew 64 "chapters" to tell the Wheel of Time story.  It would be adapting all fourteen books to fit this template.  So, season one is not an adaptation of TEoTW as much as it is an introduction and foundation for the series for all non-book readers.

(Here is a link to the video.)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7ujwHxJx0s

With this perspective in mind, I can consider that the producers are playing the long game with some of these changes.  These could be changes that will make sense later in the season or later in the series.  There has to be some logic to it.  We just do not know the why and where it is going.  For some of us, that direction is not clear so it does not make sense, thus it seems illogical.

24 minutes ago, LordyLord said:

Response to 6: This was a good smart choice judging by the Non book reader reactions.

The Problem with it is Execution.They have made female characters awesome...but some Male characters are forgotten.

 

The Biggest example of this is Egwene getting to stab Valda.... not Perrin

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think this is a good example, especially of a change that was unnecessary.  They could have had one or two WCs in there with Child Valda when Perrin gets loose.  He goes berserk, grabs an axe, and cleaves the generic WCs while flashing the yellow eyes at Valda.  This does a few things:

1. Perrin would get an axe to carry.
2. He would have to deal with the emotional impact of killing people with the axe.
3. The WCs would have a good reason to go after Perrin specifically.
4. Egwene would still get points from the viewers for standing up to CV and freeing Perring with the OP.

Heck, I am still not sure what the change in his character arc was supposed to do.  Does any non-reader think of him as a blacksmith or as the blacksmith's husband?  I do not recall seeing him do any work at all.

10 minutes ago, Dead Warder said:

This brings up a good (but obvious) point. At this juncture I foresee the majority of us will remain in our trenches save for a few defectors here and there (from both sides). This is a forgone byproduct of epic "re-creation". I can't think of any original TV shows/movies that have such division across their viewers of this magnitude... it seems more prevalent when producers/screenwriters make an adaptation/"based off" re-telling off some epic source material, especially when money and/or fame is the modus operandi. If passion for retelling was truly at the heart of the matter then finding another avenue of approach outside the heavily constrained monsters like Netflix/Amazon would have been the course. But then, funding for such an endeavour is always an issue, to which I fall back on that "re-creations" should be banned altogether... a very unpopular opinion of mine that usually gets me ran out of town.

To your point I changed to red font:  There are probably original shows that have divided viewers in the beginning.  However, those who are disappointed or do not like it will just walk away and not even discuss it.  The "re-creation" has a fan base that will be divided and dig their trenches. 

13 minutes ago, Spiritweaver1 said:

I am with you.  This is an example of trying to save money by not having to build a road system in the ways.  My grumpy based on this will be nothing compared to my grump if they decide to scrap the green man because the VFX is too expensive.  

I think you need to be prepared for grumpy. I can see him being cut because of budget, but also because he is not needed for the story. He will be hanging out with Tom Bombadil instead. 

The dreams with Ba'alzamon are definitely something I would have liked to have seen more of.  I liked it when he had the figures of each boy and they got more detailed as he learned more about each one.

I am not sure they have really shown how deadly a myrddraal is. 

Lan teaching Rand how to use the sword.  This shows the development of the bond between them that is important later in the series.  It also shows Rand's necessary development into a blademaster, which is also very important in the series.

I have a couple analogies in my kind right now for this juxtaposition of book and show. 
To me, it is like enjoying Dolly Parton’s I Will Always Love You. (Tha could be the books). You want the show to be Whitney’s version. 
 

Instead, sometimes it feels like you enjoy Jaime’s Crying by Van Halen and the show is Wild Thing by Tone Loc. There are bits of the original samples in but some other artist’s vision of a song.

Or, you liked the book Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. Willie Wonka was a great movie with some incredible acting (Gene Wilder!). I loved it. It it was different from the book. The Johnny Depp movie was atrocious to me. My kids liked it though. 

which will this series end up being like?

I have had to watch episodes 1-5 twice each because I cannot help but watch it the first time as a book fan. It is exciting and disappointing at the same time. 

I can watch it as a second time and view it as just the show. And have been ok with it as a whole. I have not rewatched episode 6 yet. 
 

With that, here is where I am for this show. I have talked to friends and family about the books for 25 years trying to get people to read and enjoy them like I have. I have talked to friends and family about the show since early summer because I was excited and wanted someone to share it with and hoped they would start reading the books. 
 

After watching episode 6, I will not be discussing this show with anyone I know unless they ask me about it. I do not feel like pressing anyone to watch it. I would rather they read the books. 
 

My teenage daughter watched episode 1 with me. She said she wants to watch the next one. That was a week ago and she has not made any effort to watch it with me or asked about it. It does not matter to me if she does not watch it with me. I would rather have her read the books. 
 

It is not that I dislike the show. It is just the book fan in me is not happy. I will watch the show to see where it goes and see those few things from the books that are kept in the story. If they pull it together with a good finish, I will move on to season 2. As of now, I am not sure if I will. 
 

maybe I will feel different after watching episode 6 a second time. 
 

I watched this episode once, so far.  It was as a fan of the books.  So, I may have been distracted by the things that are different and overlooked something.

There were a couple mentions of someone "taking the shawl" or when they "took the shawl".  I have not seen anyone wearing a shawl.  Was there some explanation for non-readers to understand what that meant?

I do not understand the buildup of Mat not going into the waygate and being left out. 

1. I did not see the gate closed completely with Mat still standing outside.  If they did not show that, the next episode could show him jumping through Indiana Jones style.
2. They did not explain how the waygate works.  It should not close on its own.  Moiraine would be able to open it again if Mat did not make it.  If she cannot open it from inside the ways, how do they plan on getting out?

If Moiraine and Siuan are meeting in the world of dreams in the flesh, that is considered evil.  Only evil characters in the books do this of their own volition, with the exception of Rand chasing a forsaken there.  (I could be forgetting another.)

Siuan being a dreamer would potentially take away Eg's reason for seeking the Wise Ones.  The Aes Sedai could guard their dreams to keep others out.  The warders had similar protection from the bond.

Siuan shouldn't have had to run away.  In Tear, they bundle up girls who can channel as soon as they are discovered and ship them to Tar Valon.  From The Dragon Reborn:

"When they find a Tairin girl who can channel, they bundle her on a ship for Tar Valon

before the day is done, with hardly time to speak goodbyes to her family."

The Amyrlin's murmur was bitter with memory.

2 times each, so far. 
The first time is as a book fan so I can get any excitement and disappointment out of the way.

The second time I am a little more relaxed and can enjoy it as the show and maybe pick up Easter eggs. 
I will view each at least one more time when I get my daughter (and maybe wife, doubtful though) to watch it. My wife and I have to finish Ozark first, though. 

Too many pages to this thread, so sorry if I repeat anything. 
 

The chair Egweyne was strapped into by the WC - did anyone notice the blood on the ropes and the grooves in the arms?  It looks like Child Valda was chopping hands off in the chair. 
 

The tinkers linking arms and forming a line makes me think of a story in the books from the breaking of the world where a specific, non-violent group linked arms and sang to a male Aes Sedai taken with madness hoping to turn him with their song and buy time for others to flee. 

On 11/29/2021 at 12:43 PM, DojoToad said:

I saw no clear superiority.  If there had been, all 3 would have been on the floor in their own blood while acting like the three stooges trying to get out the door.  Even if Thom had been an even match one-on-one, all that bungling, running into each other, and his distraction trying to get them out the door would have been the end for all three of them.  What was the Fade doing every time Thom turned around telling Rand to get Mat out of there?

I kind of agree with you a little bit.  I mean, in TGH ...

However, I did like the scene overall and the impression it will give non-readers.  I think Thom was misjudged as a worthy adversary by the Fade in both the books and the show.  That is how he was able to buy time for the boys to escape.

I think it would have been better if they had the fade appear right after the Thom killed the darkfriend and they decided to leave for the reasons you pointed out.  But, we would not have gotten the story of Owen (very important imho) and we would not have gotten the scene with Matt and the dagger (non=readers need some signs of the dagger's affect on Matt).  I am not sure they needed to introduce the Grinwells and then wipe them out.  

I have decided that I cannot just watch the series as only a WoT book fan.  There are enough changes that it can become irritating or off putting.  After finishing episode 4, I have determined that I have to watch the series as an highly educated (in regards to the background of the story) fan of the tv show. 

I take some perspective from the books and some perspective of a non-reader watching the show.  This way, I can understand some of what is being shown, but can also try to enjoy where it is going and how they will get to where I think they are going.  I.e., the ending of episode 4 annoyed me as a book fan because they changed some things for spectacle.  However, seeing what they are trying to do and how they are going about it, I enjoyed the ending.  So, for me, another turning of the wheel is probably the best way for me to look at, at least subconsciously.

I just hope this series does not inspire someone to pick up TEotW and then have them totally confused and give up on the book series because of the differences from the show.