Fano'Lan Redux
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Posts posted by Fano'Lan Redux
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@Fano'Lan Redux I like your "enjoyment first", savor the moment attitude. That is nice.
Cheers Wolfbrother31 - hopefully it's an enjoyable ride. As long as they don't try to portray Faile as some sort of domestic violence inviting victim, the team will get enough rope to hang themselves from me. If the promotion materials and episode 1 present like a particular article on Dragonmount, I won't return for a second episode. Either way, it will be fun for me in the interim.
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Might have something to do with the way they are trying to portray Tam. That his sword should look like a soldier's blade. Perhaps going so far as to make Rand familiar with Tam's involvement in the Aiel War. If the sword is the sword of a common soldier and the "secret" is that he was awarded the heron mark - stamped onto that common sword.
So while the picture does look like an absolutely incredible sword - it wouldn't fit what they're trying to do with the character. It would stand out and wouldn't fit the visual aesthetic. It would stick out like a sore thumb.
I also agree with @SinisterDeathabout the dagger. The change in position for the ruby is clearly to improve visibility. Otherwise the dagger is very similar to how described - especially given that we haven't seen the dagger itself, only the scabbard.
Similarly, Thom's guitar shouldn't look like the "instrument of a court bard." Thom isn't a court bard when we meet him. He is a common gleeman. Perhaps he has other instruments as remembrances of his days as the court bard of Camelyn, but he doesn't play them in a common inn for shepherds and farmers. That would be something in keeping with Thom's character.
The bottom line is: these are changes made to enhance our visual understanding of the characters not because Rafe has some sort of God complex and is cackling as he undermines Jordan's legacy (books he has repeatedly told us he loves) while the author's widow and the author of the series look on helplessly at the wreckage. The complaints just don't track.
I am going to enjoy my anticipation for the series each and every day. A little extra reason to smile and be grateful. Nothing anyone says here will deny me that enjoyment. Some folks come off as wanting to be miserable and offended that not everyone is as miserable as them. As I get older, I'm less and less willing to allocate my limited time on this spinning rock to those types of folks. If the show does not entertain me when released, I will not continue to watch but still will have added all those additional moments of joy to my days between now and then.
- Elder_Haman, dssharp and SinisterDeath
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As an aside, does anyone have an actual description from the book on what Tam's sword looks like? (Chapter/page number?)EotW, Ch 5 "Winternight"
eta: p 66 in my paperback
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I think it's possible that they will remove the dreams entirely because they want to imply that Moraine thinks that either Egwene or Nynaeve could be the Dragon Reborn as well. I could easily see there being a certain subset of the viewership who would take the whole "our savior can only be a man" badly without understanding the intended nuance with rebirth, turning of the wheel, madness, etc in the story. A lot of the marketing we've seen has mentioned "five young people, one of whom could be the Dragon Reborn." Now, that could be preserving mystery for new viewers or simply a bad synopsis.... or it could be spot-on (which imo would be a atomic shakeup of the worldbuilding/story). If they had the dreams for only the three boys in the beginning, then right away you know that whatever the Dark One wants is mostly limited to them.
Then again, one could argue that in this case the they could make all five have the dreams, but perhaps there would be pushback to that from somebody like Sarah or Harriett.
It seems like a lot of readers completely missed, or ignored, or conveniently forget the savior complex fatal flaw so vividly on display in The Dragon as portrayed by LTT. Maybe the creative team struggled with how to best portray that conflict for Rand in an accessible manner and just said screw the subtlety, here it is in digital print. Granted, that might not appease the small subset you've referenced, but those folks have an agenda they're going to pursue no matter what.
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i think in the begining it should be somewhat difuse in begining, you would still wonder whats going on but that is as it is in the books, and not having everything handed to you on a silverplate is one of the good things...wondering and guessing a while, keep you on your toes. Then later on its made more obvious for the reader once we know more, and should be the same for the viewer
I could see S1 concluding with viewers having only seen T'a'R before knowing anything about it from The Big Mo.
It's been a bit since my most recent read, but I think some doubt/confusion about T'a'R and the wolf dream being the same existed for a while ... at least in the minds of some characters ... so I do agree with keeping viewers in doubt.
Assuming T'a'R makes it into the show at all of course ... might be a challenge to present in a manner that's both engaging and also understandable to a broader viewing audience.
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A post on reddit discussed this: I don't think we'll get the dreams in season 1. Rafe mentioned them in this quote: "We have chosen to do a few places extremely well (both culturally and with production design) instead of doing dozens of places cheaply and badly. This results in many changes that have huge ripple effects (if you can't go to Baerlon, do you still meet Min? Do you still encounter the Whitecloaks? Do you still have dreams of Ba'alzamon"
The last line seems odd to me. Why would the location changes affect Rand's dreams? I think that Rafe attempted to fit this tidbit into his answer, regardless of the question.
Appreciate the feedback but I agree with the interpretation this was a list of things requiring additional discussion once Baerleon had been eliminated.
Maybe so or maybe not ....
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Success for the show as a commercial endeavor is a different question for me than whether I personally view the Amazon series as a success. At this point, I expect the show will be a commercial success and the folks within Amazon given credit for driving the project will be recognized as New Big Deals.
On a personal level, "successful WoT series?" provokes a few reactions:
- the nadir of my WoT fandom includes a substantial period of uncertainty as to whether the book series would conclude. The fact that we've reached a point in time where substantial resources have been invested to bringing the entirety of the books series to life on screen is already a big win
- the transition from books 1-3 into the epic anthology that exists today created some internal flaws and inconsistencies. RJ would certainly have changed some things if given the opportunity to re-write, especially the first three. It's not beyond my imagination to dream on a streaming series that maintains internal consistency better than the books and thoroughly envelopes me while watching. If so, success on a personal level.
- folks in my circle that are already book fans are chatting about the show and getting excited. If that excitement extends to folks that had never read the books but enjoyed LotR movies, that's success on a broader level
- unmitigated success means folks that had never heard of the books are subscribing to Amazon just to watch and I'm chatting about the Seanchan view of the One Power during the family Christmas party in '23. Culturally impactful status is available.
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These are very good questions.
Answers,
manOgier, I need answers!!Old paradigms wither everywhere, despite grasping death throes of the status quo defenders. Curious to witness how Amazon leverages this treasured opus toward their disruption of prior industry standards. Wouldn't surprise me to see more of a Labor Day-ish push ... all the cool kids will be Saidar-stans, Gambler-stans, Goldeneyes-stans or Asha'man-stans.
If it's up to me, the summer reading marketing would be humming along and visible everywhere by middle of June.
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Multiple Q&A sessions with Rafe and no queries re T'a'R that I have seen - anyone catch something I've missed on this? My thirst here is not limited to official releases : )
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That might be a slippery slop, because yes as book fans we’d be excited to see them. But TV-only fans will be left confused and find it an inconsistency when the cloaks don’t show up again. I expect the biggest rule they have will be to keep things consistent, which the books themselves suffer from.
Internal consistency is the one rec I would have had for the creative team. They know where the story goes and can set internal pacing based on whatever feedback they receive from Amazon re: likely number of seasons.
As to the cloaks, I've yet to see a special effect that could effectively replicate the cloak as described in the books. "Cheesy" warder cloak would cool my ardor much more thoroughly than eliminating them entirely.
Longer episodes = hooray for more time immersed in a wonderful story filled with familiar characters and universal/timeless themes.
Not surprised at the qualification re: Trolloc footage - definitely posted by mistake and apparently raw. Thankful for confirmation on multiple recognizably different types of those foul beasts.
Sure seems like a late Fall release, but I do have a question about the reliability of that conclusion based solely on the reported orders from book publishers. Not an area with which I am familiar, but given the recent anniversary release of the series, wouldn't the news about publishers be more tied into an expected successful franchise and the Christmas buying season? If the gen pop has only seen teasers prior to "Black Friday," why would publishers expect additional demand in time for the height of buying season?
I'm really looking forward to this adaptation. At first, I had drawn some lines but the more I think about it and the more existing work of the cast I see, the more excited I get.
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That makes a bit more sense. Thanks for clarifying that!
I do agree though, they don't need to show babies all the time. I don't really like the idea of Logain having a family, because it feels out of place for him, and too reminiscent of Lews Therin. I also feel like it would spoil his character a bit, if he were seen weeping for the loss of saidin, but not his children or wife. Not exactly a guy you want to see more of.
Greetings Asha'man Shar'aman - while I agree with your conclusion re: infanticide as bottom of the barrel for Logain, Kinslayer-reincarnated did effectively provoke a legion of readers to begin the WoT journey.
For me, the question depends on whether TV Logain will return for future seasons. The depth of taint-mania to which LTT fell would likely preclude an effective re-integration to the Logain role as depicted in the middle to late books.
From what I've read since the casting announcement, the actor has a big following in Europe and probably required a decent cache of coin to sign. That would mean either 1) a relatively quick and near permanent departure and maximum flame-out potential or 2) an established framework for the character's inclusion in X number of subsequent seasons. All things considered, I'm really pulling for option 2 and a consistent Logain presence.
"On the Road" starring Siuan, Leane, Min and Logain: S4E1 : )
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You do that by showing the manipulation, obfuscation and gamesmanship in the Logain story while simultaneously making certain that Moiraine's own motivations remain unclear. It doesn't diminish Moiraine's heroism - to the contrary, it ultimately enhances it by way of contrast with the less heroic Aes Sedai.
Don't forget their power; individually and as an institution. A big part of the "fear" the general populace expresses re: AS is the realization of their absolute need of women who wield the OP to literally protect the populace, and the resentment that engenders.
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Furyk "The Kaffiend" Karede could serve as soldier with a view into Seanchan high politics with a more intimate Tuon relationship long term. Methinks the Deathwatch Guard, especially the Ogier variety, will appeal to a large number of as-yet-to-know-they-are-fans-of-the-series folks out there.
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But what if the baby (or babies) are meant to belong to Logain? A plot that involves Logain killing his own family would be a great way to mirror the events of the Prologue and visualize the madness of male channelers. It would also provide a shocking moment to hook new viewers. (Like Bran being pushed from the tower window in GoT).
Interesting thought ... and more appealing the longer it marinates. Nice foundation for the EF boys' dread at the possibility of being the DR and everyone else in WoT World's fear and resultant societal treatment of men who can channel.
Maybe a quick intro to idealistic Logain, ready to accept the role of foil to the DO thus rallying followers. Next the viewer sees him in battle from a King's soldier's PoV and the loyalists get routed. A second victory with a little inside info help from Reds leads to a fretful King kissing rings, promising eternal gratitude on behalf of the nation.
Fertile ground for the introduction of Aes Sedai as unrivaled wielders of the One Power and also rep's of the NGO that makes thrones tremble and sitting rulers come when called.
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Well, sure. But it's also the coming out party for non-Dreadlord power wielding men. And the point in the story where Perrin essentially saves the world by helping to free Rand from the box. And where prophecy is fulfilled. And where Rand's impressively written dark arc begins. Doesn't it seem a little reductive to boil all that down to gender dynamics?
I love the scene because it is beautifully written. It is a masterful climax to Rand's first act. It brings about the fulfilling of prophecy in a completely unexpected way. It introduces the asha'man in a compelling, yet terrifying way. To me it has exactly zero things to do with which people have which sex bits.
Would that this depth of analysis proved the norm. 9/10 = it's the best b/c "Kneel ...." Thank you
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Be honest. If you came across this dagger in any other context, if you didn't know anything about the TV show at all and found this thing in, say, a pawn shop or a costume shop or something, would "that's a good Shadar Logoth dagger," really be the first thing that popped into your head? If you were looking to do a Mat or Fain cosplay, say, last Halloween, and you found a dagger that looked like that, would that really be your first choice, or would you keep looking, and only take that thing if it were the only thing you could find?
I'm not arguing that it's not "pretty" or "seductive" or "dangerous" or whatever other subjective quality people want to claim it has. But it's not the Shadar Logoth dagger.
Honestly, those scenarios are not something to arise in my journey on this spinning rock and consideration thereof does not impact my impression of the work done by the prop team. To me, what we have seen works for the small screen depiction.
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Dumai's has always been an over-rated scene to me and it's funny how everyone just wants to overlook the fact that it's the coming out party for the new Dreadlords, i.e. the dark power wielding minions of the Dark One, the manifestation of evil.
But "hooray" 'cause reasons especially that the head Dreadlord dominates the loathed women at the end and says the completely demeaning line that's a perfect line for the head Dreadlord to say to vagina bearing meanies who, through no fault of their own, have been the only gender able to wield the Power while maintaining sanity. So, hooray for the wielders-of-evil breaking free of their "repression" and putting those women in their collective place? Not something that impressed me when published and even less so these many years later
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How about the scene in Fal Dara, when Siuan meets Rand for the first time and he presents himself as Lan instructed him. That's a relationship I look forward to seeing portrayed (Lan and Rand). Especially before, when Siuan and Moiraine realize Verin isn't as oblivious to the world as many believed. I hope they capture the tension just right, with Moiraine and Siuan a hairsbreadth from doing something drastic!
Cat Crosses the Courtyard? Pretty sure that's the name of the pose : ) THE scene of this amazing series upon which I most often draw irl. Straight spine, loose limbs; apparently at ease but poised to move in any direction. Think of me what you will, but it has served as en effective mental cue in various circumstances.
The woman cast as Siuan blew me away in Flack ... If the pair cast as Rand/Egwene can hold their own with her, I think we are in for an epic ride.
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Very surprised by all the negativity. Nothing I’ve seen so far worries me in the slightest. And given that both Harriet and Brandon have producer credit, I have to think that they have some degree of influence.
Cheers to that EH. For me, the released material has only escalated my enjoyment of this extended WoT on Prime foreplay and encouraged my belief in the series. For lack of a better phrase, "the tone" of this latest clip works both independently and as a visual manifestation of the books.
Some of the complaints levied against what we've seen from the Amazon team require a great deal of speculative interpretation based on very small bits of data. For example, I've seen folks bemoan the lack of piles of treasure in the Shadar Logoth material even though we've only seen seconds worth of a stairwell shot. Literally. The close up of the hands could be anywhere and perhaps not even Matt (Insert shrug emoji here).
The dagger, as presented, impresses me. It's beautiful and dangerous and exudes seduction. How could the scoundrel Matt possibly resist?
Whether or not the dagger works for the small screen depiction of his growing attachment to the weapon (as mentioned earlier in this thread) is far more significant a consideration than adherence to the physical description in the text as I see it.
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Saw a Twitter thread about Rafe's participation in a live chat called The Dusty Wheel and some interesting excerpts emerged:
- This is actually really early concept art from the process. There's a couple of them that are very close to final product
- first piece of concept art for the whole show? Moiraine using the One Power! We hired about 15 amazing artists from around the world to just dig in on that idea of Moiraine and the One Power And then see what it looked like, and did that for a fair amount of things
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Here's a link to the new video.
It's not exactly a teaser trailer, but honestly it's kinda close. Feels like something more promotional...
What do you all think?
Love it.
No idea what it means wrt release date but I'm reveling in the growing anticipation. Any reticence to change I had harbored has been banished. My ticket is in hand, will be there when the ride opens.
Thanks for the link on the pics Elder_Haman.
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Thanks for posting that link, I love this stuff. My sound production knowledge/skills haven't been digitally enhanced so apologies in advance if I flub in that regard. Thoughts swirling in my head, no particular order (eta kind of in order):
- the whooshing sound does not relate to the dialogue nor the additional background noise but is connected to the visual symbol as it forms and coalesces ...... maybe it's how the production team envisions the chapter heading symbology?
- the clanging and raised voices sound like a "bustling Inn with dance floor" clip looped back to back, maybe some overlap ... knives and forks on plates, laughing/squealing serving women/guests and men cavorting and feasting
- Egwene and Perrin sound breathless and anxious not threatened with imminent peril
- I'm under the impression Winternight was not incorporated into the show based on Rafe's earlier comments
- the books related the reel dance scene in Baerleon, but I do not recall an aside where Perrin/Egwene chat about re-joining the festivities ... have to check the books later
Maybe I'm out in left field, but that's the initial feeling for me
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Yes. I should have made that explicit. Moridin is a special case.
Yes indeed and also a perfect vehicle to carry the red shirt Forsaken.
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Michael D'Cruz casting speculation out there from rednianintellince:
"In an unrelated note, we can can also confirm that actor Michael D'Cruz (Tyrant, Doctors) will play the role of Zahir in The Wheel of Time. The name seems to be an original one, but given D’Cruze’s Asian looks, we could see him playing a borderlander."
Anyone else agree that he looks suited for casting as a Shienaran Lord? Lord Agelmar would dovetail with the photos of filming locations that would translate to Fal Dara remarkably well - banners and all.
Would you count the show successful if it would get the viewership of Shadow and Bone (1.7 million)/The Boys?
in Wheel of Time TV Show
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I've had Prime shipping for years but did not activate the streaming service until I heard about WoT. Not sure what you mean by "Amazon's misleading numbers" but I'd imagine they distinguish between their Prime members and the folks utilizing the streaming service ... not one and the same.