3 minutes ago, whiskey delta said:

@TrippedOnReality do you think I wouldn’t hammer Clov as scum once I had the chance?

I don't know.  I was clear to me even before the self vote he'd given up, but idk if he's ever self hammered before.  It's not like he was going to be back before EoD given his schedule beyond popping in in the morning for a couple of minutes and literally no one was fighting his yeet.  I do think you'd probably want to put the nail in the coffin, but I don't know that it was particularly necessary for wolf!you to hammer and waiting "out of respect for people's time" would look ~better.  I do think if you were teamed with SD, you'd probably be more invested in hammering sooner rather than later, so there's that I guess.

7 minutes ago, Darthe said:

I don't care who teams are until we see the Hally flip and Verb gets his shot off.  Feel free to use his vig shot as a second lynch today, and we can make a fake vote for where that goes.  

 

IMO the teams thing has been your only focus and it looks wolfy how passive your game has been.  It doesn't feel like hunting to me.  

I mean, I don't really care what you think of my playstyle tbh.  It's how I play and it's worked pretty well for me.  And you can not care about teams, but it helps me work through possibilities.  

Just catching up.  Work was kind of a mess, we had a big proposal due today by close of business. 

I blast read the start of day and my initial thought are Cory shooting leelou makes the most sense here, especially with verbal not claiming the shot.  Darthe/Hallie slap fight is...something.  If darthe is a wolf, I don't think I'm ever going to get there, and I've felt pretty okay about voodoo most of the game, but I'll re-evaluate voodoo while I'm doing my reread this weekend. 

My PoE at this point is something like:

Hallia/Verb/AJ/SD?

But I think only one of Hallia/AJ,  not both.  I had them ruled out as a possible team early.  I also had Verb/SD and voodoo/SD ruled out as teams early, but I thought about what Chris said about trying to do anti-teams with knowing how a newer player with an unique playing style would play, and given gamestate I want to revisit those two pairings again to see if there's anything stronger disassociating them before adding them back to the list. 

Which leaves me with this for anti-teams:

AJ/hallia
hallia/darthe
darthe/voodoo
voodoo/hallia???

The voodoo/hallia one was based mostly on voodoo voting for hallia on D1.  There's a case for bussing in that situation, which seems it seems a little odd given the situation, but not impossible.  Verbal could be with anyone, but given the claim he's probably the better option for tomorrow which is annoying because he's where I'd want to go today if not for the claim, but it is what it is I guess.

Darthe/AJ, thoughts on voodoo/hallia being a possible team or do you think it's reasonable to rule out still? 

I need to get some sleep.  You guys can decide if you wanna hammer now or later.

Vote Chris

Just now, Cory Caboose said:

 

I think it's all pretty NAI. I imagine he feels like his inability to commit more time to the game is only reason he's being voted out regardless of whether he's town or mafia and that can just make you not care. If he had the time I imagine he'd be in here calling us all chimneysweeps if he's town or calling us all chimneysweeps & also getting us all to unvote him if he were scum

yeah, i think this is a pretty fair assessment.  Hence my comment about not being able to resolve himself.

1 minute ago, Cory Caboose said:

 

Nothing specific. I feel Hallia is relatively >rand V and I'm not actually sure she would vote Clov there if they were w/w and nobody was pushing her to vote. Halls is pretty reluctant to bus and in context that's a pretty threatening vote with little fanfare. Overall there are not many teams Hallia makes sense on atp for me.

yeah, that's kind of where I was at.  I don't know Hallia as well as some of the other people here, but she seems like she'd be hesitant to bus in general.

Cory, did you have thoughts about Chris/Hallia pair?

9 minutes ago, Cory Caboose said:

The wolf case exists and I've seen similar efforts from newer wolves (being very chatty, almost uncomfortably so, but lots of nearly nonsensical speculation of mechanics and probability in lieu of thinking about the players).

I have seen this as well.

1 minute ago, Cory Caboose said:

I wouldn't make any anti-reads on Verbal's posting today btw.

 

If he's a wolf the vig claim is more of a buy time than win the game tactic. Typically when doing something like that you've accepted that your future in the game may be very short and you are already thinking of ways to confuse town when people are looking for spew after your death.

This is a fair point.

*sigh* I'm kind of frustrated because I don't want to hold up game solving progress because of my read, but I also realize Chris probably isn't going to be able to resolve himself at this point (largely because of time).  I mean, unless SD is somehow mafia I guess, (but I don't think even Chris believes that and is only voting there out of self-preservation) so I think of those two SD is probably at least as likely, if not more likely to flip town.  I also pretty much only signed up for this game so I could play with Chris and I'd feel like a complete asshole for helping misyeet him if he's town (which I realize is entirely a me problem).

I don't think the hallia's vote itself is probably enough for an anti-team.  It was early enough where it could still be moved.

2 minutes ago, Cory Caboose said:

Tripped, any thoughts on a Clov/Hallia pairing?

I'd have to go back and reread their interactions more closely, but I can't think of any reason they couldn't be teamed.  Hallia parking a vote on Chris isn't super inspiring for teammate equity though.  I don't think Chris would want to be bussed.  

4 minutes ago, whiskey delta said:

Is this related to your read on Clov or something else?

partially that, and partially I feel better about/have decent reasons for everyone else.

Like, if Leelou is mafia, i'd feel significantly better about Chris.  the downside is if Leelou is town, we just end up right back here at Chris needing to be resolved. 

2 minutes ago, Darthe said:

Hybrid hammer is really nice with night chat cause you get the best of both worlds.  Idk, I mainly think it’s a QOL improvement for most games.

The first game I played with night chat was really odd.  I actually like the break at night so I can reread and collect my thoughts without having the distraction of the thread, but I can see where it can be hugely beneficial to town as a whole.

Just now, Darthe said:

Scratch this. I don’t want to bully you into your votes.  But I do need to stop flipflopping on your slot. Who’s your top wolf pick?

Probably leelou.

5 minutes ago, Darthe said:

i think he is l-1.  dont vote yet just to be safe

I think he's at L-2, but I might have counted wrong.  I think I have Darthe, Hallia, Cory, and SD there right now unless I missed a vote.  I'm also super not used to this voting mechanic.  95% of the games I've played are deadline.

2 minutes ago, Darthe said:

See, this I don't like particularly.  Everyone, and I do mean everyone, is more likely to be town than mafia. That's the point of the game.  You keep saying you can't read clov as a wolf at all, that you've never done it successfully, but this is the first time I've gotten you to clearly say you think he's town and it's because I pushed you into it.  I think it's interesting that you think you can townread him well but not wolfread him, yet in a game where you're not clearly townreading him you aren't using that as a tell that he could be a wolf, and when pushed you default to town.  Does that make sense?

The only time I've clearly ever town read him is after he yeeted mafia.  that hasn't happened yet, so I'm not sure what you want me to say.  Is there a world he could be mafia?  absolutely.  you asked for my read on him, so I gave it.  The reason I didn't want to make it is because I know that I'm not good at reading him before he's done something significant.  My approach to Chris most games is basically let him do his thing, see where it goes.  If his reads are lining up with mine great, if not, we usually try to hash them out.  If he's town, we've had high success with catching mafia and work really well together.  The problem is, up until we actually yeet mafia, it's kind of a "I'm going to treat you as town until I think I shouldn't."  Except the first game we ever played together, mafia!Chris has shot me N1 or N2. 

4 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

If you read back, I mentioned this is like game #5. 2 this year, 3 over a decade ago.

 

I know I self voted in at least 3 games, one of which I was wolf. Got lynched D1 as wolf. Longest I made it was D2 before lynch. Night capped, etc.

Username bias was also a factor in the early days. 

It was less the self vote and mostly everything that came before that.  the self vote just seemed like more confirmation from my POV.  But if you say you self vote as either alignment, okay, i guess. (but mostly, self voting is gross and almost always anti-town).  

Just now, SinisterDeath said:

I figure, my gut is more wrong then right. My gut says the Vikings are going to win the superbowl every year. My brain says that's not happening. 

As a fellow Vikings fan, I fully understand they will break my heart every year it's just a matter of when.

1 minute ago, SinisterDeath said:

Just doing some light reading... And these caught my eye.

 

@TrippedOnRealityhow do you know I'm always town? As far as I know, we've never played together, and my last game before Fireball was like, 2005?

Because at that point you spewed yourself town by not knowing how the game of mafia works, like at all.  Is it possible you faked all that? Sure, I guess.  But then you continued to argue with people over it for really no reason and then self voted, which again, mafia don't generally self vote like that and generally not in that situation, but I've seen an awful lot of pissed off townies, especially new ones do that.  Again, could you have faked it as AtE?  Sure, I guess.  But mostly I was going with the simpler option that you're a town!newbie that doesn't know how mafia works and got pissed off.

4 minutes ago, Darthe said:

Dropping in on this, Sinister ISO is a mess btw.

 

DO you think he is town?  You gave me a nothingburger here.  Pick a read.  

Yes, I think he's more likely to be town than not based on his interactions with me last night and just generally being on the same page with our reads most of the game.  But I've absolutely gotten crushed by mafia!Chris pretty much every time he's been mafia against me, so I could be wrong.    

Just now, whiskey delta said:

One of my dogs got out today so I’m dealing with that but I will be here throughout the evening as per usual 

RIP, sorry to hear that.  hope you catch the escapee.  I had a dog growing up that was an escape artist, so I understand.

Thank you.  SD, can you explain why you wanted it to go random over yeeting someone you thought wasn't towny or protecting someone you thought was town?

1 minute ago, Darthe said:

You think he's town?

I think he could be, but as I said before, I've never actually caught scum!chris based solely on his own content.  I have caught him in a sub slot before that I was already scum reading.  And the times I've felt 100% certain he was town, was after he/we drove a yeet on mafia.  

1 minute ago, Darthe said:

Seems like you've got a pretty good read on him.  

I have a good understanding of his philosophy of the game.  That doesn't always translate super well into actual reads.

Just now, Darthe said:

Clov put his vote on Leelou before anyone else did, and that was a day and a half before DL, and it never moved.  And when he did it he pushed dice, and didn't give a reason for the leelou vote. If I'm a wolf I don't purely ignore voting my teammates.  It's not a bus, just distancing.  But then his absenteeism combined with Leelou's wagon actually that taking off meant he couldn't easily pull away from it.

 

Not to say this is good evidence, just showing that it's not what you seem to think it is.

I understand why you think that or why you could think that.  I just know how Chris thinks and I don't think he'd risk a teammate like that unless he had support from another teammate he absolutely trusted, but mostly, I just don't think he'd play that way.