1 hour ago, bringbackthomsmoustache said:

Her more bizare actions after being raised Amyrlin can be explained with reference to her being infected by Paidan Fain - after that she was suffering from deep paranoia, unable to trust anyone and certain her own judgement was always correct.

I’m forgetting, what was her exposure to Fain?

10 hours ago, Skipp said:

 

Are you actually criticizing the way the Trollocs looked in Episode one?  I thought that was one of the few things people universally loved.

Yes.

Nothing is universal.

10 hours ago, phanooglestixs said:

Depends on the fantasy world itself in my opinion.  Game of Thrones was much easier to do than Wheel of Time for two reasons, the primary being the amount of "fantasy" in the world itself.  Outside of the dragons and some random mysticism that either involved strange looking people or bringing people back to life.  There was Bran's powers, but they hardly delved into it and it was honestly easy to come up with a way to translate that to film.  The Wheel of Time has a bunch of magic, cataclysmic power struggles, interdimensional travel, a bunch of mystical relics and monstrous creatures.  Much more difficult and expensive to do all that well.  

Yes, much more difficult.  Limited resources split several ways for WoT.  Almost wish they would have left the trollocs out instead of the 'Dark Crystal' muppets we got.

10 hours ago, phanooglestixs said:

The second difference comes from my own personal interpretation of the worldsmithing/storytelling of the two.  A Song of Fire and Ice is a character driven story, the Wheel of Time is a world driven story.  The difference between the two is the amount of interpersonal drama/conflict.  Humans love drama, that is why all the highest rated shows, most award winning movies and bestselling books are heavily dependent on drama.  The Wheel of Time did not do that, it is one of the reasons critics always call the characters too two dimensional.  They even had to invent a wife for Perrin to kill just so he could have some sort of justification for why he constantly struggled to think things through rather than allowing the wolf to take over, instead of the justification in the books where it was just because he was always the larger boy growing up.

And inventing the wife was poorly done.  He could have killed Master Luhhan who he had apprenticed under for many years.  Or Mat's mom who he had known since childhood.  Or even a random Coplin who he'd known his whole life.  Any of these would have been a powerful motivation to control himself as the wolf started to manifest.

1 hour ago, SinisterDeath said:

Speaking of crude, want to take a rusty cleaver to this thread and chop it up like a squealing pig?

That sounds like a sinister death...

🤣

2 hours ago, Lightfriendsocialmistress said:

Hi WOT fandom!  I’m new to this community and this is my first post. I’ve read through the series once, currently on LOC in my reread. Bear with me as I’m not experienced with forums and social media in general…please be kind and gentle…this may be the wrong thread and a bit off topic but regarding names, do the aiel have surnames? 

No.  And welcome.

1 hour ago, Elder_Haman said:

Fair enough. But then again, you didn't have to moderate the last iteration of these discussions. 

Correct, that is not a responsibility I volunteered for.

9 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

I very specifically said that this argument (to wit, the ethnic and racial homogeneity or lack thereof in the show) has been had repeatedly on this forum. Each time it comes up, it devolves into shouting and name-calling and typically the mods end up having to get involved. So it's best if we just move on.

We have many topics that are discussed repeatedly on this forum.

New people join and have thoughts, someone that was previously involved has a new perspective, whatever...  No harm in repeating the same conversations.  If you're not interested in having the same conversation again, move on and it will die organically.

But if someone feels the need to prove her/his/their point with another person on the 'wrong' side of the argument then they have no one to blame but themselves that we're beating a dead horse again.

5 minutes ago, Samt said:

I don't think much is revealed on the specific genetic mechanisms whereby channeling ability is inherited.  Certainly, there is a genetic component.  But we know that many of the red veils could not channel.  Since all of the men who came there could channel to begin with (I don't think much is said in terms of which women are used, but it is implied that the red veils have been reproducing in the blight for a while), we have to assume that channeling ability does not completely dominate genetically.  

Right.  If the ability to channel were dominant there would be a lot more channelers.

10 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

Not saying isn't proof of saying.

That's like saying "RJ never said Rand wipes his ass" as proof that Rand doesn't wipe his ass.

Right.  Neither a diverse nor homogenous population can be proven.

I read the tea leaves to lean homogenous.  Doesn't have to agree with you or the show - and that is fine.  If someone else wants to believe in much greater diversity, I can see that is valid as well.  In the absence of a preponderance of evidence we can all have our own 'truth'.

1 minute ago, SinisterDeath said:

And yet, not a single description in the book ever mentioned everyone was racially homogenous.

No, it does not.  But didn't say they weren't either.

7 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

Baerlon is where all the iron and silver ore comes pouring out of the misty mountains and gets smelted, before being sent straight to Caemlyn. Hence the presence of the queens guard along the main road, and why any type of bandit is most likely found along that road.

From Baerlon, it's only 50-60 miles from Emmonds Field.

 

You know what Taren Ferry is known for? Foreigners, and embracing "outsiders cultures".
Apparently so much so, that no girls from Taren Ferry were found to be channelers, compared to the sheer number found in Emond's Field, Deven Ride, or Watch Hill. 
 

Given the history of the region as a shining beacon of civilization before it's collapse 2,284 years ago, the survivors fled the region and may have taken upwards of a hundred years before returning to resettle it after the Trolloc Wars ended. The various wars that happened in the free years during Artur Hawkwings reign...

 

There's plenty of opportunity for the region to have started with a very diverse population, and with just enough migration of people in and out of the region over the years before quieting down over the last 200, that when mixed with a bit of classism and people clustering in areas, It's entirely plausible that there's pocket populations of ethnicity through out the two rivers, and that the actual towns look far more diverse than the loose scattered population covering the two rivers region, all while maintaining the strength of the "old blood" without getting diluted like the Taren Ferry's did.

Trollocs, Fades, Flying Cars, Ruined Skyscrapers, but damn, I guess having a village with people of mix ethnicity is just too crazy and far fetched for people to maintain their suspension of belief. 

I can see both sides being realistic:

• Enough isolation and intermixing that the population is generally homogenous with most people being a shade of olive to black.  If they were all Irish, I don't see Rand standing out all that much.
• I can also see Caucasian, Black, Olive, or whatever with high contrast between families and some individuals.  After all merchants come regularly, and a guard could get sweet on a Two Rivers person and stick around.  But the more contrast, the less Rand would stick out as different, because everyone was different.

Plus I seem to remember Rand comparing Elayne to Egwene at some point - with Egwene being as dark as Elayne was fair.

So as far as book lore goes, I still lean toward homogenous in the Two Rivers with most folks being some shade of a darker complexion - because Rand stands out.

1 hour ago, Blackbyrd said:

I just finished the first Amber Quintet by Zelazny and if you are a big RJ fan and have not read it I would absolutely tell you that you should put it in your list of things to read ASAP. Obviously RJ took from Tolkien, and I've seen people say he took a lot from Herbert but... wow did he take from Zelazny in spectacular style. There are more than a few things that will make you lol when you read it

 

THe first quintet is pretty solid as well. Very smooth series for all its mystery though I found the writing of the 1st book to be so on point and clever that it made me want for as the series went on and the perspective I felt was not quite as sharp and fluid

He also took from Eddings.

21 minutes ago, Sir_Charrid said:

Your original question was why no rust, the simple explanation in world is because it isn’t necessarily steel as we know it, it could be any kind of alloy, metal or something power created (different to the power wrought weapons). The beam would have been made 1-2000 years from now in a time of extreme advances in technology and skill. 
 

 Now the new question you ask is why this single beam has not been transported maybe hundreads of miles across rough ground to be used as a support for some building you think it should be used for. There are several reasons for this. 
 

No one in this age can afford the money it would cost to move a single very very heavy beam across the land like this. You would need a crane powerful enough to lift it, you would need an army of horses to drag the massive carts needed to transport it. Those carts would need to be reinforced in a way that the weight. A small I beam weighs about 19kg per meter. But the beams seem in that scene are bigger then that, in addition the process to make them “rust proof” may well make them heavier. 
 

So you need to build a crane at both ends. you need a cart that won’t break under the weight of the beam over the not always paved and smooth roads. You will need to navigate rivers, steams, rough terrain. You will need to have a process in place in case a wheel breaks or a part of the cart breaks to get the beam off, then fix the cart and put it back. And then you need soldiers to guard it all the way on this journey. 
 

You will need to do all this in a world where Ogier Stonemasons can work amazing wonders with stone and make remarkable strong buildings, I will ask again, why would a king pay a small fortune to get a metal beam across land to where he wants his big castle or house to be when, for the same price, he can simply pay a team of Ogier to build something far more impressive. 
 

Now you may say, get some aes sedai to help, if you could get enough channelers to lift that metal beam and help transport it across the land (something they would not do) then forget a financial cost, for that you are commuting yours and every heir that follows you to being a proxy of tar valor at the barest minimum. 
 

The fact is that economically it makes far more sense to melt down and reuse all that metal then it does to use the I beam for it’s original purpose. Add in the fact that will people trust a metal beam that has been in the ground for 1000’s of years under who knows what stresses. 

Boom!

Next unsupported statement from @Jsbrads2 in 3, 2, 1...

8 minutes ago, Kalessin said:

FWIW, W. Somerset Maugham in the introduction to the Pocket Books abridgement of his novel "Of Human Bondage" goes into a discussion of novelists "padding" their novels in depth. It's well worth a read. He takes on Dickens among others ...

I'm sure many of us here, myself included, found many ways to pad papers written for school.

2 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

 

Any changes that are made to the way that Rafe and his team are approaching their adaptation of the novels are going to be made because of A) external circumstances or B) internal opinion and/or discussion.

 

Contrary to what audiences would like to believe, they have zero impact on the creative direction of any IP unless the people behind said IP have specifically stated that they're explicitly seeking to give audiences an opportunity to have an impact.

Audience feedback/reaction is not an external circumstance?

9 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

 

Even without direct statistics from Amazon, it's safe to assume that the percentage of negative reactions is infinitesimal compared to the overall percentage of people who watched the show either as WoT newbies or as fans of the novels.

 

IOW, nobody involved with the show is going to make changes to it based on negative reactions.

What will they use to make changes to it?

36 minutes ago, Jsbrads2 said:

A compromised I beam is still far stronger than any wooden beam. 

No.  Or at least not necessarily.

Steel is stronger than wood, but is compromised steel?  Depends on the extent of the damage, the load on the beam, etc.

24 minutes ago, Sir_Charrid said:

So please I am not the only one getting frustrated, it does feel that if all that repetition has been cut out you could have either had smaller books, or, preferably extra story about Shara etc lol, 

 

I also wonder if the repetition is for himself, if he does it as a way of remembering the story he has written so far. But yes, I am on lord of chaos, which should just have a warning “do not start the series from this book unless you’re an idiot”. 
 

Really hoping the TV show doesn’t pay homage to RJ with endless long recap segments each episode lol. 

They don't have time for recaps.  And in the world of streaming, it is all there.  Have a marathon session or two before the new season drops, and you're all good.

13 minutes ago, Sir_Charrid said:

Unless there are plans for a sequel TV show and Amazon have said they need an enemy to survive the last battle……..

 

But I agree on a follow up read through there are hints at both the red veils and the sharan army, enough that on that second read through you can spot them and go ahhh knowingly. 

I still missed the hints on the Sharan army on my second complete read through.  Maybe I can change my mind on the third.

22 minutes ago, Samt said:

Neither the red veils nor the Sharans really seemed like much of a stretch to me.  Yeah, there wasn't much build up for the Sharans, but we do know that Demandred has an army somewhere.  And there was the whole thing with Graendel enslaving their leaders.  Not claiming to have seen any of that coming the first time, but it didn't feel like it didn't make sense. 

 

Lanfear being alive, on the other hand, is a bridge too far. I admit the idea that Matt came up with it and BS just ran with it had crossed my mind.  We also know that the companion authors, who are part of this inner team that BS claims agreed to the Lanfear survives storyline, did not leave much wiggle room on this subject in the companion.  Seems they could have at least come up with an Aes Sedai answer if they wanted to leave it open.  

 

As has been said, it kind of works as a sequel setup if that is desired.  But all signs indicate that no sequel is coming.  And it's not like we would need forsaken to be alive for a sequel to happen.  Lots of villains are still around and the world certainly appears big enough for other villains to emerge from the wings.  

True, there still is the Seanchan to deal/live with.  That would be the sequel I want.  Civil war at home while trying to assimilate Hawkwing's old empire.  Books and books and books...  Won't happen, but a guy can dream.

36 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

The Origins shorts are cannon to the tv show, and are book accurate.
They delve into the Ogier, the One Power (the two halves), the fall of Manetheren, The breaking, and even a certain tale about the greatest swordsman's sole defeat to a farmer with a stick.

Hate the show all you want, you'll love the shorts, and wish the series was animated.

That will probably just make me sadder.

14 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

 

None of the Origins material is critical to enjoying or understanding the story the show itself is telling.

That wasn't my understanding from what I've read on this forum - especially in regards to AoL background.  If it is truly just bonus material, then we can take it or leave it.  I watched some of the bonus stuff for LotR.  Some was interesting, but I probably didn't see more than an hour.  It didn't add to the movies (for me) so I stopped.  Other folks probably watched the hell out of it...

27 minutes ago, AdamA said:

Ironically, I think this kind of question is actually another point in favor of fantasy being hard to adapt. One thing these fantasy epics are known for is supplementary material. Simply reading the main books will get you most of the way there, but if you really want to understand everything, you need to also read the prequel, the cut chapters (at bare minimum, the one explaining what Demandred was up to), the appendices to the books themselves, usually something along the lines of an encyclopedia of the fictional world the author will release at some point. In Jordan's case, it helps tremendously that someone put material from his personal notes into a wiki. ASOIAF is probably much worse than this. George may have written more supplementary material at this point than mainline material.

 

In any case, though, the point of stuff like this would be expansion of the world. Done well, it should be inessential, but still add to a viewer's understanding and appreciation if they choose to watch it. In your case, given you've already read the books anyway, I doubt watching shorts that explain stuff from the books that didn't make it to the main show is absolutely necessary. You've already done a decade's worth of homework by reading the books.

 

Probably the Histories and Lore DVD extras for Game of Thrones are the best example of doing this pretty well. It was less than an hour per season, and nothing in there was needed to understand what was going on in the show. But it provided some additional context. It was also completely unnecessary if you'd read the books, as it's all pulled from there anyway.

 

Doing it poorly, at least in my opinion, is probably something like what the MCU is doing with all the Disney+ shows. It's impossible at this point to just watch the movies and understand what is happening, You'll miss too much if you don't also watch all the shows. And since they're not always very good, it is definitely starting to feel like homework and not an enjoyable viewing experience. Apparently, the new season of Mandalorian might be doing this. I guess Grogu decided not to become a Jedi and become a Mandalorian instead, so he's back, but that happened in Book of Boba Fett, which I didn't watch and don't intend to watch. That's a pretty shitty way of handling this kind of thing, making it so that a plot-changing important character moment happens in a completely different show. Having some optional extras that fill out the history but don't directly impact plot points during the main timeline of the show itself, is the right way to do it.

So this appears to be a trend for the movie/TV show arena.  That's sad...

1 minute ago, Sir_Charrid said:

I mean the one thing for me with the red veils was always the question, why keep them a "Secret" all this time, surely they would have appeared now and again to harry the Aiel or others. I know the companions etc explain they where kept as a "secret weapon" but you imagine they would have been found. 

 

Red Veils worked for me but Shara didn't.  There was probably as many mentions for each so I'm not sure why I could accept one but the other seemed like a cheat.  My brain is probably short circuiting...

45 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

Why on earth would you equate Origin shorts to Homework?

There are 6 shorts, for a total of 22 minutes of content, and they are worth a watch even if you, yourself can't even be bothered to finish the actual series.

Maybe there is a better comparison - just what popped into my head.

I already invested my time in a 'complete' show.  Now I need give more time (minimal but unexpected) to the homework, bait-and-switch, extra credit, treasure hunt, or whatever you want to call it just so the story they were attempting to tell makes sense.

Tell a complete story, don't make the watchers hunt for information critical to a basic understanding of the show.

As I said, I don't watch a lot of TV so I don't know if this kind of thing is normal.  I've never run into it before.  That's why I was asking questions as to if this is a usual thing.