1 hour ago, Mirefox said:

I think it is an unbelievably sad commentary on our society that there cannot be Platonic love without someone trying to sexualize it.  The scene was crude and forced and about as natural as if Sam and Frodo hooked up after Sam rescued Frodo in Cirith Ungol because, after all, they had bathed together and laid naked on the downs together and Sam had kissed Frodo when he recovered in Rivendell…

 

Sexualizing a platonic relationship cheapens greatly a relationship that so many would love and very few actually achieve

It‘s possible to be best friends with your lover and I get a clear sense of that in their private interactions. I’m not sure how their romance demeans their friendship.
 

Plus Siuan and Moiraine were already canon prior to the show. Their relationship was explicitly romantic in New Spring.

I would like to add that the vast majority of same sex relationships on screen are platonic. I would say that probably 95% of f/f relationships in media are platonic or familial. So what it says about our society is that when the other 5% gets rare and necessary representation, it can feel quite jarring when we’ve spent our lives watching platonic love.

2 minutes ago, TheDreadReader said:

 

I agree.   It highlights that their choices have a personal cost for them.   

 

 

 

I always find it fascinating how important minor little plotlines like Thom and Gareth are to some fans.   I'd cut Gareth out of the show on the first day. ?

 

 
I feel the same way about Gareth. But like you say some people really care about these minor characters.
 

They could really invest into the personal cost of this mission because ultimately

Call me silly but that’s good storytelling and no one would say otherwise if it was a m/f pairing. 

22 minutes ago, flinn said:

 I like it, but I wonder how that is going to effect the Thom and Gareth side stories.

They could still stay true to the books from here on. Minimise Siuan and Moiraine’s contact with one another and pair them with their respective warders. I wouldn’t begrudge them for choosing to go this route since the point about 20+ years of secrets and sacrifice has already been made. 

I hope they stay lovers though. Thom and Gareth could still be their warders. The overall story would remain the same. 

27 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

Alanna's dress tho...

Alanna knew they were about to be torn apart by the Amyrlin. Our girl understood the assignment. ?

4 minutes ago, Maximillion said:

If their job was to make an incredibly poor attempt at adapting the book then yes they are doing a very good job.

 If their job was to make a good TV show, well they have failed quite spectacularly in my view, but if you love it… good for you.

9 minutes ago, fra85uk said:

From Randland to Stepinland!

 

Honestly, Rand is not my favourite book character (Mat is my fav) but, if not the main character, is at least first among equals.

I don't like what they are doing in the show with him.

I really would like to see more of Rand in the next two episodes. I loved ep 6 but I want to see the mystery of DR’s identity wrapped up so we can start getting to the meat of the story. 
 

From a pure storytelling perspective, unrelated to what the books did or didn’t do, I think dragging it out this long in an 8 episode season was a mistake. 

8 minutes ago, Agitel said:

 

My first watch is stream of consciousness "that's not in the books that's not in the books that's not in the books." On the rewatch I can watch it without those nagging thoughts.

This is exactly how I’ve been watching the show! I do a first watch with my wife. She laughs at me constantly yelling “that’s not what happens!” 
 

Then over the weekend I rewatch it. I find it that it stands up fine if held on its own merits, independent of the books. It’s my own pedanticism that ruins the initial watch. 

1 minute ago, Arie said:

 

 

I have a thought on the Nyn/Egs with Suian. Moraine and her likely talked, but I think she didn't tell her that much. Personal details means getting attached, etc. So Suian made herself approachable. The smile on Moraine's face at Nyn's spite is almost hilarious with the vibe of "See what I have to deal with?". These are two girls who think of Aes Sedai as legends, myths, and to Nyn, parasites. There isn't convincing Nyn what side she should be on, but that her available allies are small and not so forgiving if she continues to alienate everyone. 

 

Even Egs, after her show of eagerness as to what to do next, if Egs becomes Aes Sedai whether Nyn likes it or not, how will she handle her situation then? 

 

It leaves for some interesting and rather subtle character building.

Ah I see. I think perhaps subtlety is not my forte. Although I’m learning to really pay attention to the details in this show. It does have a gentle quality to it that’s absent from a lot of TV. 

7 minutes ago, RhienneAgain said:

Ooft, if this was meant to be the good episode of the season I'm not sure I'll be back for season 2. It's not awful, but it definitely feels more mediocre with odd high notes than actually good, and it's certainly not living up to expectations.

 

Liked

• Hall of the Tower - nailed the look and feel perfectly
• Really all the indoor sets this week. I get the comments that everything looks too clean, but I think it's ok and works with the series. There is a charm and gentleness to WoT compared to say GoT which I think makes this aesthetic work.
• The back turning during the exile scene - really got to me.
• Oath rod looked fab.
• Logain (as always).
• Lan really had some great 'stony-faced' looks when he wasn't talking.
• Loved the use of the 'by the Light and my hope of salvation and rebirth' pretty much verbatim - beautifully done.
• The wee smirk on Egwene's face when she thought she was the most powerful channeler in a thousand years followed by her look of disappointment was a great, subtle little appreciation of her character.
• Liandrin's Taraboner braids in all their glory.
• Rosamund Pike really is doing a super job with Moiraine.

Disliked

• why were 'Siuan' and 'Moiraine' each pronounced 2-3 different ways within one episode!? So lazy not to get this right (or at least consistent).
• The modern phrases were awful and so jarring ('upbeat' from Lan and 'blow smoke up our asses' from Nynaeve...who washed people's mouths out with soap for bad language to add insult to injury)
• Lan's lines were largely horrific. His retort to Rand on their meeting was so off character.
• The CGI looks cheap.
• Siuan didn't quite do it for me. The actress seemed to be playing three totally different characters split between the Hall, her evening with Moiraine, and her audience with Nynaeve and Egwene. I appreciate it's a big ask to play scenes where Siuan would have held herself so differently but there wasn't enough of a common thread to tie the three together for me.
• The oath rod swearing was...odd. Did the other Sisters not hear Moiraine's edits? Was it even necessary to have her swear? As she can't lie, couldn't Moiraine just have promised not to return..? 
• Rand feels like a side character at this point.
• Missed the mirror effect from the Ways opening.

The whole series is just feeling a bit washy-washy. It seems to be trying to be all things to all people and isn't really committing to anything. Its not really faithful to the books at all anymore, but it's not it's own story either. It doesn't want to go down the overtly-sexual line of GoT but it isn't happy to run with RJ's (largely) really subtle allusions to PG-13 material stand.

 

 

Siuan is played that way to impress upon the audience how seriously she takes her duties as the Amyrlin vs how far from her personal identity it is. 
 

I did feel that she acted a little strange in the scene with Nyn and Egs but maybe someone else has some ideas about why that was. 

4 minutes ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

 

I have a theory that the guy she's meeting isn't a boyfriend, but actually 

  Reveal hidden contents

A Forsaken!

 

Or… hear me out.

.

1 minute ago, AusLeviathan said:

Okay I'll admit this episode completely changed my perspective of this show.

 

There are now so many plot holes, so many future issues as a result of changes and so many rushed or poorly done things that I couldn't help myself laughing throughout the entire episode.

 

I believe if I think of this show as a parody of the Wheel of Time I'm going to have a lot of fun watching it from now on.

Can you clarify what the plot holes are please? 

34 minutes ago, RextheDog said:

 

hetrosexual here, so i may miss subtle points, but....

 

can i ask tactfully, how do you want them portrayed? as far as i can see its tactfully done, i'm not watched M and S 'get it on' to get my juices flowing.......they are some of the most powerful people in the land, sharing  a love interest.

 

'on your knees' was a bit cringy, but surely we've all had a bit of emotion when about to ....yknow....

 

one of those relationships (warders) are openly bisexual, and the other, i honestly think is covert, not because of the nature of it, but because of the business at hand.

 

im struggling to see why either relationship is being used to 'score points'?

 

 

You’ll probably get a different answer from every lgbt person you ask so I hope it’s ok if I throw in my two cents. 
 

I personally enjoyed it. Cringe gif moment and all. I felt the scene as a whole was tasteful and not at all gratuitous. It served to show us just how much they’ve both personally sacrificed to ensure the DR is found and guided on their journey.
 

We saw them both let down their guard. Sophie’s acting was incredible in the hut. Her demeanour, her accent, her body language was totally different to what we saw of the Amyrlin. Rosamund finally showed us Moiraine relaxed, open, and vulnerable with the person she feels safest around. It was all very tender.
 

Is the romance necessary? Nope. But the tale of “duty above all” works better with them as lovers spending stolen nights together in the secret sanctuary of their little dream world than it would if they were just best friends. 

8 minutes ago, KakitaOCU said:

They are not, it's actually a bone of contention in the old days.  Why is it only the 3 men were Ta'veren, how is Egwene not Ta'Veren when she keeps stumbling into these ridiculous skill sets and situations, isn't Nynaeve Ta'Veren because... 

 

 

 

She essentially was aware but distracted and so didn't look.  

This either went completely over my head when I was reading or I just forgot. Thank you for explaining, I appreciate it. 

1 minute ago, KakitaOCU said:

Per your logic if we don't see the evidence we assume bad.  We don't know why Abell is a womanizer, so clearly Natti drove him to it.  (I don't believe this, I'm just pointing out that failings of assuming one answer when evidence allows multiple)

 

 

Or, crazy idea, people will talk up Egwene as being super awesome because she did it all on her own without prophecy or specialness.   Kind of like the book crowd does when the "Should Egwene be ta'veren" comes up.

 

 

 

 

Sorry it’s been a long time since I’ve read the books. Aren’t Nyn and Eg both ta’veren too? 

9 minutes ago, Skipp said:

This is very true, if THIS SPECIFIC waygate is missing it's leaf so only channlers can open it I would be completely fine that that change.

 

I personally was hoping that the CG for opening the waygate would more closely represent the books.  Like a Doorway is slowly revealed as vines move away from it and the door slide into the pillars or some such.  It ultimately doesn't mean much I was just hoping for something else.

 

On the plus side I loved the quick glimpse we saw of the ways.  It looked liked there was a constant rolling thunderstorm in the sky.

Same. I imagined it to be more organic too. But the big stone gate is a nice nod to the ogier’s stonemason skills and maybe Loial will give us some of that information in the next episode. 
 

The Ways look frightening with that kind of corrupted M C Escher architecture. Makes me wonder why no one else seemed terrified at the prospect of having to go inside. 

2 minutes ago, Skipp said:

 

Agreed, the Waygate isn't sitting quite right with me at the moment.  Maybe their will be a better explanation down the road but I was hoping for more since I saw I first saw this concept.

After I wrote this I read a post about Loial suggesting that in the absence of the leaf, they would need an aes sedai. So that’s a decent explanation and leaves the Ways I open for future use by non-channellers. 

Did we get an explanation of the significance of Siuan’s tattoos? I haven’t had time to rewatch the episode and wonder if perhaps I missed it? 

1 minute ago, KakitaOCU said:

 

I'm curious on this, because it's a common take.  But I feel Rand's gotten solid screentime and development.

He gets more screentime with Tam than Perrin does with Laila or Mat with his sisters.   
He stands up to the Trolloc and doesn't panic.
Shows backbone and stands up to Moraine for better or worse.
Genuinely tries to befriend Dana and we see the start of his issue with women.
Talks down the imminent violence with the Grinwells
Protects Mat and tries to draw on Moraine of all things.   
Shows rational thought and coolness under pressure in that once he sees Moraine is trying to help he's fully on board and accepts his mistake.

I think we have a very solid foundation here.

I think as a reader I know his importance and of course feel highly invested in his quest, which results in wanting to see more of him. Perhaps even disproportionately more compared to the others. 
 

I’ve even surprised myself a little because I didn’t care for Rand in the books. 

You’re totally right though. His character development is there but I’m just not currently convinced that the audience has been made to care about him just yet. 

This episode was strong. I enjoyed the change of pace and the dynamic between Siuan and Moiraine although I’m biased as I’ve shipped them for about 17 years now. 
 

Making Maigan first selector was a smart move for streamlining the characters. 

The problems I have with the episode are mostly minor. 
 

The introduction of Loial without context was confusing. My wife has never read the books and we had to pause it so I could explain. Hopefully we get a full reveal of his connection with the Ways in the next episode.

Like many others I dislike the decision to make the Waygates activated by using the power. Although this is not important in the grand scheme of things. Just a small complaint.
 

Lastly, assuming that Rand will still be DR, I think it’s time they give him more screen time. We’re approaching the Eye and things need to move quickly in the next two episodes. I don’t know if that’s enough time for a viewer to grow attached or invested in his quest. 
 

NB. “On your knees” will never not live in my head rent free. 

7 minutes ago, Pandemonium said:

on your knees....

When I say I went weak in the knees...

My OTP finally lives!

Oops somehow posted in the wrong thread. Sorry.

 

I'm satisfied with the plot and how the series ended as a whole. I do wish Rand hadn't survived as I feel it would have been a more fitting sacrifice than Egwene's. After all, Taim? Really? Why couldn't Logain die killing him instead?

I'm disappointed that we didn't get to see more of Moiraine. I looked forward to reading her and Lan's reunion almost as much as I've longed to read her and Siuan's but we got to see neither. Siuan's death was really the final blow and it's something that bugs me to no end. Siuan And Moiraine deserved to have a reunion scene. After all without their meddling and underhanded blue ways, where would Rand have ended up? Very likely on the daaarrk side.