4 hours ago, MasterAblar said:

 

I'm fine with the casting but that said... what kind of long ass generations is that?

I lost a factor of 10 in my math, 60-100 generations.  I stand by my point, but I apologize for my not checking my math.

On 11/20/2021 at 8:42 PM, 10g1k said:

There were illustrated books (e.g. The World of Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time, by Teresa Patterson, 1997) approved by RJ which showed what the characters looked like.  He also specifically wrote about the physical characteristics of people from different regions.

 

Here's a tip: In a world with limited movement of large numbers of people, it is very unlikely to miraculously find a village with one person from every possible ethnicity.

 

I fear that this show, like Foundation, has fallen victim to the producers who think they will automatically win awards by making social justice twitter cult points, rather than winning awards for making a good show.

You're quoting the big book of bad art are ya?  RJ did not fight the book, how much approval he had is another story, same with the cover arts.

Going off the text alone, all that is ever said of the Two rivers is a focus on Dark eyes and Dark Hair.  Which leaves it wide open for anything.

Also, your genetics argument is flawed.  The timeline is too small for what you want to argue.  The AoL was very melting pot.  From what I can see, so was Manetheren

That means it's been 2000 years give or take that Emond's Field has been "Isolated"  so maybe 60-100 generations...    Plenty of time for old diversity to still be in force.

Edit: My math was off by a factor of 10.  Correcting.

My wife initially wasn't going to watch it with me.  Then we sat down and binged all 3 episodes.

She seems to like it and posts on FB sharing stories and details more than I do.  I'd say we have a new fan.

13 minutes ago, Beidomon said:

The change in lore re gender of DR is an unforced error with potential major ramifications, and I’m not sure what’s worse: that the writers didn’t consider those ramifications or that they’ve embraced them (ha ha, the latter is def worse).

 

The “Rumors of 4 TV” like was idiotic. I’m less concerned about making Eg a TV. To be honest, the whole concept of TV was one of the weaker premises in WOT and basically just smacked of plot convenience. I’m a little disappointed they are leaning so heavily into this concept in the show. 

What changes in lore?

I gave an easy explanation on how Moraine was using the first oath creatively.  That aside there's also the reality that Moraine's knowledge is not the level of the omnipresent author god that was RJ.  WE know gender is tied to soul in WoT.  The Heroes know it maybe.  Moraine can be honestly mistaken.

Either way, the dragon is going to be the dragon.

As for the fourth Ta'veren...  I actually like the change purely because it makes her make sense.  Without goin into spoilers suffice to say that Egwene succeeds and triumphs at virtually every single thing she tries to learn and she does so in months when others take years or more.  Her being ta'veren would help some of that.

13 minutes ago, Deadsy said:

• Egwene and Perrin take their first steps down a different path
  • Not sure  - maybe Egwene channels a bit more. Not really sure what they mean by different paths here other than her ability to channel. Could be more wolf stuff too though.
• An incredible new power is unleashed on the world.
  • We see (obvious) male channeling for the first time

A couple of thoughts on these.

For the first, maybe the show will draw more parallels with the two of them and TAR?  Funny enough, I read the entire series multiple times and it wasn't until the final Perrin vs Slayer that it dawned on me that they have the same thing.

Same thought to the incredible new power.  I imagine you're correct about Logain, but TAR would be good.

2 minutes ago, flinn said:

As far as the gender issue, my only thing is, for it to work, and follow what Jordan portrayed in the books, the Dragon and the Dragon Reborn would have to be the same sex. If the Dragon were female, then the taint would end up on the female half, so it would take a female to be the Dragon Reborn and deal with the insanity, which breaks down the barriers so she could connect to her memories. If the Dragon were male, the taint would be on the male side, so would require a male DR to be tainted to go insane, etc. etc.

A thought.  What if a soul CAN be reborn either side?  What if, on different turnings of the wheel, The Dragon was a woman and got Saidar tainted?

Per word of god we know from outside context this is wrong, but I could easily see it being an interesting approach.

14. How will the Seanchan be handled?
-Show up for Falme then disapear until the season equivalent of book 8

-Show up in Falme and stay though in the background the entire time gaining power?

-Not show up until season equivalent of book 5-8 where they become directly important to the plot.

15: Who will sound the Horn?
-Same guy in the book, same result in the end.
-Same guy in the book, keeps it in the end to not need to introduce the second guy.
-Not used until the end.

43 minutes ago, TheDreadReader said:

 

I'm not sure that they are ready to show a Fade fight yet.   At the moment they are the biggest bad that they have shown the audience (other than the few glimpses of Baal'zamon from the dreams).

 

 

 

Honestly, that's kind of more reason to develop that fight a bit more.

But, assuming your take is correct, the book doesn't show the fight.  So we don't have to see it either.

But, Showing Thom, who effortlessly took out the Darkfriend and will have had a whole episode to show competence, have no ability to really hold back a Fade would build them up even more.

On 11/21/2021 at 8:23 PM, Ellyll said:

Perrin murdering his non existent wife isn't supposed to help, it's supposed to replace actual character development with an easy to manufacture trope.

But it's not replacing actual character development.

It's having the same impact on him that in the books happens when he, Egwene and a Certain new friend coming get attacked.

Instead of worrying over his fury and violence because he justifiably killed someone in defense it's now that he accidentally killed someone he cares for.

It also adds more weight to WHY he behaves in certain ways in a Certain future plotline.

On 11/22/2021 at 9:05 AM, TheTuna450 said:

I don't mind the Mat changes because (if we're being honest) Mat sucks in EotW and tGH and doesn't become the Mat we all know and love until tDR. He has basically no real character in the first 2 books and is completely insufferable. That works OK for the books due to the way they're set up, but the show had to give him more of a meaningful conflict early on, and I think the family drama is a fine way to do it.

This.

Let's be honest, do we even see Mat before Shadar Logoth?  He plays some pranks and has some lines and... Yeah...

Then all of a sudden in Book 3 he's really skilled in Gambling and has very quick hands..  He had to learn those skills somewhere.

Came here to bring up the gesture thing specifically.  I think this could even lead to a VERY rude awakening with the Children or another certain anti channeler group when they're fully used to dealing with Aes Sedai and then run into the groups that DON'T use the gestures and it'll be a very big shock.

As a second aside to the gestures, Yellow are not known for their combat skill.  It's possible she specifically was not particularly skilled in battle.

As others said, Master Luhhan would have been better.

That said, I don't see this as a shortcut so much as something that is going to help explain better.

TO leave terms vague, Perrin's struggle is generally "Will I become an animal and lose my humanity?"  and 2 "Is violence acceptable?"

In the TV show the catalyst for this is him being in a bit of a rage against the Trollocs and someone dies that he cares for.  In the Books it was him being in a rage and someone who was an antagonist trying to kill his friends died.  

I think the TV motive gives more jusitification.

Also, what happened to Laila in episode one gives a lot more logic to how protective Perrin will be over a certain Bird at a later date.

The title refers to Logain.  I would have thought maybe we'd get the Prologue and some reveal on Rand, but..  Well IMDB cast Lews Therin Telamon and he's only in the 8th episdode.   

I also would have guessed Bayle's introduction, but again, no casting.

Thom is only in last episode and this one, so I think the Fade fight is a given.  Along with the set up of Perrin and the Wolves.  Because there's more in common with Perrin and Egwene I also wouldn't be surprised if the TV show chooses to hint at Egwene's talent here as well.

So I have a few thoughts on this.  One is simpler.  Didn't RJ say he had pondered Egwene as a Ta'veren?   I know the idea wasn't new to me when it came up in the series.  Plus the way she pulls the Tower around her fits.

Moving onto the Dragon thing.  The Dragon is still the same character, the critiques I've seen have gone so far as to believe falsely that somehow this will lead to Egwene or Nynaeve being the dragon.

Personally, there are two lines that talk to this and I think we're falling for the First Oath in both.

1: In the opening narration Moraine says (paraphrase) "we don't know if he's been born a boy or a girl."  This serves a Meta purpose of leaving the chosen one unknown to newcomers to the series.   In story.  What was the context or Moraine saying this?  Was she explaining to Siuan and unsure of who could hear her?  She doesn't factually know for sure.  She can be 99.9% certain that the Dragon is a boy, she heard the Fortelling, but she doesn't KNOW.  seems proper first oath slipperiness to keep anyone who overhears a little more in the dark.

2: "One of you four is the dragon."  again, factually true.  But since this turning of the wheel Moraine is being more honest about that part, why not include Egwene?  Doing so keeps people from immediately latching onto "Man power bad"  that some people will rush to.  Plus it gives an at the moment reason to take Egwene without having to deal with the real reason taking Egwene.

I don't really feel like RJ left no notes.  Just think maybe no notes on her ultimate fate.  He could very easily have left notes showing that Cadsuane will become Amyrlin after TG.  He could also have detailed in vague terms Egwene's battle against the Sharans and Taim.  So it could have been the notes left BS and Harriet with a choice of have Egwene live but either be burned out or disappear.  Or have her die.

The Hurin thing is also a bit sketchy.  I know he's said it was Hurin that he decided a death for.  But then in a later panel he was very specific in saying that if RJ didn't specify live or die on a character then they lived with two specific exceptions, one Harriet chose (Siuan) and one he chose.  He then specified that he wasn't revealing his at this time.

So he may just have forgotten he already divulged it (Hurin)  Or he might be responsible for another death.

As Suttree said, a lot of this points at Egwene.  (For what its worth I have no problem with Egwene death, RJ's decision or BS's.)  Basic theory is that RJ's notes specify Cadsuane is Amyrlin in the end but BS had to decide between her dying or being burned out in her fight against Taim and the Sharans.

He didn't decide to kill Siuan if that's what you mean.  Harriet made that call.  There is one character BS was responsible for killing but he hasn't said who yet. 

I believe the original story about Brandon finding out that someone dies as mentioned in the first post is Bela.

Which is a sepate point from his statement about his having characters live or die based on RJ's notes and that if no notes were left they lived with the exception of two characters, on he killed and one Harriet killed.  That was Siuan.

I have to imagine No one really thought about Bela one way or another until she was placed in the situation she was.